Buying a MTB helmet from the US

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:31:24 +1100
Dre wrote:
Yes the helmets are exactly the same in the US as they are here, same
name,
model number, everything, apart from the Australian approval.


dunno about pushbike helmets but that is not always the case with
motorcycle helmets.

There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
*failed* the Oz test.

Zebee

Btw, would you be comfortable naming that brand of motorcycle helmet? so I
can steer clear...

Cheers Dre

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
*failed* the Oz test.

They're the same thing. The Australian Standards AS1698 for motorcycle
helmets means it needs to pass a series of tests according to the standard
before being passed.

Basically, the australian importer brings a couple in for evaluation and
testing. One is sent to a testing lab that does that kind of thing, and if it
passes, they go through the formality of ordering stickers for them. (there
may be a couple of helmets, as some of the tests are destructive).

You probably know all this.

Just because one helmet is ok in the US and not here, is not because the
helmet is different, (they're all ordered from the same place regardless) but
the test procedures.

There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
US, but won't pass here.

It only means the _tests_ are different.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

"Dorfus Dippintush" wrote in message
...
TimC wrote:
On 2007-10-18, John Tserkezis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Dre wrote:

The problem is, if I get one from the US, it wont be Australian
approved. My question is, since the helmets are identical apart from
the Australian approval, whats generally frowned apon when doing this??
...
As far as I'm aware, something like the blue mountain fire trails,
since they're not "public roads" you're on your own again, so again,
since you're the only one responsible, it would be in your best interest
to wear an effective hat.

And if you are able to get a higher specced helmet, cheaper, from the
US, then trust your head to the cheaper more effective US model
helmet. Stupid laws; stupid protectionalist trade policies. QED.


What rules would you propose Tim?

No rules!

Cheers Dre

"John Tserkezis" wrote in message
...
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
*failed* the Oz test.

They're the same thing. The Australian Standards AS1698 for motorcycle
helmets means it needs to pass a series of tests according to the standard
before being passed.

Basically, the australian importer brings a couple in for evaluation and
testing. One is sent to a testing lab that does that kind of thing, and
if it passes, they go through the formality of ordering stickers for them.
(there may be a couple of helmets, as some of the tests are destructive).

You probably know all this.

Just because one helmet is ok in the US and not here, is not because the
helmet is different, (they're all ordered from the same place regardless)
but the test procedures.

There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in
the US, but won't pass here.

It only means the _tests_ are different.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

Good information!

If however the same models (in fact the entire 661 full face range is
avaiable in both the US and here) are sold both here and in the US, its a
pretty good indication that the US ones would pass the Australian tests IMO.

hmmmm, its more and more looking like I'll be getting a US one and not
making it common knowledge where I got it from

Cheers Dre

Dre wrote:

If however the same models (in fact the entire 661 full face range is
avaiable in both the US and here) are sold both here and in the US, its a
pretty good indication that the US ones would pass the Australian tests IMO.

Yes, they are the same thing after all.

You don't get anyone in the US getting an Australian accreditation for
testing of equipment simply because they don't care. And neither should they,
what would they gain?
Likewise, you don't get australians looking at US testing because it won't
mean a damn here.

That and, it's quite expensive.

I was at a bike show several years back, and the seller at the time said
they were NOT Australian Standards tested, and were selling them accordingly
cheaper.

Turns out some time later, someone forked out for the testing anyway, and
continued to sell those at more "normal" price points.

hmmmm, its more and more looking like I'll be getting a US one and not
making it common knowledge where I got it from

Look. There are several reasons why there are accreditations on helmets,
most involve money:

The road rules say you must wear an AS2063 approved helmet on the road or
you will be fined. A simple check of the tamperproof sticker will prove that
on the road.
In the event the sticker was removed for whatever reason, you pay up.

During injury, the insurance company says among other condtions, competitors
must be wearing an AS2063 approved helmet or they won't cover them. In turn,
the organisers don't want to be out of pocket due to injuries (that's why they
have insurance!) so they enforce this by checking on entry.
If something was missed during the initial checks, the insurance company
will verify the validity of the helmet (among other thing). If anything is
amiss, they throw up their hands and say 'where not touching it'.

On a similar note, something closer to what I used to do, a piece of noise
measuring equipment was used to verify a noisy air-conditioner. So they take
the owners of the air-conditioner to court.
The defendant asks to see if the equipment was used correctly, and when it
was last checked. A sticker verifies it was last checked to whatever relevant
AS standards, and the certificate is produced, proving the test was performed,
passed and last done within the time limit.
If anything was amiss, such as the certificate couldn't be produced, the
case is thrown out.


As far as the end-user is concerned, all it does is prove the samples sent
out for testing passed the tests.
You don't know if it _barely_ made it, or if it passed with so many flying
colours it may as well be freaking rainbow.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:52:14 +1100
Dre wrote:
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message

There is at least one model of motorcycle helmet that is the same name
and model number but the Oz one is different as the US version
*failed* the Oz test.

Btw, would you be comfortable naming that brand of motorcycle helmet? so I
can steer clear...

It is no longer made - it was an early version of the BMW System
Helmet.

So no, no cheapie or fly by night. The problem apparently was that
the Oz standard required more penetration resistance than the Euro
standard did. It is also different to the DOT and Snell standards but
I can't recall the exact differences.

The bod who does the testing for Australian compliance is in Sydney
and will wax eloquent about all this if given beer.

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:11:43 +1000
John Tserkezis wrote:

There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
US, but won't pass here.

It only means the _tests_ are different.

In this case, they changed the helmet to pass Oz standards.

I dunno if anyone else has done that, but BMW did.

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:25:39 +1000
John Tserkezis wrote:

As far as the end-user is concerned, all it does is prove the samples sent
out for testing passed the tests.
You don't know if it _barely_ made it, or if it passed with so many flying
colours it may as well be freaking rainbow.

can't speak for pushbike helmets, the guy who does the testing for
motorcycle helmets says that in his experience the cheapies seem to do
no worse than the expensive ones. That as far as he can tell you are
paying for finish and fittings, not for increased safety.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
US, but won't pass here.

It only means the _tests_ are different.

In this case, they changed the helmet to pass Oz standards.
I dunno if anyone else has done that, but BMW did.

What part of the helmet was changed? I really don't see anything major once
initial testing is done and production has already started...

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:01:43 +1000
John Tserkezis wrote:
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

There have been many cases cited for equipment that was established in the
US, but won't pass here.

It only means the _tests_ are different.

In this case, they changed the helmet to pass Oz standards.
I dunno if anyone else has done that, but BMW did.

What part of the helmet was changed? I really don't see anything major once
initial testing is done and production has already started...

THey added extra internal material to the skull to pass the
penetration test. made the lid heavier. System 2 I think, but it may
have been the original System 1.

Zebee