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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
!Jones' Sock Puppet wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:00:42 -0800 (PST), in alt.war.vietnam " wrote: On Jan 15, 7:06 am, !Jones' Sock Puppet wrote: In '70, one could buy a decent bicycle for $20 - $30 at a hardware store. I paid $48.33 in '68 for my '66 Schwinn equipped with a Bendix kickback and that was considered extravagant. In '70, I was in Vietnam, so I didn't have a bicycle; however, in '72, I was driving a cab and considered 40 bucks to be a decent night's book... I probably averaged $30 to $35. I was in Georgetown, DC in October doing a little urban hiking... granted, that's a pricey neighborhood. We walked by a bike shop and their window display bike had a $22K price tag!!! Sheeze! That's more than I paid for my first *house*! It's even a fairly large part of it when adjusted for inflation. When you put multiple thousands of dollars into a bicycle, what you have is a fetish, not transportation. Jones You can buy a $70 bike at walmart, target, kmart. they'll ride fine and can be used to commute. Oh, in today's market, methinks I'd budget about $500 or so for a decent commuter. Then about half again for the racks, fenders, and panniers... those accesories ain't cheap! True, by the time they are marked up from the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer, they aren't cheap. In reality, they are all extremely inexpensive when included as part of the bicycle. A rack costs the manufacturer under $2. As do fenders. |
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#2
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:10:08 -0800, in alt.war.vietnam SMS
wrote: True, by the time they are marked up from the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer, they aren't cheap. In reality, they are all extremely inexpensive when included as part of the bicycle. A rack costs the manufacturer under $2. As do fenders. Well, that's true of almost any consumer product. The actual fabrication cost averages around 5% of the retail cost. The high-end stuff has a much greater profit margin; however, that's driven by fad and carrys the risk pf being stuck with lots of product that's no longer in fashion. As I recall, there are several LBS owners herein... ask them about the huge profits they make. Jones |
#3
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
!Jones' Sock Puppet wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:10:08 -0800, in alt.war.vietnam SMS wrote: True, by the time they are marked up from the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer, they aren't cheap. In reality, they are all extremely inexpensive when included as part of the bicycle. A rack costs the manufacturer under $2. As do fenders. Well, that's true of almost any consumer product. The actual fabrication cost averages around 5% of the retail cost. It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. |
#4
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
SMS wrote:
It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. Bike manufacturers have a symbiotic relationship with bike retailers, which are usually service shops as well. Retailers depend heavily upon accessory sales. When I was in the bike shop business, markups on complete bikes ran in the 35% range, while markups on accessories were usually 100%. The margin on bikes might cover the cost of keeping bikes on the floor, but it was the margin on everything else that made it plausible to do business. If bikes in the US market begin to come well equipped with accessories, then the markup will have to increase as well. That might prove to be more economical for those riders who were going to buy all that stuff anyway, but it would surely cost more for the folks who would have bought only a small subset of the accessories, or none at all. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea, but it's something to consider. On the other hand, there is the possibility that more comprehensively spec'ed bikes would sell to more people, and economy of scale would make it a net win for everyone. I'm not at all sure what it would take in terms of accessories to get non-cyclists to buy in, though. Maybe something that pedals for you. :^) Chalo |
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:45:36 -0800, SMS wrote:
It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. This is all fine if you like what is already on the RS, but if you do not, then it is just wasted money. When I look for accessories, then I have very specific requirements about their construction as well. So different folks, different accessories. |
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
terryc wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:45:36 -0800, SMS wrote: It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. This is all fine if you like what is already on the RS, but if you do not, then it is just wasted money. When I look for accessories, then I have very specific requirements about their construction as well. So different folks, different accessories. True, but it would be nice to have an "out of the box" fully functional transportation bike, then you could always customize it later if you wished. which reminds me... new year's resolution, I WILL gear out my bike so that I can actually use it to go shopping. Gotta get on that. Right after I fix the oil leaks and battery tray in the truck, and clean up the house. Yes, my resolutions are boring. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#7
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
On Jan 24, 5:45*pm, SMS wrote:
!Jones' Sock Puppet wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:10:08 -0800, in alt.war.vietnam SMS wrote: True, by the time they are marked up from the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer, they aren't cheap. In reality, they are all extremely inexpensive when included as part of the bicycle. A rack costs the manufacturer under $2. As do fenders. Well, that's true of almost any consumer product. *The actual fabrication cost averages around 5% of the retail cost. It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. When I bought my "Sunday bike" I brought it back from the test ride (which lasted quite a while on a hot summer day). When he asked what I thought my first comment was that it lacked hydration, joking with the mechanic (who I already knew) as a way to excuse my walking away from him to get a drink from my water bottle. Once rehydrated and cooled down a touch we got to talking turkey, with me telling him up front that I liked it (I had already told him I had cash in pocket (may as well let them know they won't be paying cc fees before negotiating)). He told me he thought he could get me an even better price than the already-discounted price I was given before the test ride, and after chatting with the owner came back with a substantially lower cash-today-ride-away price. It was all quite pleasant, without any haggling or uncomfortable trying to hassle them out of their profit. I probably could have gotten it for less than I did had I really tried to haggle them, but that shop is always good to me and I wanted all parties to be happy. At the end of the transaction, after the bike was paid for they solved the "hydration problem" for me for free, threw in a bottle and cage that probably only cost them a couple bucks but would have cost me $20 off the shelf. Granted the bike was a leftover they really wanted to move, and the shop knew me, but the whole thing left it clear to me there is some wiggle room in the sticker price on new bikes. I was told at the start I could have gotten a percentage off anything already on the floor (I'm sure I would have paid MSRP if I had them order me something, we never got into that because I really wanted to ride a bike before buying it and they preferred to sell a bike they already had on the floor). Along those same lines one could probably mention that the commuter they were looking at was missing fenders and a rack as part of the initial negotiation. The shop will be looking at their cost on the stuff to throw it in, so you might get $70 in add-ons that cost them $35 where you could have negotiated that 35 off the price and still had to shell out the other $35 to get that stuff. Maybe you get something thrown in, maybe you get a percentage off the accessories, but I'd think there'd be some way to meet in the middle. (I have no idea what fenders and a rack would actually cost, retail or for the shop, or what type of negotiation is standard for a commuter - I assume its relative to the cost of the bike. My above $35 & 70 are arbitrary to make a point, not to be confused with what stuff actually costs). I do agree commuters should come with this stuff, but since they don't why not try to meet in the middle somewhere? |
#8
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
On Jan 24, 6:24*pm, Chalo wrote:
SMS wrote: It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. Bike manufacturers have a symbiotic relationship with bike retailers, which are usually service shops as well. *Retailers depend heavily upon accessory sales. *When I was in the bike shop business, markups on complete bikes ran in the 35% range, while markups on accessories were usually 100%. *The margin on bikes might cover the cost of keeping bikes on the floor, but it was the margin on everything else that made it plausible to do business. That's surprising to me (the bike markup, I had an idea what the component markup was). Are shops in the habit of selling bikes for what they paid when they need to get them off the floor for the next years model? I think I paid around 65%, maybe 70% of MSRP for my last bike and often see bikes on sale for 50-60% of MSRP. I know when a car dealer tells you they're actually losing money selling you a car at a certain price it's hot air - do bike shops actually do this? As an aside, I've never bought a car from a dealership but I've come close and am ruthless in negotiations (I've also helped others negotiate cars from dealers). When it comes to my LBS I want it to be a transaction that works for everyone, which includes them making some $. Aside from the joking suggestion they throw in a water bottle and cage I paid what they ended up asking for my Sunday bike, and they were more than happy to give it to me at that price to get it off the floor (and I presume give me another bike to go to them for parts for, and keep a happy customer happy). It also came with a free tune-up that I never used which would cost them additional time, which is money. |
#9
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
In article
, " wrote: On Jan 24, 6:24*pm, Chalo wrote: SMS wrote: It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. Bike manufacturers have a symbiotic relationship with bike retailers, which are usually service shops as well. *Retailers depend heavily upon accessory sales. *When I was in the bike shop business, markups on complete bikes ran in the 35% range, while markups on accessories were usually 100%. *The margin on bikes might cover the cost of keeping bikes on the floor, but it was the margin on everything else that made it plausible to do business. That's surprising to me (the bike markup, I had an idea what the component markup was). Are shops in the habit of selling bikes for what they paid when they need to get them off the floor for the next years model? I think I paid around 65%, maybe 70% of MSRP for my last bike and often see bikes on sale for 50-60% of MSRP. I know when a car dealer tells you they're actually losing money selling you a car at a certain price it's hot air - do bike shops actually do this? As an aside, I've never bought a car from a dealership but I've come close and am ruthless in negotiations (I've also helped others negotiate cars from dealers). I did buy a new car at a dealership; am happy with the car and the purchase. I decided what car and features I wanted and what a fair price was. The saleswoman wrote up a contract, then said she was going to the sales manager to have it reviewed. I said that if the sales manager did not pass on it, I would be lowering my offer. She laughed. -- Michael Press |
#10
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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?
On Jan 26, 3:38*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article , " wrote: On Jan 24, 6:24*pm, Chalo wrote: SMS wrote: It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks, fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff. Bike manufacturers have a symbiotic relationship with bike retailers, which are usually service shops as well. *Retailers depend heavily upon accessory sales. *When I was in the bike shop business, markups on complete bikes ran in the 35% range, while markups on accessories were usually 100%. *The margin on bikes might cover the cost of keeping bikes on the floor, but it was the margin on everything else that made it plausible to do business. That's surprising to me (the bike markup, I had an idea what the component markup was). *Are shops in the habit of selling bikes for what they paid when they need to get them off the floor for the next years model? *I think I paid around 65%, maybe 70% of MSRP for my last bike and often see bikes on sale for 50-60% of MSRP. *I know when a car dealer tells you they're actually losing money selling you a car at a certain price it's hot air - do bike shops actually do this? As an aside, I've never bought a car from a dealership but I've come close and am ruthless in negotiations (I've also helped others negotiate cars from dealers). * I did buy a new car at a dealership; am happy with the car and the purchase. Car? I seem to recall that you were going to buy one of them gigantic gas sucking pickups back when gas was $3.50/gal. It stuck in my mind because I thought at the time "This guy is nuts." -Paul |
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