Trail-proof mounting of panniers and battery

On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 3:03:19 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 3:04:18 PM UTC-5, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 1:45:23 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
Folks,

Since everything will be caked in mud I took some quick photos. Not
great but things can be seen well enough.

Problem #1 was that panniers either ride up and down into the bungees
and thus the hooks lift off all the time or with clip systems things rattle.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

I pulled rubber from an old fairly thick road bike tube over the hooks
of Nashbar Daytrekker panniers. The blue Perspex panel pushes down on
these from above and provides some mechanical tension, holding them
firmly and rattle-free in place.

Farther below is a U-shaped piece I made from aircraft-grade aluminum.
This is what the Perspex panel pulls against. At the same time it
stiffens up the side supports which do not attach to the frame below, on
account of the full suspension structure of my mountain bike. This
substantially reduces the sway with a full pannier load. It is important
that nothing protrudes towards the inside of those side support tubes.
Just in case the tire rubs against it during a crash or something. As a
side benefit this resulted in two "secret stash locations" if needed.
Maybe I'll cram the spare tube in there some day.

Problem #2 was that larger batteries cannot be mounted solidly enough
for rough trails, certainly not in those wimpy canvas pouches that come
with them. So I built this

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Battbox1.JPG

and mounted it this way

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Battbox2.JPG

The battery is mechanically buffered and won't move out of position. I
used chunks from a blown super-thick MTB tube for that. 0.160" or 4mm
wall thickness. The switch cuts power to the lights in case of a crash
or when parking for longer periods. Haven't affixed a crash release rope
yet though. The main reason for it is that dreaded green "Ready-LED"
that consumes about 10mA all the time for nothing. Not that great when
parking the bike for many days. I also provided a 4A fuse which is very
important with Li-Ion batteries. The charge port is under the saddle and
can also be used to siphon power for other stuff such as computers or
cell phones. This might require a regulator because it's about 8V. On my
wish list there is a "bush-proof" radio with MP3 for the more boring
prairie stretches where it won't bother anyone.

So far it all held up well even on rough turf. The battery easily lasts
five hours with the ship fully lit at 8W. If not full the panniers
should be stuffed with bubble wrap or the like so the contents don't
slosh around.

Never leave any sharp protrusions. The bolt in the last picture is there
to take another little box of electronics for the rear light.

In case someone builts this, the usual disclaimer: You do this fully at
your own risk. I just wanted to show the group how I solved the problems
on my MTB.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

have aero balsa ? aero balsas backing both sides pannier, resinate,
bolt epoxied balsa/pannier wall/balsa to frame with multiple aluminum strap clasps...

bolt thru with quality #6 hardware/nylocks

doesn't suggest ore may be hauled to the smelter...that requires a bottom shelf hinged to the pannier sandwich

Why #6 not 3 or 4 mm ?

NO SPARES NO KEEP SEPERATE NO NO NO aiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeee

only a rack mount nit suborbital equipment

5mm?

5mm?

/////////

no, unless the OEM is metric. If the OEM is metric then that OEM metric goes in a separate box ( fishing stuff) or container....like a used bean can.

if the equipment is fabricated then SAE.

this is called TRANSISTION meaning my Ford van is metric so that is can one includes Hella ect....Euro stuff.

bicycle metric is 3 boxes of stuff with a small area for bicycle metrics eg 6mm bolts, used and salvaged bolts n b=nuts with washers.

then everything else is SAE

SAE stores loosely in several can eg washe can, nut can, bolt can by length and 1/4"...#10 rod...

and stores in plastic bags as shipped or bought. In plastic bag poly gallon jugs.

projects using mega fastener usually shoel excess into those separate can types no matter what size unless the size gets gross. itsa time speed distance deal. when its done its done.

so if you then use for no apparently good reason, a mizx of metrics and SAE wha you're doing is doubling the size of this aggregate in kind thus doubling the find sort and store time energy for both coming and going ..

that is insane.

On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 9:55:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
5mm?

/////////

no, unless the OEM is metric. If the OEM is metric then that OEM metric goes in a separate box ( fishing stuff) or container....like a used bean can.

if the equipment is fabricated then SAE.

this is called TRANSISTION meaning my Ford van is metric so that is can one includes Hella ect....Euro stuff.

bicycle metric is 3 boxes of stuff with a small area for bicycle metrics eg 6mm bolts, used and salvaged bolts n b=nuts with washers.

then everything else is SAE

SAE stores loosely in several can eg washe can, nut can, bolt can by length and 1/4"...#10 rod...

and stores in plastic bags as shipped or bought. In plastic bag poly gallon jugs.

projects using mega fastener usually shoel excess into those separate can types no matter what size unless the size gets gross. itsa time speed distance deal. when its done its done.

so if you then use for no apparently good reason, a mizx of metrics and SAE wha you're doing is doubling the size of this aggregate in kind thus doubling the find sort and store time energy for both coming and going ..

that is insane.

uh, not exact here but going metric would

triple local costs...I'm in S Florida end of road

increase storage problems for using SAE which is available and cheaper

vastly increase find and buy times almost completely retarding progress.

this is called TRANSISTION meaning my Ford van is metric so that is can one includes Hella ect....Euro stuff.

Haha it also has bolts with 9mm heads for which you have sockets in some toolkits and not others

so if you then use for no apparently good reason, a mizx of metrics and SAE wha you're doing is doubling the size of this aggregate in kind thus doubling the find sort and store time energy for both coming and going ..

I thot I was halving it. Most things on the bike are 5 - cage screws, rackscrews, no? I agree theyre a bit heavy for what we were talking about

a question of size ? 6 clasp units with 22 screws each would load 7 lbs per scre
w no problem...

Bag mount bolts are maintenance with periodic replacement...6mm bottom rack screws snap after 4k miles

Claps will develop cracks

There's no test period with engineering only road mileage.

It breaks.. as J comments

On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 8:52:12 PM UTC-8, wrote:
a question of size ? 6 clasp units with 22 screws each would load 7 lbs per scre
w no problem...

The shear strength of a #6 screw is 1500 lbs so I agree

Bag mount bolts are maintenance with periodic replacement...6mm bottom rack screws

Bottom rack screws are 5mm.

snap after 4k miles
What grade?

On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 12:38:19 AM UTC-5, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 8:52:12 PM UTC-8, wrote:
a question of size ? 6 clasp units with 22 screws each would load 7 lbs per scre
w no problem...

The shear strength of a #6 screw is 1500 lbs so I agree

Bag mount bolts are maintenance with periodic replacement...6mm bottom rack screws

Bottom rack screws are 5mm.

snap after 4k miles
What grade?

not my #6 ......

My screws are 6mm for a '78 Raleigh carbon steel..

the rack setup holds 50 pounds n up .... grade 5 6mm screws need replacement every 2 years with a shopping load used maybe 75 times.

photo

https://picasaweb.google.com/1022344...24681/BIKERACK

On 2015-12-04 11:07, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/4/2015 12:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
Folks,

Since everything will be caked in mud I took some quick
photos. Not great but things can be seen well enough.

Problem #1 was that panniers either ride up and down into
the bungees and thus the hooks lift off all the time or with
clip systems things rattle.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

I pulled rubber from an old fairly thick road bike tube over
the hooks of Nashbar Daytrekker panniers. The blue Perspex
panel pushes down on these from above and provides some
mechanical tension, holding them firmly and rattle-free in
place.

Farther below is a U-shaped piece I made from aircraft-grade
aluminum. This is what the Perspex panel pulls against. At
the same time it stiffens up the side supports which do not
attach to the frame below, on account of the full suspension
structure of my mountain bike. This substantially reduces
the sway with a full pannier load. It is important that
nothing protrudes towards the inside of those side support
tubes. Just in case the tire rubs against it during a crash
or something. As a side benefit this resulted in two "secret
stash locations" if needed. Maybe I'll cram the spare tube
in there some day.

Problem #2 was that larger batteries cannot be mounted
solidly enough for rough trails, certainly not in those
wimpy canvas pouches that come with them. So I built this

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Battbox1.JPG

and mounted it this way

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Battbox2.JPG

The battery is mechanically buffered and won't move out of
position. I used chunks from a blown super-thick MTB tube
for that. 0.160" or 4mm wall thickness. The switch cuts
power to the lights in case of a crash or when parking for
longer periods. Haven't affixed a crash release rope yet
though. The main reason for it is that dreaded green
"Ready-LED" that consumes about 10mA all the time for
nothing. Not that great when parking the bike for many days.
I also provided a 4A fuse which is very important with
Li-Ion batteries. The charge port is under the saddle and
can also be used to siphon power for other stuff such as
computers or cell phones. This might require a regulator
because it's about 8V. On my wish list there is a
"bush-proof" radio with MP3 for the more boring prairie
stretches where it won't bother anyone.

So far it all held up well even on rough turf. The battery
easily lasts five hours with the ship fully lit at 8W. If
not full the panniers should be stuffed with bubble wrap or
the like so the contents don't slosh around.

Never leave any sharp protrusions. The bolt in the last
picture is there to take another little box of electronics
for the rear light.

In case someone builts this, the usual disclaimer: You do
this fully at your own risk. I just wanted to show the group
how I solved the problems on my MTB.



Bunjis?
Positive Lock pannier mounts were an innovative idea in the early 1980s:

http://lonepeakpacks.com/shop/index....ier-hooks.html

There are many other variants on that theme.


I know. But those little thingies don't stand the slightest chance of
longterm survival out here and they also rattle. Everything has to be
strapped, bolted and cinched down or it'll fail.

The bungees I only use on my road bike and only until I have the time
for a similar mod there. Because some roads are dirt roads or similar to
trails.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2015-12-04 12:04, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 1:45:23 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
Folks,

Since everything will be caked in mud I took some quick photos. Not
great but things can be seen well enough.

Problem #1 was that panniers either ride up and down into the bungees
and thus the hooks lift off all the time or with clip systems things rattle.

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Rack1.JPG

I pulled rubber from an old fairly thick road bike tube over the hooks
of Nashbar Daytrekker panniers. The blue Perspex panel pushes down on
these from above and provides some mechanical tension, holding them
firmly and rattle-free in place.

Farther below is a U-shaped piece I made from aircraft-grade aluminum.
This is what the Perspex panel pulls against. At the same time it
stiffens up the side supports which do not attach to the frame below, on
account of the full suspension structure of my mountain bike. This
substantially reduces the sway with a full pannier load. It is important
that nothing protrudes towards the inside of those side support tubes.
Just in case the tire rubs against it during a crash or something. As a
side benefit this resulted in two "secret stash locations" if needed.
Maybe I'll cram the spare tube in there some day.

Problem #2 was that larger batteries cannot be mounted solidly enough
for rough trails, certainly not in those wimpy canvas pouches that come
with them. So I built this

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Battbox1.JPG

and mounted it this way

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Battbox2.JPG

The battery is mechanically buffered and won't move out of position. I
used chunks from a blown super-thick MTB tube for that. 0.160" or 4mm
wall thickness. The switch cuts power to the lights in case of a crash
or when parking for longer periods. Haven't affixed a crash release rope
yet though. The main reason for it is that dreaded green "Ready-LED"
that consumes about 10mA all the time for nothing. Not that great when
parking the bike for many days. I also provided a 4A fuse which is very
important with Li-Ion batteries. The charge port is under the saddle and
can also be used to siphon power for other stuff such as computers or
cell phones. This might require a regulator because it's about 8V. On my
wish list there is a "bush-proof" radio with MP3 for the more boring
prairie stretches where it won't bother anyone.

So far it all held up well even on rough turf. The battery easily lasts
five hours with the ship fully lit at 8W. If not full the panniers
should be stuffed with bubble wrap or the like so the contents don't
slosh around.

Never leave any sharp protrusions. The bolt in the last picture is there
to take another little box of electronics for the rear light.

In case someone builts this, the usual disclaimer: You do this fully at
your own risk. I just wanted to show the group how I solved the problems
on my MTB.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

have aero balsa ? aero balsas backing both sides pannier, resinate,
bolt epoxied balsa/pannier wall/balsa to frame with multiple aluminum strap clasps...

bolt thru with quality #6 hardware/nylocks

doesn't suggest ore may be hauled to the smelter...that requires a bottom shelf hinged to the pannier sandwich

Why #6 not 3 or 4 mm ?


The two central bolts are 6mm steel carriage bolts. They'll still be
there even after a nasty crash.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

not my #6 ......

My screws are 6mm for a '78 Raleigh carbon steel..

the rack setup holds 50 pounds n up .... grade 5 6mm screws need replacement every 2 years with a shopping load used maybe 75 times.

photo


nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


https://picasaweb.google.com/1022344...24681/BIKERACK

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

here's a gudun

http://www.fastenal.com/content/docu...renceGuide.pdf.

the ply top rack badly needs a panhard rod ...
was made as an instant rack attempt

but drilling holes one by one lead t a 1/4" offset for the last holes

best using a compressible cardboard template for pressure marking all holes at once using short studs.