Carbon Bars

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 7:17:37 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

That would be dandy if most of the carbon components weren't made in China and sold for 10 times as much here with a brand name on them. Did you miss the Easton trade mark on those bars? Another I have is a Bontrager. The deep section carbon wheels have been tested up to 10,000 miles with the braking surface finally wearing out. That is what a New Mavic aluminum wheel is good for.

My Colnago which is a nearly perfect bike was made in Taiwan which you might remember is free China.

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 1:02:28 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/3/2019 2:30 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 10:17:37 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again.. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

I don't know why anyone with previous problems with Chinese made carbon stop would continue to buy off-brand Chinese crap. Buying off-brand stuff made in China is a real crap shoot and your well-being is put at risk every time you use it. You simply don't know what you're getting with Chinese off-brand bicycle stuff.

And I don't know why someone in Tom's situation would be trying to shave
grams from his bike at all. What's the benefit? To beat some other 75
year old to the top of a hill? To win an imaginary Masters' race? Or
just to brag about bike weight in some coffee shop?

Yes, I know some people are into having the most cutting edge bike
equipment, just as some are into having the most luxurious house, the
coolest car, the awesomest home theater system. I'm not saying it should
be forbidden; but when it goes too far, I think it should be recognized
as a weakness.

And when it descends to repeatedly buying fragile off-brand junk despite
repeatedly suffering failures of that junk, I think it should be treated
as a psychological problem.

On a really good day for you, you are merely ludicrous. Where in my postings did I say that I was trying to "shave weight"? For someone that is in a wheelchair and talking about tree limbs not being there because he cannot see them in a Google Maps photo you are showing even more of your obvious talent for ignorance.

Meanwhile I did 50 miles yesterday with 3500 feet of climbing and was the first one to the Halfway Cafe since everyone else who are faster than me had to stop for a rest here and there.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:20:08 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 7:17:37 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

That would be dandy if most of the carbon components weren't made in China and sold for 10 times as much here with a brand name on them. Did you miss the Easton trade mark on those bars?

Ah, yes I did --because it's not there. Those are Chinese knock-offs with no Easton branding, although they did swipe Easton's product name (EC90). Even though there is a f****** American flag in the ad, its a Chinese knock-off. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...handlebar.html You can buy a whole box of them from Alibaba. I though you loved Trump and MAGA and wanted to beat back the IP-stealing Chinese invading hoard. No? More interested in buying cheap **** than supporting your claimed values?

This is the Easton product. https://eastoncycling.com/collection...andlebars+ec90

Another I have is a Bontrager. The deep section carbon wheels have been tested up to 10,000 miles with the braking surface finally wearing out. That is what a New Mavic aluminum wheel is good for.

My Colnago which is a nearly perfect bike was made in Taiwan which you might remember is free China.

Are you trying to be stupid? Made by COLNAGO at a Taiwanese factory. It's branded, subject to Colnago's QC, undoubtedly supervised by Colnago's people and sold by Colnago -- with their ****ty warranty, but at least they have one. And mainland has some of the best CF QC in the world -- unlike some bizarre knock-offs from China.

Maybe next time you should get a Chinarello or a Chinago. https://www.bikebiz.com/when-is-a-pi...-a-chinarello/ Again, do you support IP theft? Do you NOT want to make America great again? Are you a communist sympathizer?

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:55:51 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:20:08 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 7:17:37 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

That would be dandy if most of the carbon components weren't made in China and sold for 10 times as much here with a brand name on them. Did you miss the Easton trade mark on those bars?

Ah, yes I did --because it's not there. Those are Chinese knock-offs with no Easton branding, although they did swipe Easton's product name (EC90). Even though there is a f****** American flag in the ad, its a Chinese knock-off. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...handlebar.html You can buy a whole box of them from Alibaba. I though you loved Trump and MAGA and wanted to beat back the IP-stealing Chinese invading hoard. No? More interested in buying cheap **** than supporting your claimed values?

This is the Easton product. https://eastoncycling.com/collection...andlebars+ec90

Another I have is a Bontrager. The deep section carbon wheels have been tested up to 10,000 miles with the braking surface finally wearing out. That is what a New Mavic aluminum wheel is good for.

My Colnago which is a nearly perfect bike was made in Taiwan which you might remember is free China.

Are you trying to be stupid? Made by COLNAGO at a Taiwanese factory. It's branded, subject to Colnago's QC, undoubtedly supervised by Colnago's people and sold by Colnago -- with their ****ty warranty, but at least they have one. And mainland has some of the best CF QC in the world -- unlike some bizarre knock-offs from China.

Maybe next time you should get a Chinarello or a Chinago. https://www.bikebiz.com/when-is-a-pi...-a-chinarello/ Again, do you support IP theft? Do you NOT want to make America great again? Are you a communist sympathizer?

-- Jay Beattie.

Ooops. I meant to say Taiwan has some of the best CF QC in the world. It's also not cheap.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/4/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Are you trying to be stupid? Made by COLNAGO at a Taiwanese factory. It's branded, subject to Colnago's QC, undoubtedly supervised by Colnago's people and sold by Colnago -- with their ****ty warranty, but at least they have one. And mainland has some of the best CF QC in the world -- unlike some bizarre knock-offs from China.

Maybe next time you should get a Chinarello or a Chinago. https://www.bikebiz.com/when-is-a-pi...-a-chinarello/ Again, do you support IP theft? Do you NOT want to make America great again? Are you a communist sympathizer?

True, do not automatically dismiss parts from Taiwan or China.

I recall a recall of Brompton aluminum handlebars that were experiencing
breakage. They got handlebars from their licensed manufacturer (Neobike)
in Taiwan to do replacements. My Bromptons are all from Neobike and were
not subject to the recall. They also were sending out reinforcement
brackets for the U of the bars (the fact that the Neobike executives
ended up in jail was due to patent infringement on Dahon).

"In Mid 1995 Brompton began to use the bars fitted to far-Eastern
Bromptons produced under licence by Neobike. These more conventional
7/8-inch bars (satin finish once again, with a raised centre section),
were found to have a better fatigue life than both the previous designs.
They are not to everyone's tastes however, being rather higher than the
earlier types, which leads people to fit quick-releases to give a lower
sportier riding position."

OTOH, it is important to understand that aluminum and carbon-fiber
handlebars are a wear item and should be inspected and replaced on a
regular basis. It's difficult to detect flaws in CF so periodic
replacement is recommended because a failure can be catastrophic.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:55:51 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:20:08 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 7:17:37 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

That would be dandy if most of the carbon components weren't made in China and sold for 10 times as much here with a brand name on them. Did you miss the Easton trade mark on those bars?

Ah, yes I did --because it's not there. Those are Chinese knock-offs with no Easton branding, although they did swipe Easton's product name (EC90). Even though there is a f****** American flag in the ad, its a Chinese knock-off. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...handlebar.html You can buy a whole box of them from Alibaba. I though you loved Trump and MAGA and wanted to beat back the IP-stealing Chinese invading hoard. No? More interested in buying cheap **** than supporting your claimed values?

This is the Easton product. https://eastoncycling.com/collection...andlebars+ec90

Another I have is a Bontrager. The deep section carbon wheels have been tested up to 10,000 miles with the braking surface finally wearing out. That is what a New Mavic aluminum wheel is good for.

My Colnago which is a nearly perfect bike was made in Taiwan which you might remember is free China.

Are you trying to be stupid? Made by COLNAGO at a Taiwanese factory. It's branded, subject to Colnago's QC, undoubtedly supervised by Colnago's people and sold by Colnago -- with their ****ty warranty, but at least they have one. And mainland has some of the best CF QC in the world -- unlike some bizarre knock-offs from China.

Maybe next time you should get a Chinarello or a Chinago. https://www.bikebiz.com/when-is-a-pi...-a-chinarello/ Again, do you support IP theft? Do you NOT want to make America great again? Are you a communist sympathizer?

-- Jay Beattie.

EC90 is a type of carbon fiber. That is just another in a line of bars that were made in China for Easton. Because of the way that carbon bars fail - suddenly - Easton doesn't make these available much anymore sticking with Aluminum.

The Bontrager isn't a knockoff - it is the real thing.

I would be interested in knowing how you believe that Colnago could have ANY effective quality control. And it was a Colnago plainly marked with a "Made In Taiwan" label under the bottom bracket. They are more reliable than the actual carbon made in Italy C- series up to the present day C-62. This isn't to say that they are unreliable, just that they have a higher failure rate of the Italian models which are made strictly for light weight.

Presently I can't see any point in that since the UCI weight limit is 14.5 lbs or around there somewhere. But when I wrote the UCI I got back a nasty letter saying that they would set any weight limit they decided and that it was none of by business.

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:25:59 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 1:02:28 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/3/2019 2:30 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 10:17:37 UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

I don't know why anyone with previous problems with Chinese made carbon stop would continue to buy off-brand Chinese crap. Buying off-brand stuff made in China is a real crap shoot and your well-being is put at risk every time you use it. You simply don't know what you're getting with Chinese off-brand bicycle stuff.

And I don't know why someone in Tom's situation would be trying to shave
grams from his bike at all. What's the benefit? To beat some other 75
year old to the top of a hill? To win an imaginary Masters' race? Or
just to brag about bike weight in some coffee shop?

Yes, I know some people are into having the most cutting edge bike
equipment, just as some are into having the most luxurious house, the
coolest car, the awesomest home theater system. I'm not saying it should
be forbidden; but when it goes too far, I think it should be recognized
as a weakness.

And when it descends to repeatedly buying fragile off-brand junk despite
repeatedly suffering failures of that junk, I think it should be treated
as a psychological problem.

On a really good day for you, you are merely ludicrous. Where in my postings did I say that I was trying to "shave weight"? For someone that is in a wheelchair and talking about tree limbs not being there because he cannot see them in a Google Maps photo you are showing even more of your obvious talent for ignorance.

Why else would you want to use carbon fiber components?

Meanwhile I did 50 miles yesterday with 3500 feet of climbing and was the first one to the Halfway Cafe since everyone else who are faster than me had to stop for a rest here and there.

So you are trying to change the subject again. Or does using carbon
fiber handle bars nave something to do with your amazing performance
as a cyclist? Because they make the bike lighter perhaps.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 2:09:41 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 11/4/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Are you trying to be stupid? Made by COLNAGO at a Taiwanese factory. It's branded, subject to Colnago's QC, undoubtedly supervised by Colnago's people and sold by Colnago -- with their ****ty warranty, but at least they have one. And mainland has some of the best CF QC in the world -- unlike some bizarre knock-offs from China.

Maybe next time you should get a Chinarello or a Chinago. https://www.bikebiz.com/when-is-a-pi...-a-chinarello/ Again, do you support IP theft? Do you NOT want to make America great again? Are you a communist sympathizer?

True, do not automatically dismiss parts from Taiwan or China.

I recall a recall of Brompton aluminum handlebars that were experiencing
breakage. They got handlebars from their licensed manufacturer (Neobike)
in Taiwan to do replacements. My Bromptons are all from Neobike and were
not subject to the recall. They also were sending out reinforcement
brackets for the U of the bars (the fact that the Neobike executives
ended up in jail was due to patent infringement on Dahon).

"In Mid 1995 Brompton began to use the bars fitted to far-Eastern
Bromptons produced under licence by Neobike. These more conventional
7/8-inch bars (satin finish once again, with a raised centre section),
were found to have a better fatigue life than both the previous designs.
They are not to everyone's tastes however, being rather higher than the
earlier types, which leads people to fit quick-releases to give a lower
sportier riding position."

OTOH, it is important to understand that aluminum and carbon-fiber
handlebars are a wear item and should be inspected and replaced on a
regular basis. It's difficult to detect flaws in CF so periodic
replacement is recommended because a failure can be catastrophic.

Anything is a wear item, I have seen numerous old steel bikes broken. A member of the riding group got a new Titanium bike and the first day he got it and was showing it off I pointed out a fracture directly below the top headset bearing. I think it was Lynskey replaced it and it has been good ever since so was it a bad weld or a soft spot in the tubing?

I cannot count the number of broken saddles I've seen. Though remarkably few seatposts. Though I have seen a very scary failure on a guy who was descending out of the saddle. Went over one of those heavy vibration areas and the saddle and post just below it fell off leaving a ragged edge. I can't remember how that guy detected it before trying to sit down again. I do remember riding back and bringing my car to pick him up.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 4:33:04 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote:

But when I wrote the UCI I got back a nasty letter saying that they would set any weight limit they decided and that it was none of my business.

And what business is it of yours? Do you sponsor a UCI race or team? Are you a rider on a team that competes in UCI races? If you wrote to the organization that runs the F1 motor car races saying they should change the amount of HP in the cars or suspension system used, and they wrote back (like they would even bother) saying "F-ck Off, you dumb -ss, dumb sh-t." That would be 100% appropriate.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 2:33:04 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:55:51 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:20:08 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 7:17:37 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 2:57:39 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 12:45:30 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 10:18:50 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:35:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:16:37 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
I have a carbon bar on the Lemond. Initially I had an aluminum stem with those super narrow front pieces that I was using with the carbon bar. That was not a good idea.

I hit a good bump and the bar rotated.

So I got an Easton carbon stem with a wider contact surface and next time I hit a good bump the damn thing rotated again. I nearly lost control when this happened but luckily I was able to retain enough control to bring it to a stop.

Then I bought yet another Chinese stem that had a full frontal contact plate. The other day on a fast descent I again hit a large bump in a turn and again nearly lost it.

I remembered Andrew and Jay talking about "carbon paste" so I went and got some and applied it as the shop recommended. This seemed to make a difference until this morning: I was almost at my coffee stop and had been pushing it so was fairly exhausted and I had a string of cars behind me on a narrow section of road. I attempted to cut to the inside of a turn to allow these cars to race by since they had to get to the stop sign a block away in a hurry. On the inside of the turn was one of those really rough spots that is hidden in bad asphalt and as I hit it my bars rotated yet again. I kept control of the bike but just by the skin of my teeth.

Back to Aluminum bars for me. And I suggest that none of you use carbon bars. At the coffee stop the owner has a set of tools for the bikes since he gets a lot of groups in there. (This morning was pretty cold and my groves turned out to be too tight so my left hand had lost feeling and I couldn't shift - he asked me if I needed a hug (no he isn't))

In any case, after I loosened, rotated back into position and then tightened the bar I pushed on it and was quite surprised to see the bar flex.

Now they do make carbon bar/stem one piece combination that would be OK but no more two piece carbon setups for me. I guess this is why the pro's use the one piece bar/stem.

What carbon bars do you have? Do they have a slick center-section? Are they undersized? I've had carbon bars on one bike or another for fifteen years with no problems. Slippage is not an inherent quality of carbon bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think that the real problem is that they are built to minimum weight more than anything else. I think I wouldn't have any problem with a bar built to these standards if it had a molded in stem. For awhile you could get those pretty cheap but now you're looking at $200 a pop.

If you get nervous about 200 dollar for a one piece CF handlebar-stem combo I wonder what CF handlebar you use now. A CF handlebar alone from a respectable manufacturer already cost over 200 euro on this side of the pond:

https://www.bike-components.de/en/co...aterial=carbon


Pfff. https://tinyurl.com/y6j72h4u Get four! I defended ControlTech a million years ago when some guy sued after his MTB bars broke. The bars were some Chinese aluminum crap with ControlTech bar-ends made in Washington. The bar-ends didn't break, but ControlTech got sued anyway. My handlebar expert in that case was a great guy from Easton who designed and built bars in LA. I learned that there is a lot more to making a good handlebar than one might think. If you go cheap light weight Chinese carbon or aluminum, you're asking for at least some trouble. I suspect TK got the Alibaba sale table bars.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://tinyurl.com/y4agbgxs

Testing shows that when carbon bars break it is almost always at the stem So this keeps the bar in one piece and manageable unless you hit so hard you break both sides off.

Testing shows that buying Chinese crap is generally a bad idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QBRjp9-uJg&t=59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJT7pHOGzMo&t=372s


You're a super-wealthy investor, so get a decent pair of bars and not some Chinese crap from a company that rips-off Easton's product names. I wouldn't buy those bars just because of the shady IP practice. Or don't you care about buying American?

-- Jay Beattie.

That would be dandy if most of the carbon components weren't made in China and sold for 10 times as much here with a brand name on them. Did you miss the Easton trade mark on those bars?

Ah, yes I did --because it's not there. Those are Chinese knock-offs with no Easton branding, although they did swipe Easton's product name (EC90). Even though there is a f****** American flag in the ad, its a Chinese knock-off. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...handlebar.html You can buy a whole box of them from Alibaba. I though you loved Trump and MAGA and wanted to beat back the IP-stealing Chinese invading hoard. No? More interested in buying cheap **** than supporting your claimed values?

This is the Easton product. https://eastoncycling.com/collection...andlebars+ec90

Another I have is a Bontrager. The deep section carbon wheels have been tested up to 10,000 miles with the braking surface finally wearing out. That is what a New Mavic aluminum wheel is good for.

My Colnago which is a nearly perfect bike was made in Taiwan which you might remember is free China.

Are you trying to be stupid? Made by COLNAGO at a Taiwanese factory. It's branded, subject to Colnago's QC, undoubtedly supervised by Colnago's people and sold by Colnago -- with their ****ty warranty, but at least they have one. And mainland has some of the best CF QC in the world -- unlike some bizarre knock-offs from China.

Maybe next time you should get a Chinarello or a Chinago. https://www.bikebiz.com/when-is-a-pi...-a-chinarello/ Again, do you support IP theft? Do you NOT want to make America great again? Are you a communist sympathizer?

-- Jay Beattie.

EC90 is a type of carbon fiber. That is just another in a line of bars that were made in China for Easton. Because of the way that carbon bars fail - suddenly - Easton doesn't make these available much anymore sticking with Aluminum.

The Bontrager isn't a knockoff - it is the real thing.

I would be interested in knowing how you believe that Colnago could have ANY effective quality control. And it was a Colnago plainly marked with a "Made In Taiwan" label under the bottom bracket. They are more reliable than the actual carbon made in Italy C- series up to the present day C-62. This isn't to say that they are unreliable, just that they have a higher failure rate of the Italian models which are made strictly for light weight.

EC=Easton Carbon
EA=Easton Aluminum Go look at their products. The "90" line is used for both materials, e.g. EA 90 wheels https://eastoncycling.com/products/e...29642172366957
EC 90 wheels: https://eastoncycling.com/products/ec90-sl-wheels

EC90 is not "a type of carbon fiber." It is a product designation used by Easton and ripped off by your China buddies and fellow travelers working with you to make America ungreat again.

BTW, read this: https://www.smartchinasourcing.com/c...s-back-basics/ That's basically how you do QC in China. In Taiwan, factory QC is far less sketchy based on what I have been told.


Presently I can't see any point in that since the UCI weight limit is 14.5 lbs or around there somewhere. But when I wrote the UCI I got back a nasty letter saying that they would set any weight limit they decided and that it was none of by business.

I'm outraged! The UCI not deferring to you? Mon dieu!


-- Jay Beattie.