The best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city...

What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city?
Why?

1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement.

2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those who
kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto), was
thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105
fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving
offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist
and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault.
Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist
should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits to
society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people
start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a cyclists
utopia.

3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely

4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure.
Widen streets or remove extra lane.

5) Extensive system of bike paths

6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like
drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks
should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists on
the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion,
reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of
cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system) etc.).

7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in
traffic

I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't
change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now.
The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are.

That's what I think,

Paul

"Paul R" writes:

Widen streets or remove extra lane.

What do you mean here? I am not sure I understand what you propose.

Dragan

--
Dragan Cvetkovic,

To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer

!!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!

"Dragan Cvetkovic" wrote in message
...
"Paul R" writes:

Widen streets or remove extra lane.

What do you mean here? I am not sure I understand what you propose.

Dragan


Some people believe that bike lanes are inherently unsafe. They believe that
the best way to ensure drivers treat cyclists with respect is to have
cyclists part of traffic.

Personally, I feel safest on streets with extra wide curb lanes.

If a street has two lanes travelling the same direction, one lane could be
removed and dedicated to cyclists.

During rush hour here in downtown Toronto (at least in summer), there are
often upwards of 5-10 or even more bikes waiting at a stop light. they could
almost fill up a car lane.

Cheers,
Paul

"Paul R" wrote in :

What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a
city? Why?

1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement.

2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for
those who kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave
(in Toronto), was thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points
(out of 15) and $105 fine). Take away the driving priviliges for
repeat dangerous driving offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY
altercation between a cyclist and motorized vehicle, the motorized
vehicle should be held 100% at fault. Likewise, in any altercation
between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist should be held 100%
responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits to society
outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people start
screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a cyclists
utopia.

3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely

4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing
infrastructure. Widen streets or remove extra lane.

5) Extensive system of bike paths

6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work
(like drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.).
These breaks should reflect the improvements to society gained by
having more cyclists on the road (improved safety for cyclists,
improved air, reduced congestion, reduced noise, reduced use of
materials and energy, improved health of cyclist (more important in
Canada than US with public health system) etc.).

7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride
safely in traffic

I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws
won't change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as
it is now. The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are.

That's what I think,

Paul




2,3,4 and 6. Europeans make it work, USA can too!

Dan

Cell phones and drunk drivers are a bikers worst nightmare!

"Paul R" wrote in message ...
What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a
city?
Why?

1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement.

YES


2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those
who
kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto),
was
thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105
fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving
offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist
and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault.
Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist
should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits
to
society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people
start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a
cyclists
utopia.

YES


3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely

YES


4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure.
Widen streets or remove extra lane.

YES


5) Extensive system of bike paths

YES


6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like
drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks
should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists
on
the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion,
reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of
cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system)
etc.).

YES


7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely
in
traffic

YES


I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't
change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now.
The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are.

That's what I think,

Paul



One change wont solve the problem, byt make significant changes to
everything, and the problem is less than a problem


Micheal

Paul R wrote:

What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a city?
Why?

4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure.
Widen streets or remove extra lane.

#4, definitely. Why? Because wider lanes work. As does traffic
calming.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

"Dragan Cvetkovic" wrote in message
...
"Paul R" writes:

Widen streets or remove extra lane.

What do you mean here? I am not sure I understand what you propose.

My assumption is that what is proposed here is the reduction of a four-lane
street to three. This has several benefits:
a. central two-way turn lane means that through-traffic is not delayed by
left-turning traffic
b. room is created for shoulder or bike lane
c. the traffic lanes look narrower to the motorists and thus vehicle speeds
are diminished, as demonstrated in Portland, Oregon (USA).
(http://www.lakesammfriends.org/BikeL...lmTraffic.html)


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

1. Seeing that the protective Styrofoam hat is the last (and pretty much
least important) factor in a mishap, I would leave it there. I hate to
think of all the kids who have died after their parents filled their heads
with little more information than how magically powerful their fancy helmet
was.

2. I agree, but more precisely, our first problem is we treat traffic laws
like etiquette. People who speed everywhere (like everyone else) and think
it is A-OK despite the death toll, are inflamed by a cyclist running a stop
sign - a cyclist who could do little more to them than scratch their paint.

3. Drivers will just ignore whatever training they feel isn't important to
them. You have to change the whole situation. In the US (and third world)
cyclists are seen as reckless suicidal road-kill. It is more than just
traffic safety.

4. Instead of attempting to re-route present spending to change how we build
roads, stop the nearly 1 trillion a year subsidizing drivers that keeps
people from cycling. The #1 factor in making cycling safe is more cyclists
on the roads. Property taxes pay for roads, fire and police services for
accidents, runoff, etc. Income taxes pay to defend oil. And let's not
forget "free" parking. If driving suddenly became a dime or three more
expensive per mile, you would see more cycling.

5. NO NO NO. The reason we made bike paths is because we disconnected all
our side streets. I never needed a bike path where I grew up, and I never
bicycled more than a few blocks on a major road. Mandate that any new
subdivision be connected at least via bike path, and any isolated
subdivisions be connected where feasible. If we would never have provided
free urban school bussing (saving all the money for education, not
transportation) people would have chosen to save the few bucks per day per
kid; and live in closer, connected suburbs.

6. NO NO again. Don't subsidize cyclists - de-subsidize drivers. Give
every employee the cash it costs to provide his free parking, then charge
them only if they use it. The tax laws are changing towards this.

7. Rather than giving cyclists licenses, I would rather see a really good
safety education program, geared towards the local area, then give people
licenses which prove they have taken the course. A $10 fee or so would be
enough to pay the instructor. It would be worth far more just as insurance
in case you (our your surviving spouse) find yourself in court. That's also
the main reason I wear a helmet. I would rather hear my lawyer say "Mr.
Haston was a very experienced road cyclist. Aside from reading a whole book
on cycling safety, he attended the certified safety training for his
district, and always wore his helmet. Better this than the opposition's
lawyer saying "Mr. Haston was clearly reckless - he wasn't even wearing a
helmet".

Best Solutions? I think eliminating all subsidies for driving or using oil
is the first real solution. When the high gas taxes, tolls, and parking
costs drive millions of more people to bicycle, these problems will be
reduced. Look at European cities where anywhere from one out of ten to one
out of three trips are by bike.


"Paul R" wrote in message ...
What do you think is the best way to improve safety for cyclists in a
city?
Why?

1) Mandatory helmet laws for all cyclists with strict enforcement.

2) Enforce existing laws against drivers. Significant charges for those
who
kill or injure cyclists (guy got doored on University Ave (in Toronto),
was
thrown into traffic and killed. Driver got 3 points (out of 15) and $105
fine). Take away the driving priviliges for repeat dangerous driving
offenders. Personally, I believe that in ANY altercation between a cyclist
and motorized vehicle, the motorized vehicle should be held 100% at fault.
Likewise, in any altercation between a cyclist and pedestrian the cyclist
should be held 100% responsible. This is unfair, but I think the benefits
to
society outweigh the few cases where someone gets burned. Before people
start screaming, be aware that this is how the law is in Holland, a
cyclists
utopia.

3) Education for drivers on handling cyclists safely

4) Better traffic planning. Extensive changes to existing infrastructure.
Widen streets or remove extra lane.

5) Extensive system of bike paths

6) Provide significant tax breaks for cyclists who commute to work (like
drivers get tax breaks on the highways, parking lots etc.). These breaks
should reflect the improvements to society gained by having more cyclists
on
the road (improved safety for cyclists, improved air, reduced congestion,
reduced noise, reduced use of materials and energy, improved health of
cyclist (more important in Canada than US with public health system)
etc.).

7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely
in
traffic

I believe that no's 2, and 6 are the best. I think that helmet laws won't
change anything - it will still be open season on cyclists, as it is now.
The more cyclists on the streets, the safer we are.

That's what I think,

Paul

Robert Haston wrote:
6. NO NO again. Don't subsidize cyclists - de-subsidize drivers. Give
every employee the cash it costs to provide his free parking, then charge
them only if they use it. The tax laws are changing towards this.


The European model "subsidizes" cyclists by not making them pay motor fuel tax,
same as in USA. The difference is that the motor fuel taxes over there are
a notable fraction of the total cost of owning/operating a car. A 20mpg car
averaging a thousand miles a month in the USA might cost $25 a month in tax
on the fuel, as compared to $100 - $200 a month in Europe. Increasing the
USA fuel taxes would be the simplest way to de-subsidize driving.

Mitch.

"Paul R" wrote
7) Licensing for cyclists - they must prove they know how to ride safely in
traffic


Great points Paul. I think #7 is best in theory but how can it be put into practice?
Like car exams? I guess.

When I was about 11 years old, my school had a bike safety course for an hour
a week for six weeks, after school hours. My mother signed me up coz I was
spending a lot of time on streets riding my BMX ( the 1st time it was around -
circa 1982). I was downright embarrassed in front of my friends just for being
one of the 'geeks' that was taking part, ye know what kids are like.

Anyway, my point is that more than 20 years later I still remember little things
from that course ( safe turns/signals/observation etc) and I still signal automatically,
the exact way that we were thought.

Maybe it could be introduced at a young age?