Giant LAFree Lite electric bike - comments LONG

We're a late 50's couple who haven't ridden in many years who bought two of
these about 3 months now and put on a bit over 300 miles so far. Bottom line
is that I highly recommend them if this is your kind of bike. If you're a
purist, don't read any further.

How they work:
These are not electric motorcycles, you have to pedal to move. What they
do is provide an electric assist, up to 130% of your effort (torque) in
normal mode, 100% in eco mode, 0% if switched off at which point they are 47
lb comfort bikes. The motor drives through the same 4 speed hub the pedal
effort goes through, so shifting changes the motor's gearing also. The
assist tails off as your cadence increases, dropping to 0 at about 70 rpm in
each gear - about 18 mph in 4th with stock gearing. One odd effect of this
is a massive assist at 0 rpm, i.e. when you are starting off from rest. You
need to be careful of this at first, although it's great for crossing an
intersection. Because you get more assist at lower cadence, it's easier and
faster to go up hill in a higher gear and lower cadence than on a
non-assisted bike. On steep hills, I'm normally in 2nd at about 50-55 rpm,
about 8.5 - 10 mph in eco mode.

What they're like to ride:
As a friend put it: "They make you feel like superman!". When you pedal,
the assist comes on automatically, instantly and proportionally to your
effort, so the effect is to lower the pedal pressure you have to exert.
There is a slight gear sound when the power is on which tapers off as the
assist decreases. On level ground the bike quickly gets up to about 17.5 mph
where it is providing a slight assist, just enough to make it very easy to
maintain speed. Hills are the real win though. When we started with these,
we were not cyclists at all, but even so were able to go up an 11% hill at
about 7 mph in full power (now we do it at about 10 mph in eco). We were in
Quebec City recently and biked along the St Lawrence about 20 miles out and
back, mostly with power off. However, we then had to climb back up to the
upper ville which is a very steep ascent, plus we were getting pretty tired.
Turning on to full power let us get back to our hotel in a few minutes and
without cardiac arrest. We were both surprised at how well this worked.

The other time we use power a lot is in traffic. It allows much faster
acceleration and sustained speed, so we can cross intersections and maneuver
in traffic much more confidently.

Currently we're at the level of casual cyclists, that is, with the power
off, we easily stay with people (much younger) who ride on level ground a
few miles per week, but get passed by everyone who's a serious cyclist. We
normally ride with the power off on level ground up to about 20 miles at
about 11 mph, turning the power on when going up hills or into a stiff
headwind. However, after about 20 miles, we're both pretty pooped, so we use
the eco mode as a "get home" assist. On reasonably level ground, we find
switching on to eco mode is much like stopping for a break and often will do
that for awhile then switch off again after we've recovered a bit. Of
course, you're still moving at 12-14 mph during this break. Another use for
power is that if you go somewhere and stop for lunch your muscles cool down
and getting started again can be a real drag even on level ground. Again,
turning on eco mode lets you start pedaling to warm up, but with very low
pedal pressure, so soon you're feeling good and can shut the power off.

We use these to get to our commuter bus, about 5.5 miles each way, and
are pretty much always a bit later than we'd like,
so are trying to make time riding with eco on. This is a moderately hilly
road with two 100 ft climbs and descents, one the 11% hill mentioned above.
Currently, carrying over 10 lbs of laptops and miscellaneous junk, we
average about 15.3 mph and arrive only slightly sweaty if the air temps are
below 75F or so.

Range and fitness:
When we started, with full power on over terrain like our commute above,
averaging 13+ mph, the range was about 18 miles. In our current state, in
eco mode, averaging 15+ mph the range is about 27 miles. On level ground in
our current shape the limit is our endurancesince we don't really use the
power much. On the above Quebec ride we rode over 20 miles and used less
than 20% of the battery and both felt we could have gone another 10 miles or
so if we were in eco mode. I doubt we would have used more than half the
battery at that point. For someone with good endurance, on a reasonably
level road, the range would be very large if they only used the power for
hills.

The real limit to range is the rider's endurance, how many hills you use
power on, and how fast you want to get somewhere. We like riding with the
power off both to get some more exercise, and for the silence. The motor
isn't that noisy, but it's there. One effect we've noticed is that with the
power on, the speed is seductive. You are tempted to pedal harder than you
otherwise might because even with the minimal assist at the top end the
speed is great and the motor noise keeps lessening at you get up to and
exceed 18 mph. For people like us who are decidedly not athletes, the bikes
make getting out a lot of fun and we've both noticed our pants getting
looser (although I haven't seen any weight loss). As they say, the best
exercise is the one you actually do.

In article ,
"Ralph" wrote:

We're a late 50's couple who haven't ridden in many years who bought two of
these about 3 months now and put on a bit over 300 miles so far. Bottom line
is that I highly recommend them if this is your kind of bike. If you're a
purist, don't read any further.

Interesting ride report. Sounds like you're enjoying them.

The real limit to range is the rider's endurance, how many hills you use
power on, and how fast you want to get somewhere. We like riding with the
power off both to get some more exercise, and for the silence. The motor
isn't that noisy, but it's there. One effect we've noticed is that with the
power on, the speed is seductive. You are tempted to pedal harder than you
otherwise might because even with the minimal assist at the top end the
speed is great and the motor noise keeps lessening at you get up to and
exceed 18 mph. For people like us who are decidedly not athletes, the bikes
make getting out a lot of fun and we've both noticed our pants getting
looser (although I haven't seen any weight loss). As they say, the best
exercise is the one you actually do.

18 mph is a pretty good speed, but of course you understand the lack of
attraction for most cyclists: 30 km/h (just over 18 mph) sustained speed
on level ground is a pretty good goal for a cyclist after a year or two
of regular riding. After just over two years of regular bike commuting
and a bit of recreational racing, I did a 100 km ride at around 25 km/h,
including a food-and-bathroom break at the control point.

Regarding the loose pants, I just wanted to reassure you: you're losing
fat like crazy, but its being replaced by muscle mass. This means you
get leaner and more muscular (which is good!) before you actually see
any weight loss. Quite normal, and all to the good. Don't worry: the
lack of weight loss doesn't mean you don't look better .

I will keep something like this in mind for people I know. Until it is
capable of sustained flat speeds of 50 km/h, I'm not interested. Right
now my goal is to TT at 50 for 1-2 km at a time. Because that would be
crazy-fast, and allow me to keep up with traffic .

-RjC.
--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"Ralph" wrote:
We're a late 50's couple who haven't ridden in many years who bought two of
these about 3 months now and put on a bit over 300 miles so far. Bottom line
is that I highly recommend them if this is your kind of bike. If you're a
purist, don't read any further.

I guess I might be a 'purist' but I've long felt that if electric
bikes can get a few people out of their cars, then they have to be a
good thing. I really enjoyed reading your experiences.

We normally ride with the power off on level ground up to about 20 miles
at about 11 mph, turning the power on when going up hills or into a stiff
headwind. However, after about 20 miles, we're both pretty pooped, so we use
the eco mode as a "get home" assist.

As you say, with the power off 'they are 47lb comfort bikes'. I can't
help thinking that with the level of fitness you now have, you'd be
able to ride 20 miles at 11mph quite comfortably on a normal bike and
still have plenty of energy left to get home.

Still, they work for you and you're enjoying them so keep it up!

Regards,
Mike

I guess I might be a 'purist' but I've long felt that
if electric bikes can get a few people out of their cars,
then they have to be a good thing.

=v= "Purist" is, of course, and _ad_hominem_ deflection.
As for getting people out of their cars, gee, it sure would
be nice if these "electric bikes are great" messages would
be posted to an automobiles newsgroup. Just once, at least.
_Jym_

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ralph" wrote:
snip
I will keep something like this in mind for people I know. Until it is
capable of sustained flat speeds of 50 km/h, I'm not interested. Right
now my goal is to TT at 50 for 1-2 km at a time. Because that would be
crazy-fast, and allow me to keep up with traffic .

Well, as a motorcycle rider and hotrodder in a previous life, I've wondered
about that kind of speed too. With an 8 speed hub and geared to have a
cadence of about 60 at 30 mph so the assist is still on strong, I think it
might well be possible to maintain 30 mph on the level. You'd probably go
through the battery pretty quickly, but I'd think it would still have a
range of 10 - 15 miles.

Stronger legs first though before doing anything else.

DISCLAIMER: Regearing is probably illegal, so don't even think of it.

(Mike Farnes) wrote:

As you say, with the power off 'they are 47lb comfort bikes'. I can't
help thinking that with the level of fitness you now have, you'd be
able to ride 20 miles at 11mph quite comfortably on a normal bike and
still have plenty of energy left to get home.

I have unpowered bikes in the twenty-something pound range and in the
forty-something pound range, and I don't find it noticeably easier to
do given speeds or distances on the lightweight ones. As long as the
drive system of the LA Free Lite does not impose an extra source of
significant drag on the bike, it should not handicap performance very
much vs. a lighter bike of otherwise similar design.

Chalo Colina

I've coasted on level ground beside people with pretty serious road bikes
and stayed with them.

Actually though, that's another effect with these bikes. With the assist,
going uphill isn't a problem, however, because of their extra weight (not to
mention my own), the energy you built up going uphill really shines going
down - you fly. I've hit over 33 mph coasting downhill. It's also amazing to
me that 30 mph on a bike is as much fun as 90 on a motorcycle (not like 140
though).

"Chalo" wrote in message
om...
(Mike Farnes) wrote:
I have unpowered bikes in the twenty-something pound range and in the
forty-something pound range, and I don't find it noticeably easier to
do given speeds or distances on the lightweight ones. As long as the
drive system of the LA Free Lite does not impose an extra source of
significant drag on the bike, it should not handicap performance very
much vs. a lighter bike of otherwise similar design.

"Ralph" wrote in message
...
Range and fitness:
When we started, with full power on over terrain like our commute above,
averaging 13+ mph, the range was about 18 miles. In our current state, in
eco mode, averaging 15+ mph the range is about 27 miles. On level ground in
our current shape the limit is our endurancesince we don't really use the
power much. On the above Quebec ride we rode over 20 miles and used less
than 20% of the battery and both felt we could have gone another 10 miles or
so if we were in eco mode. I doubt we would have used more than half the
battery at that point. For someone with good endurance, on a reasonably
level road, the range would be very large if they only used the power for
hills.

The real limit to range is the rider's endurance, how many hills you use
power on, and how fast you want to get somewhere. We like riding with the
power off both to get some more exercise, and for the silence. The motor
isn't that noisy, but it's there. One effect we've noticed is that with the
power on, the speed is seductive. You are tempted to pedal harder than you
otherwise might because even with the minimal assist at the top end the
speed is great and the motor noise keeps lessening at you get up to and
exceed 18 mph. For people like us who are decidedly not athletes, the bikes
make getting out a lot of fun and we've both noticed our pants getting
looser (although I haven't seen any weight loss). As they say, the best
exercise is the one you actually do.



The LAFree Lite is a great design, it fees like a real bike and makes the
inexperienced rider feel strong and confident. I have one that I use
occasionally, but it really belongs to my wife now. The range "on level ground"
is pretty much theoretical in Seattle since there is very little level ground to
be found. I found the range is easily 20 miles in moderate hills, and that was
after switching from a 20 tooth to an 18 tooth cog in the back. The bike is
heavy and the position is very upright so it very difficult to exceed 20 mph
since the power assist rolls off at 18 or 19 mph. As I said, I don't ride it
much because my road bike is faster and has unlimited range :-) but the electric
was instrumental in getting me in condition to ride it after some years of
inactivity.

Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:08:13 -0700,
,
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Right
now my goal is to TT at 50 for 1-2 km at a time. Because that would be
crazy-fast, and allow me to keep up with traffic

Riding a TT is not like riding in traffic.
In traffic you've got to keep your head up.
--
zk

In article ,
Zoot Katz wrote:

Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:08:13 -0700,
,
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Right
now my goal is to TT at 50 for 1-2 km at a time. Because that would be
crazy-fast, and allow me to keep up with traffic

Riding a TT is not like riding in traffic.
In traffic you've got to keep your head up.

Oh, I know that. I commute nearly the entire length of Columbia street.
There are busier, faster, narrower roads in town, but not a whole lot.
It took me about two months to get off the sidewalk and onto the roads
on that route; being able to do a steady 40 km/h on the flat section is
a real help.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club