Who still warranties frames?

wrote:
Good to hear. Even considering the harsh New England roads? Aside
from pedals, I can't imagine any of the low-spoke wheels many new
bikes have holding up. I'm normally a 36H guy, but figure since this
will be a road-only fair weather bike I can cut back a few spokes.
Still don't plan to go to anything insanely low like 16 or 20 spoke,
but figure I can probably get by with 28 or 32. I might even be able
to get by with 20, at least up front, but it'd make me nervous.

You might want to read this...

http://santanatandem.com/Techno/Sweet1607.html

(yet I still ride 32+ spoke wheels)

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

On Jul 11, 5:55*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
Also, regarding the local thing, I should mention that in my price
range I don't expect to get to be very picky. *There's a good local
shop by me that sells a lot of Orbea & KHS, and if I can get a much
better bike for the same money as the competition by buying one of
these from that shop (which is owned and run by a cool local guy to
boot) I will.

A *good* local shop makes all the difference, regardless of the brands they
sell. Unfortunately, it sounds like the local shops selling Trek in your
area could be suspect. I don't think you'll find that either Orbea or KHS by
default offer better deals for the same money as a Trek, but if the shop is
superior, especially in terms of how they fit you to the bike (and on a road
bike, getting fit properly is a bigger deal than on a mountain bike, since
you tend to ride a road bike in one position for extended periods of time,
unlike a mountain bike where you're all over it), then that's the first
place you should consider.

What makes me think I'll get the better deal at the aforementioned
shop isn't the fact that they have KHS or Orbea, but that they have
leftover and closeout bikes. They don't have a huge selection, but
often have stuff a couple years old still brand new for good deals. I
measured my inseam and calculated I want to be riding a 56.5 C-T
bike. I called that shop and he has a couple bikes that may fit the
bill. One is an Orbea Lobular closeout frameset that he offered to
build up with 105 for 1200-1500 depending on wheels and cranks.
Another is an Orbea Spirit carbon with full DA, a couple years old,
for $1800. That's more than I want to spend, and might be more than I
can spend (need to look into that), but it's a whole lot of bike.
We'll call this place shop #1. If I don't buy a bike from shop #1 I
still have 3 more options. Shop #2 I have mixed feelings about.
They've been known to screw the newbie in the past. They have a
decent selection. The bright side is that they're extremely
convenient, and seem to be very knowledgeable. Shop #3 is less
convenient, but more my kind of shop. It's a small shop in a small
town, run by an older guy who really seems to know his stuff. They
also offer a 10% discount to Nemba members, which is irrelevant to a
new bike purchase, but I like that they do it. Shop #4 is the least
convenient. They are 90% road bike, and have rides from there all the
time. They have clubs, etc. A large portion of the roadies in the
area go there. I've been in a couple times for small stuff (mtn bike)
and they seem knowledgeable, but they're definitely roadies. I don't
have much experience there because the main reason I'm in the area
bike-wise is to ride one of my fav. mtn bike spots, and there's an 80%
mtn bike shop 1/4 mile away (and 1/4 mile closer to my trails). At
shops 2-4 I'll likely pay full retail, but I'll have more choices and
a current model bike. I'll likely talk to everyone before making a
decision. Fortunately I won't have all the $ together for a week or
so, so there's time to think and research.


You'd mentioned that, at one of the shops, they didn't recognize a Ventana.
Sigh. That could happen anywhere; any experienced mountain biker or industry
person who's been around for a while will be familiar with Ventana, but it
might be a bit to expect someone relatively new, and perhaps more of a
roadie than a mountain biker, to be familiar with a brand that is no longer
mainstream. You could take my daughter, for example... she knows current
mountain bike product very well, but she'd have no idea what a Ventana is..
She'd know it's a serious bike by looking at it, but she doesn't get much
dirt under her fingers, if you know what I mean. Yet she's a more than
competent salesperson, and if she gets into areas she doesn't know about,
she's usually smart enough to hand the customer off to someone else who has
more expertise in the area. My point being that a shop doesn't have to have
100% of their employees up-to-speed on all aspects of whatever to be
competent. The most important thing is to recognize your limitations and not
try to fake it.

I agree, and understand. However, even if your daughter didn't
recognize the Ventana, I'm guessing the XTR gear and Marz Corsa World
Cup forks would have given her a tip-off it wasn't a worthless "no-
name".

On Jul 11, 6:14*pm, Rex Kerr wrote:
wrote:
Good to hear. *Even considering the harsh New England roads? *Aside
from pedals, I can't imagine any of the low-spoke wheels many new
bikes have holding up. *I'm normally a 36H guy, but figure since this
will be a road-only fair weather bike I can cut back a few spokes.
Still don't plan to go to anything insanely low like 16 or 20 spoke,
but figure I can probably get by with 28 or 32. *I might even be able
to get by with 20, at least up front, but it'd make me nervous.

You might want to read this...

http://santanatandem.com/Techno/Sweet1607.html

(yet I still ride 32+ spoke wheels)

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
* * * *- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. *(~1892)

Interesting article, thanks.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
If at all possible I'm partial to smaller companies and made in the
USA, but in my price range I might be stuck with big name and
imported. Trek is out of the question.
Why?

Why am I partial to smaller companies and made in the USA? There are
a bunch of reasons. I like to support the independent businessman. I
like to keep my fellow citizens working. I like the novelty of having
something that isn't the same as what every other Tom, Dick and Harry
has. I like the idea of my money staying local. The list goes on,
but it’s pretty much the usual reasons.

Why is Trek out of the question? I don’t like how they have taken
over so many of the small shops in my area, buying them out or forcing
them to sell only Trek bikes. I don’t like how 90% of the time I’ve
taken my old well equipped Ventana into one of those Trek stores,
they’ve proceeded to tell me how my bike is “old, outdated and
frankly, not any good compared to modern equipment” and how what I
really need to fly past all my riding buddies is this $1000 Trek,
which I can have today only for the bargain price of $950. I tell
them I like my bike and don’t particularly like Trek and often hear
“Oh, well if you want to stay away from Trek we have this Klein
here…” I guess it just comes down to a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think that's a Trek issue, but something going on with your local shops. Or it could simply be that, how can we say this nicely, perhaps you & your bike fit a profile (if you will) that is often looking for something new & fun, so they "target" you. That sounds like a bad thing, but it really isn't. It's reading (or, in your case, mis-reading) the customer.

Pushy sales people are annoying - I would not go back to such a shop
unless there was not other viable alternative.

Trek itself has done more to keep shops in business than any bicycle company in history. That's probably the reason it appears that they've "taken over" so many. Trek probably owns 4 or 5 shops in the entire country; the rest are all independently owned & operated....

Trek also opened up a store [1] just a few blocks from a former dealer.

Trek has also been the biggest industry voice for advocacy and IMBA (making sure you've got places to ride your Ventana), and has consistently been the company that has dragged the rest of the industry into the battle.

Trek's biggest advantage, the reason they've become the 800lb gorilla, is pretty obvious once you get to know the company. People stay there. There are a whole lot of folk in product, engineering, warranty & sales who have been at the company for over 20 years....

It would be nicer if they still had all their bicycles made by beer
swilling cheeseheads. And steel frames with horizontal top tubes are
becoming scarce in the lineup.

As for money "staying local" I don't understand what you mean. Trek doesn't skim profit from the shop; there's no arrangement where a shop pays royalties of any sort. Trek cannot even dictate the price we sell something for. What Trek *has* done is given shops the tools to make smarter decisions about their businesses, the idea being that more-successful retailers will buy more Treks.. It has (obviously) worked out very, very well for Trek.

What percentage of Treks are made in the US?

[1] Now moved to the former urban fringe.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
If at all possible I'm partial to smaller companies and made in the
USA, but in my price range I might be stuck with big name and
imported. Trek is out of the question.
Why?

Why am I partial to smaller companies and made in the USA? There are
a bunch of reasons. I like to support the independent businessman. I
like to keep my fellow citizens working. I like the novelty of having
something that isn't the same as what every other Tom, Dick and Harry
has. I like the idea of my money staying local. The list goes on,
but it’s pretty much the usual reasons.

Why is Trek out of the question? I don’t like how they have taken
over so many of the small shops in my area, buying them out or forcing
them to sell only Trek bikes. I don’t like how 90% of the time I’ve
taken my old well equipped Ventana into one of those Trek stores,
they’ve proceeded to tell me how my bike is “old, outdated and
frankly, not any good compared to modern equipment” and how what I
really need to fly past all my riding buddies is this $1000 Trek,
which I can have today only for the bargain price of $950. I tell
them I like my bike and don’t particularly like Trek and often hear
“Oh, well if you want to stay away from Trek we have this Klein
here…” I guess it just comes down to a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think that's a Trek issue, but something going on with your local
shops. Or it could simply be that, how can we say this nicely, perhaps
you & your bike fit a profile (if you will) that is often looking for
something new & fun, so they "target" you. That sounds like a bad thing,
but it really isn't. It's reading (or, in your case, mis-reading) the
customer.

Pushy sales people are annoying - I would not go back to such a shop
unless there was not other viable alternative.

Trek itself has done more to keep shops in business than any bicycle
company in history. That's probably the reason it appears that they've
"taken over" so many. Trek probably owns 4 or 5 shops in the entire
country; the rest are all independently owned & operated....

Trek also opened up a store [1] just a few blocks from a former dealer.

Trek has also been the biggest industry voice for advocacy and IMBA
(making sure you've got places to ride your Ventana), and has
consistently been the company that has dragged the rest of the industry
into the battle. Trek's biggest advantage, the reason they've become the
800lb gorilla, is pretty obvious once you get to know the company. People
stay there. There are a whole lot of folk in product, engineering,
warranty & sales who have been at the company for over 20 years....

It would be nicer if they still had all their bicycles made by beer
swilling cheeseheads. And steel frames with horizontal top tubes are
becoming scarce in the lineup.

As for money "staying local" I don't understand what you mean. Trek
doesn't skim profit from the shop; there's no arrangement where a shop
pays royalties of any sort. Trek cannot even dictate the price we sell
something for. What Trek *has* done is given shops the tools to make
smarter decisions about their businesses, the idea being that
more-successful retailers will buy more Treks.. It has (obviously) worked
out very, very well for Trek.

What percentage of Treks are made in the US?

[1] Now moved to the former urban fringe.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.


I can't understand how Trek has no commitment to their loyal dealerships and
because of this I do not buy any Trek products. I live in a small town
where there were two bicycle shops five years ago. There is only one now.
The older shop started selling Treks as their main line in the early 1980's
and I bought several Treks from them. Five years ago, Trek did not renew
the shops Trek dealership. No reason or explanation was given. It turned
out the other newer shop was now the Trek dealer as well as a Giant dealer.
Of course, what happened next was this shop only sold a few Treks and less
than a year later completely stopped selling them and now only sells Giants.
Trek advertises it started small making bikes in a barn. It seems they have
now forgotten the small dealer and only feel loyality to the dollar sign.

I can't understand how Trek has no commitment to their loyal dealerships
and because of this I do not buy any Trek products. I live in a small
town where there were two bicycle shops five years ago. There is only one
now. The older shop started selling Treks as their main line in the early
1980's and I bought several Treks from them. Five years ago, Trek did not
renew the shops Trek dealership. No reason or explanation was given. It
turned out the other newer shop was now the Trek dealer as well as a Giant
dealer. Of course, what happened next was this shop only sold a few Treks
and less than a year later completely stopped selling them and now only
sells Giants. Trek advertises it started small making bikes in a barn. It
seems they have now forgotten the small dealer and only feel loyality to
the dollar sign.

You know what they say about hindsight...

Trek has definitely made bad decisions from time to time. Everybody does.
Who knows what motivated the change you described? It's often dictated by
credit issues; we benefit greatly from dealers being in "credit jail"
because hard-to-get product frequently becomes available to dealers who are
better at managing their resources.

We had a rather severe run-in with Trek ourselves maybe 15 years ago, and
it, too, involved opening up a nearby dealer (a larger, at that time,
multi-store dealer that had moved into our area). To say there was a chill
in our relationship would be an understatement. Eventually we came to terms,
and in the end, that multi-store chain ended up closing all but one of their
stores. Such a mistake is not likely to happen in our territory ever again,
but it did happen. Nobody's perfect. People screw up. One still needs to
look at the bigger picture though. And Trek still does a very good job in
that regard.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Neal" wrote in message
...

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
If at all possible I'm partial to smaller companies and made in the
USA, but in my price range I might be stuck with big name and
imported. Trek is out of the question.
Why?

Why am I partial to smaller companies and made in the USA? There are
a bunch of reasons. I like to support the independent businessman. I
like to keep my fellow citizens working. I like the novelty of having
something that isn't the same as what every other Tom, Dick and Harry
has. I like the idea of my money staying local. The list goes on,
but it’s pretty much the usual reasons.

Why is Trek out of the question? I don’t like how they have taken
over so many of the small shops in my area, buying them out or forcing
them to sell only Trek bikes. I don’t like how 90% of the time I’ve
taken my old well equipped Ventana into one of those Trek stores,
they’ve proceeded to tell me how my bike is “old, outdated and
frankly, not any good compared to modern equipment” and how what I
really need to fly past all my riding buddies is this $1000 Trek,
which I can have today only for the bargain price of $950. I tell
them I like my bike and don’t particularly like Trek and often hear
“Oh, well if you want to stay away from Trek we have this Klein
here…” I guess it just comes down to a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think that's a Trek issue, but something going on with your
local shops. Or it could simply be that, how can we say this nicely,
perhaps you & your bike fit a profile (if you will) that is often
looking for something new & fun, so they "target" you. That sounds like
a bad thing, but it really isn't. It's reading (or, in your case,
mis-reading) the customer.

Pushy sales people are annoying - I would not go back to such a shop
unless there was not other viable alternative.

Trek itself has done more to keep shops in business than any bicycle
company in history. That's probably the reason it appears that they've
"taken over" so many. Trek probably owns 4 or 5 shops in the entire
country; the rest are all independently owned & operated....

Trek also opened up a store [1] just a few blocks from a former dealer.

Trek has also been the biggest industry voice for advocacy and IMBA
(making sure you've got places to ride your Ventana), and has
consistently been the company that has dragged the rest of the industry
into the battle. Trek's biggest advantage, the reason they've become the
800lb gorilla, is pretty obvious once you get to know the company.
People stay there. There are a whole lot of folk in product,
engineering, warranty & sales who have been at the company for over 20
years....

It would be nicer if they still had all their bicycles made by beer
swilling cheeseheads. And steel frames with horizontal top tubes are
becoming scarce in the lineup.

As for money "staying local" I don't understand what you mean. Trek
doesn't skim profit from the shop; there's no arrangement where a shop
pays royalties of any sort. Trek cannot even dictate the price we sell
something for. What Trek *has* done is given shops the tools to make
smarter decisions about their businesses, the idea being that
more-successful retailers will buy more Treks.. It has (obviously)
worked out very, very well for Trek.

What percentage of Treks are made in the US?

[1] Now moved to the former urban fringe.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.


I can't understand how Trek has no commitment to their loyal dealerships
and because of this I do not buy any Trek products. I live in a small
town where there were two bicycle shops five years ago. There is only one
now. The older shop started selling Treks as their main line in the early
1980's and I bought several Treks from them. Five years ago, Trek did not
renew the shops Trek dealership. No reason or explanation was given. It
turned out the other newer shop was now the Trek dealer as well as a Giant
dealer. Of course, what happened next was this shop only sold a few Treks
and less than a year later completely stopped selling them and now only
sells Giants. Trek advertises it started small making bikes in a barn. It
seems they have now forgotten the small dealer and only feel loyality to
the dollar sign.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:35:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
Anyone who knows what companies still warranty frames
(and stand behind it) as well as specific suggestions are welcome.


Fuji replaced a frame for me a year ago, no questions asked. They
didn't replace the fork, so it doesn't match, but I choose to regard
the result as a bike with character.

Pat

Email address works as is.

On Jul 11, 2:13*am, Chalo wrote:

Cannondale has been very good to me. *I've bought two new frames-- one
MTB, one touring-- since 1987. *I have owned seven new frames total.
Two of them were replaced at reduced cost under their crash
replacement program, and three replaced under the lifetime warranty.
I own another Cannondale frame that I bought used, which is therefore
not covered under warranty.

Chalo

I'll second Chalo on the C-dale. I'm on my second C-dale touring
frame. The first cracked after 12 years or so and it was replaced no
questions asked.

I've also got a Litespeed (05 classic) and the frame is warranted for
life, but I haven't had to make a claim. I registered it when I bought
it.