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#71
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Horst link bending forces
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote: lou.holtman wrote: From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality. "Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is that some casette/chainrings configuration that the pros have different? From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23 and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm. That should keep most road cyclists happy. -- Cheers, John B. For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra? You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that? Lou |
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#72
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Horst link bending forces
lou.holtman wrote:
For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra? You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that? Can you throw in a Ultegra casette and/or crankset to get the desired span? Because just now you said even with a 105 you didn't really feel the difference (when clean)? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#73
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Horst link bending forces
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 8:24:54 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote: For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra? You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that? Can you throw in a Ultegra casette and/or crankset to get the desired span? Because just now you said even with a 105 you didn't really feel the difference (when clean)? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 The problem is the capacity of the DA RD. Off course you can make it work mixing groupset parts but that is not my point. If you only want it to work buy 105 but then you get also a heavy groupset with an ugly finish. Lou |
#74
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Horst link bending forces
lou.holtman wrote:
The problem is the capacity of the DA RD. Off course you can make it work mixing groupset parts but that is not my point. If you only want it to work buy 105 but then you get also a heavy groupset with an ugly finish. Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially since you say you don't really feel any difference except for maybe when not clean and in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't continue because to feed all the porters, you need even more porters? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#75
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Horst link bending forces
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 10:19:31 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote: The problem is the capacity of the DA RD. Off course you can make it work mixing groupset parts but that is not my point. If you only want it to work buy 105 but then you get also a heavy groupset with an ugly finish. Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially since you say you don't really feel any difference except for maybe when not clean and in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't continue because to feed all the porters, you need even more porters? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 I don't know what you trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people that like the incredible shifting performance, the low weight, the looks of DA gruppo and are willing to pay the price but they also need low enough gearing which is not available in DA. From Shimano marketing point of view I find this strange because the margine of DA is much larger that of 105 or Ultegra. Lou |
#76
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Horst link bending forces
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#78
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Horst link bending forces
John B. wrote:
Certainly it wasn't designed for hauling loads up mountains. So THAT is why it didn't work Lou, as I cyclist and realist, you admit you don't need it. As a consumer, you want it, only not exactly like the product is at this stage. As a person, you are successful enough to afford it even tho, again, you yourself admit you don't need it. As an analyzer of bicycle equipment manufacture business, you think Shimano stupid not to sell it to you from a commercial point of view. And as a denier, you have come up with the "20km 11%" formula to rationalize it? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#79
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Horst link bending forces
On 2/8/2018 1:18 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote: On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote: lou.holtman wrote: From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality. "Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is that some casette/chainrings configuration that the pros have different? From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23 and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm. That should keep most road cyclists happy. -- Cheers, John B. For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra? You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that? Lou whatever. Campagnolo does low gears better now: http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd18r3.jpg -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#80
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Horst link bending forces
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 3:11:48 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2018 1:18 AM, wrote: On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote: On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote: lou.holtman wrote: From 105 and up it is hard to tell the difference when clean. I think I can tell the difference between 105 and DA especially shifting in front and braking. But is it worth the price difference? I don't know but Shimano have to realize that they make their profit because the regular cyclist buys DA components and I think it's a shame that they don't offer the proper gearing for the regular cyclist in DA quality. "Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is that some casette/chainrings configuration that the pros have different? From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23 and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm. That should keep most road cyclists happy. -- Cheers, John B. For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra? You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that? Lou whatever. Campagnolo does low gears better now: http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd18r3.jpg -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Super Record? I don't think so. Potenza I presume. Lou |
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