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#91
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: [...] There is not much training involved in riding an upright. After all, you are in an almost standing position on such a bike.[...] If a person does not regularly train on an upright bicycle, it will literally be a pain in the ass on anything but short rides. Yes, I agree about the pain factor. But I am maintaining that there is something about positioning on a recumbent that militates against efficiency. I don't think you can improve on being situated right over the crank where the gravitational effect is maximized as well as the pumping motion of blood circulating in your legs. On final consideration, a laid back position is a resting position, not a working position. The psychology is all wrong. However, there is no one who is a greater proponent of recumbents than yours truly. But recumbents are all about comfort and not much else. Anyone who gets them for any other reason is quite mistaken. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
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#92
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
Hmmm, I'm seeing that side of the Ed Dolan character that I don't much care
for. There is no real dialog with him so I think we can call this conversation finished. Best Always, Jeff "Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message m... "Edward Dolan" wrote in message news:qsKdnaJstswNEG_UnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@prairiewave. com... You couldn't be more wrong! Quality can be measured in the arts, but not by the numbers. It is measured by deferring to the opinions of our betters. Who are our betters? Experts and connoisseurs are our betters - folks who have spent their lives following the arts. These have been mostly European aristocrats, not bourgeois slobs like you and me. I have enough sense to know who my betters are. And the funny thing is, they are never wrong in the aggregate. There is nothing subjective about the arts. It can be ranked and rated just like anything else, only not by the numbers. If you were correct then we should all know clearly what is good and what is not but there seems to be some confusion about it. What you call quality, my son would call crap. You could line up the experts from one end of the earth to other (note: the earth doesn't have ends) and he would still call it crap. The reverse would be true. Who's right? Your 16 year old son has not lived long enough to know anything worth knowing. If he is in fact your son, he may never know anything about quality - just like you don't. After all, he may end up a chip off the old block. You because you know who the experts and and have consulted them? What a ridiculous argument. Expertise is easily available on every subject under the sun. Libraries storehouse this kind of wisdom. The arts are entirely subjective. I remember I was once shown a monograph (big expensive book of pictures of paintings) by an artist who's whole schtick was painting a canvas one solid color and then painting one or two vertical stripes of another color. I thought it was the was crazy that anyone would want to own these thing or would pay anything for them. The monograph sold for hundreds of dollars. The paintings themselves all sold for the 5 figures or more. The experts had spoken and this mans paintings of stripes were quality. Give me a break! I wouldn't pay money for either the paintings or the monographs but your "betters" do and in no small number. Such art galleries are only trafficking in what sells. Again, it is about popularity, not quality. You have to wait a few generations before final pronouncements can be arrived at. The arts are fashion. Sometimes they are sold. Even those things that are considered timeless (Bach comes to mind) don't find a universal audience. It is subjective. It has always been subjective. It will always be subjective. That is why there are different sections in the record store (if you can find a record store). Nope, I don't particularly like Bach (way too religious to suit me) but his art is great art and it doesn't matter what you and I think about it. Nor does it matter in the least what your idiot 16 year old son thinks about it either. There is absolutely nothing subjective about Bach if you belong to Western Civilization. If you want to opt out of Western Civilization, that is fine with me, but if you don't, then you are subject to the tried and true opinion of our betters. Anyone who thinks all opinions are equal (subjective and nothing but a fashion) is clearly an idiot. Good luck finding a measure for quality that matters to anyone other than you. If you are going to tell me that what matters to others isn't important, well then you've proved my point for me that quality is subjective. The measures are everywhere, but you are too lazy and arrogant to educate yourself. Like most, you think your confounded opinion is as good as anyone else's. Therefore, everything can be subjective to you. It is how you justify your abominably bad taste to yourself. But the ages say differently. You and your opinions will be left in the dust bin of history. All that counts in the end are expert opinions, not popularity in the moment. And those expert opinions are as true as any so-called hard scientific facts. "The arts are entirely subjective." No more ridiculous statement has ever been made. My suggestion to you is to enjoy whatever it is that you enjoy, but please, do not think for a moment that you have a clue about quality in the arts. Leave that to the cultural elites. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#93
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! Hmmm, I'm seeing that side of the Ed Dolan character that I don't much care for. There is no real dialog with him so I think we can call this conversation finished. You are not used to being disagreed with in a forceful fashion. In order to have a dialogue, you have to say something sensible. Since you refuse to do that, you are quite right. I am better off talking to the wall than to you. [...] Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#94
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
Oh you sweet little button pusher you! Have fun with the wall!
Jeff "Edward Dolan" wrote in message news:PMadnRnsC_55K2jUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@prairiewave. com... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! Hmmm, I'm seeing that side of the Ed Dolan character that I don't much care for. There is no real dialog with him so I think we can call this conversation finished. You are not used to being disagreed with in a forceful fashion. In order to have a dialogue, you have to say something sensible. Since you refuse to do that, you are quite right. I am better off talking to the wall than to you. [...] Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#95
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message m... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! Oh you sweet little button pusher you! Have fun with the wall! Jeff And you have fun talking to your 16 year old idiot son whom I am sure is like all 16 year olds - they do not know **** from shinola. Maybe when you tire of his rap, you can also attack his character, ever the last refuge of liberal scoundrels when they have lost an argument. [...] Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota "Edward Dolan" wrote in message news:PMadnRnsC_55K2jUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@prairiewave. com... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! Hmmm, I'm seeing that side of the Ed Dolan character that I don't much care for. There is no real dialog with him so I think we can call this conversation finished. You are not used to being disagreed with in a forceful fashion. In order to have a dialogue, you have to say something sensible. Since you refuse to do that, you are quite right. I am better off talking to the wall than to you. [...] |
#96
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
You know what they say (and I'm paraphrasing here)...Flattery will get you
top posting... All the best, Ed. Jeff "Edward Dolan" wrote in message news:P5mdnRUEkowIMGvUnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@prairiewave. com... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message m... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! Oh you sweet little button pusher you! Have fun with the wall! Jeff And you have fun talking to your 16 year old idiot son whom I am sure is like all 16 year olds - they do not know **** from shinola. Maybe when you tire of his rap, you can also attack his character, ever the last refuge of liberal scoundrels when they have lost an argument. [...] Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota "Edward Dolan" wrote in message news:PMadnRnsC_55K2jUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@prairiewave. com... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS! Hmmm, I'm seeing that side of the Ed Dolan character that I don't much care for. There is no real dialog with him so I think we can call this conversation finished. You are not used to being disagreed with in a forceful fashion. In order to have a dialogue, you have to say something sensible. Since you refuse to do that, you are quite right. I am better off talking to the wall than to you. [...] |
#97
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:09:22 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote: Edward Dolan wrote: [...] There is not much training involved in riding an upright. After all, you are in an almost standing position on such a bike.[...] If a person does not regularly train on an upright bicycle, it will literally be a pain in the ass on anything but short rides. I can vouch for that, even 20 mins on a DF on my rollers last week was enough to induce a pain in the ass, tingling in my balls and an ache in my lumbar region. -- |
#98
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
On Apr 26, 12:25 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
snip Ed, you just don't get the point. Climbing on a wedgie takes training, climbing on a 'bent takes training, if you are trained for climbing on a wedgie then your muscles are not trained for climbing on a 'bent. With my personal power to weight ratio I will never be an "Angel" in the mountains, but after training on my Stratus I was no slower climbing than I had been riding my mountain bike on road slicks at the same weight. It isn't that 'bents are any worse at climbing than wedgies it's that 'bents use different muscles that need to be trained to the same level as wedgie riders. There is not much training involved in riding an upright. After all, you are in an almost standing position on such a bike. Recumbents are drastically different as you are truly in a sitting position, sometimes an almost lying down position. This is not an attitude conducive to work nor friendly to leg motion. I hope I don't have to explain to you how gravity works and how blood circulates in our legs. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota I respectfully disagree on the training to ride an upright. If it didn't require training then why are so few people out racing bikes up hills? If it didn't require training then people should be able to just hop on a bike and fly up a hill. And as for the circulation strawman, blood has to be able to get out as well as in, and the legs high(er) position of a recumbent helps drainage of blood. In fact for the first 4 or 5 years after my last wreck I could only ride recumbents for that very reason. But the situation remains that riding 'bent requires different muscles firing at different places in the pedal stroke than riding wedgie, and not only that but different types of 'bents require different muscles than other 'bents. Unless you're riding a Varna which was designed to use the exact same muscles and timing as a wedgie so that his favorite motors could train on road and mountain bikes until Battle Mountain, and still be able to break the speed limits of 37 states. Opus |
#99
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
"Mike" wrote in message news On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:09:22 -0500, Tom Sherman wrote: Edward Dolan wrote: [...] There is not much training involved in riding an upright. After all, you are in an almost standing position on such a bike.[...] If a person does not regularly train on an upright bicycle, it will literally be a pain in the ass on anything but short rides. I can vouch for that, even 20 mins on a DF on my rollers last week was enough to induce a pain in the ass, tingling in my balls and an ache in my lumbar region. The conventional upright road bicycle with the typical saddle will cause all kinds of groin problems, some of which can be quite serious and permanent. Upright bicycles handle well and you can be fast on them, but they are not friendly to the human body. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#100
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Bicycling Magazine - Time to Vent!
"Opus" wrote in message ... On Apr 26, 12:25 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote: snip Ed, you just don't get the point. Climbing on a wedgie takes training, climbing on a 'bent takes training, if you are trained for climbing on a wedgie then your muscles are not trained for climbing on a 'bent. With my personal power to weight ratio I will never be an "Angel" in the mountains, but after training on my Stratus I was no slower climbing than I had been riding my mountain bike on road slicks at the same weight. It isn't that 'bents are any worse at climbing than wedgies it's that 'bents use different muscles that need to be trained to the same level as wedgie riders. There is not much training involved in riding an upright. After all, you are in an almost standing position on such a bike. Recumbents are drastically different as you are truly in a sitting position, sometimes an almost lying down position. This is not an attitude conducive to work nor friendly to leg motion. I hope I don't have to explain to you how gravity works and how blood circulates in our legs. I respectfully disagree on the training to ride an upright. If it didn't require training then why are so few people out racing bikes up hills? If it didn't require training then people should be able to just hop on a bike and fly up a hill. No one ever just flies up hills on a bicycle no matter how much training they have had. It is hard work to climb hills on any kind of bicycle, but it is much harder on a recumbent. And as for the circulation strawman, blood has to be able to get out as well as in, and the legs high(er) position of a recumbent helps drainage of blood. In fact for the first 4 or 5 years after my last wreck I could only ride recumbents for that very reason. As upright primates, blood circulation in our legs is designed for an upright position - or did evolution not get it right after hundreds of thousands of years of working on the problem? But the situation remains that riding 'bent requires different muscles firing at different places in the pedal stroke than riding wedgie, and not only that but different types of 'bents require different muscles than other 'bents. Unless you're riding a Varna which was designed to use the exact same muscles and timing as a wedgie so that his favorite motors could train on road and mountain bikes until Battle Mountain, and still be able to break the speed limits of 37 states. I am not saying that training those leg muscles does not count. I am simply saying that an upright is more conducive to that training since it is an upright position, one that nature designed us for. But we humans need seats, not saddles. Only recumbents will give us a proper seat. The ideal way to ride an upright would be with no saddle at all. It would consist of standing and peddling only. That would most closely parallel walking and running. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
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