Two finger, three finger, and four finger brake levers.

What is the advantage of short brake levers?

My DaHon folder came with four finger brake levers. One broke a few
years ago and I bought a set of brake levers, just to get by, from the
nearest shop (the Caltrain Bike Station in San Francisco). At the time,
I didn't realize that brake levers came in lengths measured by the
number of fingers that would fit on them.

I ended up replacing the levers again, with a set of Tektro CL530-RS
four finger levers
https://www.performancebike.com/tektro-cl530rs-linear-pull-brake-levers-black-silver-cl530-rs-blk-sil/p304929.

Now on my son's old bike which I've expropriated as my around town bike,
I found that the levers are also annoyingly short.

So why are most levers so short? Is it a weight issue?

On 26/11/2019 19:34, sms wrote:
What is the advantage of short brake levers?

My DaHon folder came with four finger brake levers. One broke a few
years ago and I bought a set of brake levers, just to get by, from
the nearest shop (the Caltrain Bike Station in San Francisco). At the
time, I didn't realize that brake levers came in lengths measured by
the number of fingers that would fit on them.

I ended up replacing the levers again, with a set of Tektro CL530-RS
four finger levers
https://www.performancebike.com/tektro-cl530rs-linear-pull-brake-levers-black-silver-cl530-rs-blk-sil/p304929.



Now on my son's old bike which I've expropriated as my around town
bike, I found that the levers are also annoyingly short.

So why are most levers so short? Is it a weight issue?

You can maintain control of the bars while braking. Not much use on my
commute to work, so I changed the 2 fingers for 4[1], but if I were
following the force of gravity[2] I might care about my grip on the
handlebars more.


[1] And ski gloves turn 2 fingers into a bit under 1 :-(
[2] Well, more following a straight line in a geodesic space-time curve.

On 11/26/2019 1:58 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 26/11/2019 19:34, sms wrote:
What is the advantage of short brake levers?

My DaHon folder came with four finger brake levers. One broke a few
years ago and I bought a set of brake levers, just to get by, from
the nearest shop (the Caltrain Bike Station in San Francisco). At the
time, I didn't realize that brake levers came in lengths measured by
the number of fingers that would fit on them.

I ended up replacing the levers again, with a set of Tektro CL530-RS
Â*four finger levers
https://www.performancebike.com/tektro-cl530rs-linear-pull-brake-levers-black-silver-cl530-rs-blk-sil/p304929.




Now on my son's old bike which I've expropriated as my around town
bike, I found that the levers are also annoyingly short.

So why are most levers so short? Is it a weight issue?

You can maintain control of the bars while braking.Â* Not much use on my
commute to work, so I changed the 2 fingers for 4[1], but if I were
following the force of gravity[2] I might care about my grip on the
handlebars more.

I wonder if its also a reaction to the increasing mechanical advantage
of the brake sets themselves, from center pull or sidepull through dual
pivot, V-brakes and now discs. Each step seemed to give more brake force
for a given lever pull. I've seen someone go over the bars from
squeezing too hard on dual-pivot brake levers. Perhaps short levers help
to limit brake force.

Imagine a hard four-finger grip on a disc brake lever. Seems it would
generate far more brake force than anyone could use, except perhaps on a
loaded cargo bike.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 26/11/2019 20:19, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/26/2019 1:58 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 26/11/2019 19:34, sms wrote:
What is the advantage of short brake levers?

My DaHon folder came with four finger brake levers. One broke a few
years ago and I bought a set of brake levers, just to get by, from
the nearest shop (the Caltrain Bike Station in San Francisco). At the
time, I didn't realize that brake levers came in lengths measured by
the number of fingers that would fit on them.

I ended up replacing the levers again, with a set of Tektro CL530-RS
Â*four finger levers
https://www.performancebike.com/tektro-cl530rs-linear-pull-brake-levers-black-silver-cl530-rs-blk-sil/p304929.




Now on my son's old bike which I've expropriated as my around town
bike, I found that the levers are also annoyingly short.

So why are most levers so short? Is it a weight issue?

You can maintain control of the bars while braking.Â* Not much use on
my commute to work, so I changed the 2 fingers for 4[1], but if I were
following the force of gravity[2] I might care about my grip on the
handlebars more.

I wonder if its also a reaction to the increasing mechanical advantage
of the brake sets themselves, from center pull or sidepull through dual
pivot, V-brakes and now discs. Each step seemed to give more brake force
for a given lever pull. I've seen someone go over the bars from
squeezing too hard on dual-pivot brake levers. Perhaps short levers help
to limit brake force.

Imagine a hard four-finger grip on a disc brake lever. Seems it would
generate far more brake force than anyone could use, except perhaps on a
loaded cargo bike.

raises hand Yep, MT7s will stop a Harry vs Larry on a dime. Alas the
rider tends to obey the laws of physics...

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 7:45:26 PM UTC, Tosspot wrote:

raises hand Yep, MT7s will stop a Harry vs Larry on a dime. Alas the
rider tends to obey the laws of physics...

Yup, and that's one of the things that are wrong with them.

I'm sure disc brakes and modern Shimano roller brakes have a death grip far greater than the Magura Hydraulic rim brakes I like better, but in all instances known to physics, actual stopping power is at the mercy of the friction between the tyre and road surface. Still, a skid in many circumstances would merciful, as offering an opportunity to put a foot down and save yourself the inconvenience of a face-plant.

Besides my bike with the rim hydraulics, I have bikes with disc brakes and roller brakes, and a bike with a disc in front and a roller in the rear (with which, if one can bothered, it is possible to perform a manner of ABS braking).

Almost all my rides are social, in that I rarely ride alone, and we talk as we ride along. Anyway, I'm an intellectual: my mind is generally elsewhere than on mere physical activity. So I've taken a couple of face plants when my grip switched the front disc or roller on too suddenly and too hard. After that I deliberately specified the Magura set with the biggest reservoir and therefore the limpest response. In ten years with these beautifully progressive brakes, I haven't had another faceplant, nor has there been a single case where the brakes failed to stop me in good time. I didn't change my riding style -- the last of the late brakers -- just the type of brakes. Note that at the same time I went over from 37/38mm high inflation tyres to 60mm low pressure balloons which have a much bigger contact area and thus intrinsically greater stopping ability which, logically, fights my intention of a more progressive stop. In practice, the fat tackies appear to aid the progressiveness of the stop: the process just feels smoother. It seems to me possible that the soft balloons take up the power-dissipation squat under braking much better than high pressure tyres do.

I'll never go back to small discs (the rim is itself a huge disc) or roller brakes, because they simply are not progressive enough for my riding style..

Andre Jute
Don't bring me components, bring me a system

sms, 2019-11-26 19:34+0100:
So why are most levers so short? Is it a weight issue?

I think it is because at some point, people realized they did not need
to use all their fingers to brake. When I was a kid, I remember using
some old bicycle, that were probably poorly maintained, where you really
needed to use all the fingers to provide enough force to brake not so
efficiently. These brake levers were also not ergonomic at all, and were
painful to use.

Anyway, the cantilever, and now the direct-pull brakes, can be actionned
with very little force, so there is no real need to use all the fingers.
Since using only two fingers allows you to keep the other ones on the
handle for a better grip, I personally find two-finger levers
preferable.

--
Tanguy

On Friday, November 29, 2019 at 8:45:42 AM UTC-8, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
sms, 2019-11-26 19:34+0100:
So why are most levers so short? Is it a weight issue?

I think it is because at some point, people realized they did not need
to use all their fingers to brake. When I was a kid, I remember using
some old bicycle, that were probably poorly maintained, where you really
needed to use all the fingers to provide enough force to brake not so
efficiently. These brake levers were also not ergonomic at all, and were
painful to use.

Anyway, the cantilever, and now the direct-pull brakes, can be actionned
with very little force, so there is no real need to use all the fingers.
Since using only two fingers allows you to keep the other ones on the
handle for a better grip, I personally find two-finger levers
preferable.

--
Tanguy

I have used one finger that caused many people to stop.