Beware of PowerCranks

Michael Press wrote:
In article
.net
,
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

I have an ex-brother in law who was the longest surviving person without a
main coronary artery.

Huh?
How did he live at all without a main coronary artery?
This sounds impossible.
Bill Baka

Until he got a partial heart transplant in 1999 his
blood oxygen was normally 70% or less. Proof that blood oxygen is NOT the
problem in climbing - rather lactac and excess CO2 is. BTW - he's still
alive at about 55 years old now.

No, lactate is not the problem.
You should know because you posted this URL:
URL:http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/287/3/R502

David Kerber wrote:
In article ,
says...
Grate area is closely similar to lung displacement for
physically fit racers. That is what limits climbing or TT ability,
not ankling, pedaling style or other external means.
Are you sure enough to stand behind that 100%. My lung capacity has not
changed since last years summer, but my conditioning has gotten rather
lax due to a winter spent more with the computer than the bike. I
definitely can't climb as well as last summer and it isn't due to lung
capacity. Want to rethink that one? There is also the ability to use
what air you do take in with each breath and the amount of reserve
energy in your legs.
I'm waiting for the big equation now. ;)
Bill Baka

I think he's saying that lung capacity is what *ultimately* limits your
aerobic capabilities for climing or TT'ing, when you are at the best
physical condition your genetics allow you to be. If you haven't been
training, then other things will limit you before you max out your lung
capacity.

That is probably the case, where my heavy breathing is just to charge up
some out of shape legs. I'm finding out the hard way that it is way too
easy to get out of shape and a lot more work to get back into top form.
Add the age factor and it starts to get rough.
Quoting George Burns..."I wish I was 18 again".
Bill Baka

Stu Fleming wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Bill wrote:

I don't want to make a 'me' thing out of this post

Yes, you do.

There's no "me" in "team".

What team? I can barely find a fit grandkid to ride with. They would
rather play video games. Even my friends won't ride anything with 2
wheels unless it has a 750cc (or bigger) motor.
Bill Baka

On Jun 6, 9:32 pm, Bill wrote:
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

I have an ex-brother in law who was the longest surviving person without a
main coronary artery.

Huh?
How did he live at all without a main coronary artery?
This sounds impossible.

Kunich was not being exact with terminology (what a surprise). He was
probably talking about a near complete stenosis of the left main
coronary artery. The coronary arteries are asymmetric and roughly two-
thirds of the heart's own blood supply goes through the left main (the
other third goes via the right coronary artery which mostly supplies
the back side of the heart), so when it's blocked it's A Bad Thing.

wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:32 pm, Bill wrote:
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
I have an ex-brother in law who was the longest surviving person without a
main coronary artery.
Huh?
How did he live at all without a main coronary artery?
This sounds impossible.

Kunich was not being exact with terminology (what a surprise). He was
probably talking about a near complete stenosis of the left main
coronary artery. The coronary arteries are asymmetric and roughly two-
thirds of the heart's own blood supply goes through the left main (the
other third goes via the right coronary artery which mostly supplies
the back side of the heart), so when it's blocked it's A Bad Thing.

That makes a lot more sense. He mentioned the age as 55, which is
younger than me, but I have known one guy who had to have a 5 way bypass
at 49. He's a computer network tech and I don't think he ever gets any
real exercise.
Thanks for jumping in with that.
Bill Baka

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"Phil Holman" piholmanc@yourservice wrote:

wrote in message
...
Phil Holman writes:

Wouldn't that argument mean that if you did observe a change in
VO2Max (in ml/kg/min) then the previous value was faulty and
shouldn't be used as a basis for comparison? If one subscribed
to that argument, both the improvement and VO2Max and the
improvement in power should be discounted.

It depends on the definition of VO2max. I don't see how
something
like this could be so fixed.

Yeah, I was engaging in Socratic dialog. I don't think VO2Max is
that fixed, either -- in part because of the kg vs. "lean" kg
issue. OTOH, one does have to worry about how well the initial
tests were done. Which sort of argues in favor of RCTs.

BTW, do you ever discuss the gastric freezing debacle in your
class? When I used to teach intro I used that as my cautionary
tale for RCTs (I used tuberculous meningitis as my
counter-example).

No, and searching through some articles it looks to be very
controversial. Is it universally resolved yet? For the success
stories we do the Linus Pauling vitamin C to prevent colds and the
largest medical experiment of all time with the Salk vaccine.

It's a shock to students when they see the higher contracted
numbers
of polio in the placebo group. "You mean, if they had given the
vaccine to everyone there would be a couple of hundred less
children
who contracted polio." Errrm.

This whole subject reappear under new guises because people do not
want to believe that there is a direct relationship between aerobic
capacity and performance on a bicycle.

Here we go again.


I spent years reading how ankling would improve climbing and top
speed
and that it needed to be practiced diligently. That went away only
to
be replaced by other beliefs that we can fabricate power by
trickery.

In recent times, steam RR locomotives, although not rated in Horse
Power (but rather "tractive effort", the pull at which the wheels
would spin) had a conversion chart to HP based on grate area in the
fire box which governs how much heat can be transferred to steam in
the boiler. Grate area is closely similar to lung displacement for
physically fit racers. That is what limits climbing or TT ability,
not ankling, pedaling style or other external means.

You continue to repeat this misconception. Lung displacement or lung
capacity is not the limiting factor in climbing or TTing or cycling
in
general. If you understood the cause and effect elements you would
understand that extreme "out of breath" is caused by excess CO2 in
the
blood stream as a result of lactic buffering. That is, the limits of
aerobic capacity were reached upstream (cardiac output, blood muscle
interface limitations etc) and no further limitations are imposed by
the
lungs. It wouldn't matter if you doubled lung capacity, blood lactate
concentrations wouldn't change and this is the culminating event in
limiting aerobic performance. Heavy breathing is an effect not a
cause.

As I understand it the proximate cause is mitochondrial
respiration rate overload. Cellular ATP hydrolysis in
excess of the mitochondrial respiration rate increases
H+ in the cell.


OK I'm impressed. For me its more of a notional thing.

Phil H

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...

No, lactate is not the problem.
You should know because you posted this URL:
URL:http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/287/3/R502

You're right - I'd forgotten that.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Michael Press wrote:
In article .net
,
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

I have an ex-brother in law who was the longest surviving person without
a main coronary artery.

Huh? How did he live at all without a main coronary artery?
This sounds impossible.

"Sounds" is not "is". This is a known birth defect and occurs often enough
that they were familiar with the condition when they shoved a catheter
through the deadend of the coronary artery. In his case the minor arteries
and a hole between the chambers of his heart sufficed to keep him alive
though he was a blue baby. His whole life each succeeding doctor told him
that he only had a couple of months to a year to live.

He is now about 55 and back in the mid-90's they replaced 25% of his heart
with one that had a coronary artery on it and then later they had to go in
and replace the valve with a mechanical valve. And then that valve failed
and they had to replace it again.

He stood for the bar and passed so he knew what his rights were and managed
to maintain health insurance his whole life with Kaiser. Believe me they
grumbled a whole lot but they have kept him alive and he has two daughters
and worked most of his life.

After he had his heart repaired and his VO2 went from 70% to 99% he acted
like a drunk for a couple of years until he adjusted to not having oxygen
his whole life.

As Robert pointed out, I've been using the incorrect names - my
ex-brother-in-law was born WITH a coronary artery but without the AORTA
believe it not.

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
link.net...
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Michael Press wrote:
In article .net
,
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

I have an ex-brother in law who was the longest surviving person
without a main coronary artery.

Huh? How did he live at all without a main coronary artery?
This sounds impossible.

"Sounds" is not "is". This is a known birth defect and occurs often enough
that they were familiar with the condition when they shoved a catheter
through the deadend of the coronary artery. In his case the minor arteries
and a hole between the chambers of his heart sufficed to keep him alive
though he was a blue baby. His whole life each succeeding doctor told him
that he only had a couple of months to a year to live.

He is now about 55 and back in the mid-90's they replaced 25% of his heart
with one that had a coronary artery on it and then later they had to go in
and replace the valve with a mechanical valve. And then that valve failed
and they had to replace it again.

He stood for the bar and passed so he knew what his rights were and
managed to maintain health insurance his whole life with Kaiser. Believe
me they grumbled a whole lot but they have kept him alive and he has two
daughters and worked most of his life.

After he had his heart repaired and his VO2 went from 70% to 99% he acted
like a drunk for a couple of years until he adjusted to not having oxygen
his whole life.

Tom Kunich wrote:
As Robert pointed out, I've been using the incorrect names - my
ex-brother-in-law was born WITH a coronary artery but without the AORTA
believe it not.

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
link.net...
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Michael Press wrote:
In article .net
,
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
I have an ex-brother in law who was the longest surviving person
without a main coronary artery.
Huh? How did he live at all without a main coronary artery?
This sounds impossible.
"Sounds" is not "is". This is a known birth defect and occurs often enough
that they were familiar with the condition when they shoved a catheter
through the deadend of the coronary artery. In his case the minor arteries
and a hole between the chambers of his heart sufficed to keep him alive
though he was a blue baby. His whole life each succeeding doctor told him
that he only had a couple of months to a year to live.

He is now about 55 and back in the mid-90's they replaced 25% of his heart
with one that had a coronary artery on it and then later they had to go in
and replace the valve with a mechanical valve. And then that valve failed
and they had to replace it again.

He stood for the bar and passed so he knew what his rights were and
managed to maintain health insurance his whole life with Kaiser. Believe
me they grumbled a whole lot but they have kept him alive and he has two
daughters and worked most of his life.

After he had his heart repaired and his VO2 went from 70% to 99% he acted
like a drunk for a couple of years until he adjusted to not having oxygen
his whole life.




Kind of amazing story there. If he lived all that time and there are
more like him that really does make for a survival tale.
Cheers,
Bill Baka