Sealed Bearings

With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings. These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I imagined that with the weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?

On 2016-05-29 11:40, wrote:
With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the
wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me
while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new
balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who
make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings.
These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the
seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I
imagined that with the weight of a person this would be
insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in
fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the
sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?


No, but was that with the very same tires and tire pressures front and back?

A friend of mine has an old Peugeot which still needs to be restored.
Decades ago he equipped that with Phil Woods seal bearings front and
back and those wheels spin just as freely as on my Shimano 600 set. The
wheels on my MTB do spin less freely but that's because each side has
double rubbers to keep out dirt (more or less).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 30/05/16 04:40, wrote:
With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the
wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me
while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new
balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who
make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings.
These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the
seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I
imagined that with the weight of a person this would be
insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in
fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the
sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?


You must be very sensitive, or the sealed units you have are extremely
high friction compared with what's normal. IIRC, each seal contributes
about 0.5W at 50km/h.

--
JS

trade grease for: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ial%2Cmodifier

in drops.

or repack a freehub then repack a freewheel. freewheels win.

if you're good a this then grade 25 balls in new cones, straight axle, roll better than inexpensive dull Chinese balls.

you would add in all the friction savers but Muzi's build will be %15 faster

seals have an edge once broken in that rides on a layer of rotationally extruded/thrown off lubricant.

I guess grease piles up on seals ID for more friction but....a better seal whereas slimey synthetics would flow under.

that is in facto what muh Ford 5.4 SOHC does with recommended 5-20 synthetic (Valvo).The thinness lubes rings but burns off clean into the convertor (ruining it) Does not burn oil running steady but stop n go draws oil past rings for lubrication.

trade for cartridge bearings

On 5/29/2016 2:40 PM, wrote:
With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings. These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I imagined that with the weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?

FWIW, of my four most-ridden bikes, two have sealed bearing hubs and two
do not. I can't tell the difference in the hubs. Perhaps it's because
the bikes are quite different; but even on the workstand, I haven't
noticed any difference.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 29 May 2016 11:40:16 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings. These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I imagined that with the weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look
and in fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and
the sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I built a set of wheels with sealed cartridge bearings and they seemed
to spin quite freely. Later I busted a spoke on another bike and
"quick, quick" bought a set of low end Shimano wheels. I was tinkering
with the two bikes and turned them both upside down and spun the
wheels, by hand. Just reached out with both hands and gave them, a
flick. They seemed to spin for just about the same period. Or perhaps,
I should say that neither of them stopped noticeably sooner than the
other.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016 at 11:38:14 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2016 11:40:16 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings. These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I imagined that with the weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look
and in fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and
the sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I built a set of wheels with sealed cartridge bearings and they seemed
to spin quite freely. Later I busted a spoke on another bike and
"quick, quick" bought a set of low end Shimano wheels. I was tinkering
with the two bikes and turned them both upside down and spun the
wheels, by hand. Just reached out with both hands and gave them, a
flick. They seemed to spin for just about the same period. Or perhaps,
I should say that neither of them stopped noticeably sooner than the
other.
--
cheers,

John B.

RANDOM RESULTS..... or hi end industrial standards....weak testing methods....

wrote in message
...
With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the wheels
on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me while
I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new balls and
Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who make
the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings. These sort
of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the seals. You can
tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I imagined that with the
weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in fact
you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the sealed. It
does coast much further and with less noise.


If you mean regular bearings like the ones used for gear box shafts; there's
a choice between shielded and oil seal bearings.

The oil seal type have noticeable friction, while AFAIK: the shielded type
just have a stainless steel shield that doesn't have any actual contact with
the inner ring.

The oil seal type are only unavoidable if you need to contain oil.
The shielded type are OK with grease, but not 100% at keeping road grit out.

On Tue, 31 May 2016 21:38:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the wheels
on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me while
I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new balls and
Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who make
the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings. These sort
of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the seals. You can
tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I imagined that with the
weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in fact
you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the sealed. It
does coast much further and with less noise.


If you mean regular bearings like the ones used for gear box shafts; there's
a choice between shielded and oil seal bearings.

The oil seal type have noticeable friction, while AFAIK: the shielded type
just have a stainless steel shield that doesn't have any actual contact with
the inner ring.

The oil seal type are only unavoidable if you need to contain oil.
The shielded type are OK with grease, but not 100% at keeping road grit out.

You over simplify, There are basically three types of cartridge
bearing. Plain (open, no seals or shields), Shielded and Sealed.

The shielded of course simply have a plate mounted, generally, in the
outer race to protect the interior bearing. These "shields" can be
contact or non contact and the non contact obviously have lower
"drag", Then we have the "Sealed" where a soft material is used to
protect the interior of the bearing. Again these "seals" may be
contact or non contact.

Then we get into the material that the shields and seals are made
from, and then there is the single side seal/shield and both sides.

As an example, one manufacture lists the following:
Type ZZS - Removable non-contact metal shield retained in the
outer ring with a snap wire.
Type ZZ - Non-removable, non-contact metal shield retained in the
outer ring via crimping, or pressing.
Type ZZS - Removable non-contact metal shield retained in the
outer ring with a snap wire.
Type ZZ - Non-removable, non-contact metal shield retained in the
outer ring via crimping, or pressing.
Type 2RS - Molded rubber seal. This type of seal is Buna-N bonded
to a steel insert.
Type 2RU - Molded rubber seal, non- contact. This type of seal is
Buna-N bonded to a steel insert.
Type 2VS - Molded Viton seal. This type of seal is made of Viton
bonded to a steel insert.
Type TTS - Glass reinforced PTFE seal is retained in the outer
ring with a snap wire.

Other types:
On larger bore bearings (above 10mm), labyrinth type rubber seals are
available.
Double lip rubber seals are also available and or normally of the
labyrinth type.
Felt seals - The felt seal consists of two metal plates fixed in the
outer ring of the bearing. Between the two plates is a felt washer.
Shrouded seals - These seals consist of rubber seals retained by two
steel caps or shrouds fixed to the outer ring.
Both felt seals and shrouded seals take up extra space and are
typically only available on larger bore bearings.

There innumerable versions of bearings and selection depends on,
sometimes, very complex criteria.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2016-05-29 20:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/29/2016 2:40 PM, wrote:
With all the bikes I have I also have a bike for which I built the
wheels on old Campy record hub on the back and DuraAce on the front.

After getting this bike back from a friend who was saving it for me
while I was not in the best of health I rebuilt the wheels with new
balls and Campy grease.

I have mostly modern wheelsets from Campy or Fulcrum (the people who
make the modern Campy hubs etc.) These wheels have sealed bearings.
These sort of bothered me when I saw them because of the drag of the
seals. You can tell simply spinning the wheels in a stand. But I
imagined that with the weight of a person this would be insignificant.

For the last couple of days I have been riding the old Look and in
fact you CAN feel the difference between the open bearings and the
sealed. It does coast much further and with less noise.

Has anyone else noticed this?

FWIW, of my four most-ridden bikes, two have sealed bearing hubs and two
do not. I can't tell the difference in the hubs. Perhaps it's because
the bikes are quite different; but even on the workstand, I haven't
noticed any difference.


No wonder. Just imagine what would happen if only 2% of a sporty rider's
200W would be lost in the bearings. That would come to 1W dissipation
per bearing and they'd become very toasty. Yet they never do.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/