cottered cranks

My commuter bike is a Peugeot UO8. One of the few original parts on it
is the cottered crankset.

Now I remember why cotterless cranks became popular. I spent hours
yesterday overhauling the bottom bracket. It was making a horrible
clatter every time I put pressure on the right pedal. I switched
pedals to make sure it wasn't the pedals, and it wasn't: the noise
persisted.

Getting one of the cotter pins out was a royal pain. I supported the
crank with a heavy gauge bar while banging with a hammer and punch. I
sprayed WD40 in. I banged and banged for a good long time. Eventually,
I drilled down the middle of the cotter pin to remove some of the
mass. This seems to have done the trick. I resumed banging and
eventually, the cotter pin came out.

I can't exactly tell what the clatter was. I had suspected perhaps a
ball bearing had broken, but it seems not. The right side cup and
balls were discolored, indicating small scale damage. Perhaps the
clatter was the sound of the balls getting stuck and moving suddenly.
The grease had become a very stiff and sticky glue.

Reassembling the crank wasn't as hard, but it's not what I would call
easy, either. Of course, the replacement cotter pins didn't fit. I had
to file them down. My vice isn't mounted currently, so I had to use it
on the floor. Of course, that's my fault, not the crank's. Filing them
is an inexact science. There's some trial, error, refiling, trial,
etc.

Is there a proper direction for insertion? As long as they are
opposite, it doesn't matter, right? Right now, I have them inserted
downward behind the spindle.

I've tightened the left cotter pin twice now, and it's still loose.
When I get home, I'll try again, but I fear I've damaged the cotter
pin, in which case, I'll have to get a replacement.

I'm carrying on with this crankset because I've read that finding
parts that fit a French-threaded frame is very hard these days. Is
that true? If it is, once the parts are damaged beyond repair, the
bike is trash. The fixed cup and axle are already somewhat damaged,
and I also nearly broke the lockring, so it's not long for this world.

Oy.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

"Tom Reingold" wrote in message
...

I'm carrying on with this crankset because I've read that finding
parts that fit a French-threaded frame is very hard these days. Is
that true? If it is, once the parts are damaged beyond repair, the
bike is trash. The fixed cup and axle are already somewhat damaged,
and I also nearly broke the lockring, so it's not long for this world.

You can probably get a tapered crank spindle from Harris:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/frenc...ks.html#bottom

You'll have to use your present cups since they're almost impossible to find
these days. Though there are some YST BB's around that screw into themselves
and you can fit in the BB of the Peugeot.

Tom Reingold wrote:
My commuter bike is a Peugeot UO8. One of the few original parts on it
is the cottered crankset.

Now I remember why cotterless cranks became popular. I spent hours
yesterday overhauling the bottom bracket. It was making a horrible
clatter every time I put pressure on the right pedal. I switched
pedals to make sure it wasn't the pedals, and it wasn't: the noise
persisted.

Getting one of the cotter pins out was a royal pain. I supported the
crank with a heavy gauge bar while banging with a hammer and punch. I
sprayed WD40 in. I banged and banged for a good long time. Eventually,
I drilled down the middle of the cotter pin to remove some of the
mass. This seems to have done the trick. I resumed banging and
eventually, the cotter pin came out.

I can't exactly tell what the clatter was. I had suspected perhaps a
ball bearing had broken, but it seems not. The right side cup and
balls were discolored, indicating small scale damage. Perhaps the
clatter was the sound of the balls getting stuck and moving suddenly.
The grease had become a very stiff and sticky glue.

Reassembling the crank wasn't as hard, but it's not what I would call
easy, either. Of course, the replacement cotter pins didn't fit. I had
to file them down. My vice isn't mounted currently, so I had to use it
on the floor. Of course, that's my fault, not the crank's. Filing them
is an inexact science. There's some trial, error, refiling, trial,
etc.

Is there a proper direction for insertion? As long as they are
opposite, it doesn't matter, right? Right now, I have them inserted
downward behind the spindle.

I've tightened the left cotter pin twice now, and it's still loose.
When I get home, I'll try again, but I fear I've damaged the cotter
pin, in which case, I'll have to get a replacement.

I'm carrying on with this crankset because I've read that finding
parts that fit a French-threaded frame is very hard these days. Is
that true? If it is, once the parts are damaged beyond repair, the
bike is trash. The fixed cup and axle are already somewhat damaged,
and I also nearly broke the lockring, so it's not long for this world.
Oy.

Peugeot cotters, unlike most designs, have an unusual cut and an offset
thread. Lube spindle, arm and pin well before installation and use the
right tool, a VAR Constrictor #07 press. It's 42cm on one side, 1cm on
the other and takes a good strong effort. After home mechanics bang on
their pins with a hammer, we move them much tighter with our press.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jul 14, 5:47*pm, A Muzi wrote:
Tom Reingold wrote:
My commuter bike is a Peugeot UO8. One of the few original parts on it
is the cottered crankset.

Now I remember why cotterless cranks became popular. I spent hours
yesterday overhauling the bottom bracket. It was making a horrible
clatter every time I put pressure on the right pedal. I switched
pedals to make sure it wasn't the pedals, and it wasn't: the noise
persisted.

Getting one of the cotter pins out was a royal pain. I supported the
crank with a heavy gauge bar while banging with a hammer and punch. I
sprayed WD40 in. I banged and banged for a good long time. Eventually,
I drilled down the middle of the cotter pin to remove some of the
mass. This seems to have done the trick. I resumed banging and
eventually, the cotter pin came out.

I can't exactly tell what the clatter was. I had suspected perhaps a
ball bearing had broken, but it seems not. The right side cup and
balls were discolored, indicating small scale damage. Perhaps the
clatter was the sound of the balls getting stuck and moving suddenly.
The grease had become a very stiff and sticky glue.

Reassembling the crank wasn't as hard, but it's not what I would call
easy, either. Of course, the replacement cotter pins didn't fit. I had
to file them down. My vice isn't mounted currently, so I had to use it
on the floor. Of course, that's my fault, not the crank's. Filing them
is an inexact science. There's some trial, error, refiling, trial,
etc.

Is there a proper direction for insertion? As long as they are
opposite, it doesn't matter, right? Right now, I have them inserted
downward behind the spindle.

I've tightened the left cotter pin twice now, and it's still loose.
When I get home, I'll try again, but I fear I've damaged the cotter
pin, in which case, I'll have to get a replacement.

I'm carrying on with this crankset because I've read that finding
parts that fit a French-threaded frame is very hard these days. Is
that true? If it is, once the parts are damaged beyond repair, the
bike is trash. The fixed cup and axle are already somewhat damaged,
and I also nearly broke the lockring, so it's not long for this world.
Oy.

Peugeot cotters, unlike most designs, have an unusual cut and an offset
thread. Lube spindle, arm and pin well before installation and use the
right tool, a VAR Constrictor #07 press. It's 42cm on one side, 1cm on
the other and takes a good strong effort. After home mechanics bang on
their pins with a hammer, we move them much tighter with our press.


Ha. I remember that tool. It worked great almost all the time. I
worked as a bike mechanic many years ago. Thanks for the reminder. I
had forgotten all about it.

Tom Kunich, thanks for the pointer. I'll consider it, but this wasn't
an expensive bike, and it's at least 30 years old. I got the frame
about 25 years ago and built it up then. I wish I had put on a cheap
cotterless crankset at the time. Now they're unavailable for this type
of bike.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

"Tom Reingold" wrote in message
...

Tom Kunich, thanks for the pointer. I'll consider it, but this wasn't
an expensive bike, and it's at least 30 years old. I got the frame
about 25 years ago and built it up then. I wish I had put on a cheap
cotterless crankset at the time. Now they're unavailable for this type
of bike.

YIKES! I didn't bother to look at the price of those. I'd say that your best
bet is to watch the local thrift stores such as Salvation Army. You could
probably find a French bike pretty fast and then remove the crank and BB
from that one. I wouldn't pay more than $35 around here.

Peugeot cotters, unlike most designs, have an unusual cut and an offset
thread. Lube spindle, arm and pin well before installation and use the
right tool, a VAR Constrictor #07 press. It's 42cm on one side, 1cm on the
other and takes a good strong effort. After home mechanics bang on their
pins with a hammer, we move them much tighter with our press.
--
Andrew Muzi

Your customers would bang on the pins with a hammer? Heck, you got it easy.
My customers (back in the day) would try to tighten the pin using the nut,
and bring the result back to the shop, claiming we sold them a defective
cotter pin.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"A Muzi" wrote in message
...
Tom Reingold wrote:
My commuter bike is a Peugeot UO8. One of the few original parts on it
is the cottered crankset.

Now I remember why cotterless cranks became popular. I spent hours
yesterday overhauling the bottom bracket. It was making a horrible
clatter every time I put pressure on the right pedal. I switched
pedals to make sure it wasn't the pedals, and it wasn't: the noise
persisted.

Getting one of the cotter pins out was a royal pain. I supported the
crank with a heavy gauge bar while banging with a hammer and punch. I
sprayed WD40 in. I banged and banged for a good long time. Eventually,
I drilled down the middle of the cotter pin to remove some of the
mass. This seems to have done the trick. I resumed banging and
eventually, the cotter pin came out.

I can't exactly tell what the clatter was. I had suspected perhaps a
ball bearing had broken, but it seems not. The right side cup and
balls were discolored, indicating small scale damage. Perhaps the
clatter was the sound of the balls getting stuck and moving suddenly.
The grease had become a very stiff and sticky glue.

Reassembling the crank wasn't as hard, but it's not what I would call
easy, either. Of course, the replacement cotter pins didn't fit. I had
to file them down. My vice isn't mounted currently, so I had to use it
on the floor. Of course, that's my fault, not the crank's. Filing them
is an inexact science. There's some trial, error, refiling, trial,
etc.

Is there a proper direction for insertion? As long as they are
opposite, it doesn't matter, right? Right now, I have them inserted
downward behind the spindle.

I've tightened the left cotter pin twice now, and it's still loose.
When I get home, I'll try again, but I fear I've damaged the cotter
pin, in which case, I'll have to get a replacement.

I'm carrying on with this crankset because I've read that finding
parts that fit a French-threaded frame is very hard these days. Is
that true? If it is, once the parts are damaged beyond repair, the
bike is trash. The fixed cup and axle are already somewhat damaged,
and I also nearly broke the lockring, so it's not long for this world.
Oy.

Peugeot cotters, unlike most designs, have an unusual cut and an offset
thread. Lube spindle, arm and pin well before installation and use the
right tool, a VAR Constrictor #07 press. It's 42cm on one side, 1cm on the
other and takes a good strong effort. After home mechanics bang on their
pins with a hammer, we move them much tighter with our press.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Tom Reingold" wrote in message
...
My commuter bike is a Peugeot UO8. One of the few original parts on it
is the cottered crankset.

Now I remember why cotterless cranks became popular. I spent hours
yesterday overhauling the bottom bracket. It was making a horrible
clatter every time I put pressure on the right pedal. I switched
pedals to make sure it wasn't the pedals, and it wasn't: the noise
persisted.

Getting one of the cotter pins out was a royal pain. I supported the
crank with a heavy gauge bar while banging with a hammer and punch. I
sprayed WD40 in. I banged and banged for a good long time.

Well, Duh. WD-40 is NOT a "penetrating oil" it is a water displacement
product. It's primary purpose is spraying out electrical boxes that have
got rained on, and removing the goop from old duct tape that's been
peeled off some poor part.

Real penetrating oil is a product like PB Blaster. And it takes a few
applications and time to soak in.

You also need
a hammer with some real mass that won't destroy the part such as a
brass-headed hammer that has a couple of pounds of mass in it. Or
better yet an arbor press.

Ted

On 14 Lug, 23:47, A Muzi wrote:

What a timely discusson, as I have just to install a cotter.

Question 1.
Since not all cotters were created to fit equally how can I file one
to best adjust to the crank?

Question 2.
Has anyone, but me, used a strong vice (with a bigger bolt around the
threaded part) to press the damn thing in for good?

Question 3.
Can I spare myself to adjust the cotter to the slot if I press
sufficiently hard?

Sergio
Pisa

A Muzi wrote:

Peugeot cotters, unlike most designs, have an unusual cut and an offset
thread. Lube spindle, arm and pin well before installation and use the
right tool, a VAR Constrictor #07 press. It's 42cm on one side, 1cm on
the other and takes a good strong effort. After home mechanics bang on
their pins with a hammer, we move them much tighter with our press.

Cottered cranks are pretty much the only thing on a bike that's more
profoundly retarded and more arcane to work on than regular square-
taper cranks. I can't imagine sane people being persuaded to buy into
the square taper system at its inception-- until after they had been
softened up by dealing with crank cotters.

Hell, why not just weld the *******s on? They'd be a lot easier to
install and remove, and the requisite tools are much more common.

I can't think of a single thing that steel cottered cranks do better
than one-piece cranks, except **** people off.

Chalo

On Jul 15, 3:08*am, sergio wrote:
On 14 Lug, 23:47, A Muzi wrote:

What a timely discusson, as I have just *to install a cotter.

Question 1.
Since not all cotters were created *to fit equally how can I file one
to best adjust to the crank?

Question 2.
Has anyone, but me, used a strong vice (with a bigger bolt around the
threaded part) to press the damn thing in for good?

Question 3.
Can I spare myself to adjust the cotter to the slot if I press
sufficiently hard?

Sergio
Pisa


Sergio,

Try the cotter pin first. It may not need filing.

If it doesn't go in far enough, remove it. Clamp it in a vise, and
file it, trying to maintain the same planar direction, if that's a
term. In other words, don't change the angle of the plane.

A vice might work, if you can get it into position properly. One of
the jaws should have a hole where the cotter pin comes out of the
crankarm. That's why mechanics use the special tool that was mentioned
recently here.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy