Miami Parks hostile to kayakers

Felsenmeer wrote:
And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped
up and dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they
can't make the yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the
park?


Two words:

HOMELESS SHELTER

OK so we lock them away in 'shelters' from which they are not free to
leave. That's f***ing brilliant.


I have yet to see a homeless shelter in which the homeless are
"locked away" and are "not free to leave." Do these exist in your
country? They don't in mine.

You'll have to forgive me if I misunderstood your two words, I was filling
in some blanks for myself. I assumed that you meant for the homeless in
question to be removed to a homeless shelter, either forcibly or through
strong encouragement. If it's the case that the homeless are not kept
prisoner in their shelters (and it is, both in your country and mine),
then how do the two words 'HOMELESS SHELTER' solve the problem of homeless
that choose to inhabit a public piece of land?

The public in general *does* feel uncomfortable with homeless people,
warranted or not.

The general driving public *does* feel uncomfortable sharing the road with
cyclists.

A park may be a much nicer place than a shelter to
a homeless person, but a park is *not* a nicer place for the public
when it becomes a collecting point for the homeless.

The road may be the nicest place for a cyclist on the go, but it is *not*
the nicest place for SUVs when it becomes a collecting point for slow
moving poorly protected vehicles.

You obviously
have some sort of thing for the homeless, and that's good. But I
think if you're going to intellectually honest, you're going to have
to realize that the public at large in general does not approve of
having their parks turned into impromptu homeless shelters.

If the public is so concerned about some homeless people in a park, whom
to the best of my knowledge have never been known to do anything illegal
or threatening, then maybe there's a problem with the public? Maybe, and
bear with me here, we should treat the homeless like others, innocent
until proven guilty?

So... you've missed the point. People typically feel somewhat
threatened by the homeless, yet they have free rein of the place.
People do *not* typically feel threatened by sea kayakers, yet
they're prohibited. This makes no sense. It's not an issue of
"play."

You've missed *my* point. The OP was expressing his dissatisfaction with
being marginalized by society. He feels that he is being oppressed by the
LAW OF THE JUNGLE, by which the mightier creatures, those driving cars and
motorboats, backed by money and the law, are keeping him from pursuing his
innocent interests. He also has a holier-than-thou attitude towards those
making use of polluting forms of transportation/recreation. In the same
sentences he tries to marginalize the homeless in the exact same way, on
the same flimsy pretexts, using the same laws of the land, and completely
ignores the environmental impact of his owning a home (not insignificant).

I was not arguing that the homeless are more fun to have around than
kayakers, or safer, or anything like that. I was pointing out a glaring
double standard in the OP. This kind of hypocrisy upsets me, like the
person who will gladly steal from a big corporation (it's not like they
need the money, piracy is a victimless crime) but refuses to give to the
needy (why should they get handouts from MY pocket?). In the end, his
arguments boil down to a very selfish demand for respect, and respect is
not something he's willing to give in return.

"Jacobe Hazzard" wrote in message ...
DonQuijote1954 wrote:
I know it's political, EVERYTHING is political. Whether in my
bicycles--that go unused--or my kayaks--that now will go unused--I
feel at the bottom end of the food chain. Polluting SUVs and
motorboats have it all; bikers and kayakers, get the scraps--if any.
Whether we are intimidated or regulated, we face the beast. It's a
jungle out there...

And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped up and
dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they can't make the
yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the park?

Listen the yuppies get nervous, I get nervous and everybody gets
nervous. The problem is they are OUT OF PLACE in a park, and there
shouldn't be homeless to begin with. While there's homeless out there
I call it a JUNGLE.

Guns N' Roses - Welcome To The Jungle Song Lyrics

Welcome to the jungle
We got fun 'n' games
We got everything you want
Honey we know the names
We are the people that can find
Whatever you may need
If you got the money honey
We got your disease


Chorus:


In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shun n,n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,n,,n,n,,n knees,
knees
I wanna watch you bleed


Welcome to the jungle
We take it day by day
If you want it you're gonna bleed
But it's the price you pay
And you're a very sexy girl
That's very hard to please
You can taste the bright lights
But you won't get them for free
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Feel my, my, my serpentine
I, I wanna hear you scream


Welcome to the jungle
It gets worse here everyday
Ya learn ta live like an animal
In the jungle where we play
If you got a hunger for what you see
You'll take it eventually
You can have anything you want
But you better not take it from me


Chorus


And when you're high you never
Ever want to come down, so down, so down, so down YEAH!


You know where you are
You're in the jungle baby
You're gonna die
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shu n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n knees,
knees
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Feel my, my, my serpentine
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shun n,n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n.n, knees,
knees
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your
It's gonna bring you down!
Ha!

"Jacobe Hazzard" wrote in message ...
How can he demand respect for people who go without motor vehicles, for
whatever personal reasons they have, if he's completely unable to respect
people who go without homes for their own personal reasons? It's easy to
see how the most common complaints one might have about the homeless (IE
they're dirt poor, are probably crazy and are homeless because they can't
manage a real lifestyle, they're an inconvenience and a hazard to the rest
of us) could easily be applied to a cyclist by a motorist. And if we can
say nothing else for homelessness, we can be sure it has less
environmental impact than owning a home, even a home with no SUVs.


To begin with MY CAR WAS SWALLOWED BY THE JUNGLE (ie. got stolen), and
even though I already put money on another, it's Geo Tracker with no
racks possible. A trailer down the line is a possibility though...

But how dare you in your American mind compare being without car to
being without a roof. Sure, it's pretty much the only option left to
get around, but hey, that's the issue. People without an engine are
treated like s*** and then people like you come up with excuses for
the homeless. Yeah right...

How about a permanent solution for the homeless like having them pay
back to society in exchange for a decent salary--and a roof? Picking
up litter seems a good start to me (it's dirty enough out there)...

On 23 Nov 2004 16:21:28 -0800,
(DonQuijote1954) wrote:



Listen the yuppies get nervous, I get nervous and everybody gets
nervous. The problem is they are OUT OF PLACE in a park, and there
shouldn't be homeless to begin with. While there's homeless out there
I call it a JUNGLE.

Guns N' Roses - Welcome To The Jungle Song Lyrics

-snipped-
Welcome to the jungle
Feel my, my, my serpentine
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shun n,n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n.n, knees,
knees
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your
It's gonna bring you down!
Ha!

I think your kayak has upside down, for way too long. You are showing
signs of oxygen depravation.


Life is Good!
Jeff

"Felsenmeer" wrote in message ...
And what would you like done with the homeless? Have them scooped up
and dispatched to some burnt out industrial district so they can't
make the yuppies nervous when they go for strolls in the park?


Two words:

HOMELESS SHELTER

OK so we lock them away in 'shelters' from which they are not free to
leave. That's f***ing brilliant.


I have yet to see a homeless shelter in which the homeless are "locked away"
and are "not free to leave." Do these exist in your country? They don't in
mine.

My point was the OPs apparent hypocrisy in being outraged about kayaking
being banned as 'potentially dangerous' and in the same breath condemning
the homeless as 'potentially threatening'. The fact is, a park is a much
nicer place to be than a homeless shelter. Have you ever seen the inside
of one? My reading of his arguments (which really needn't have involved
the homeless at all, as they were irrelevant to his kayaking problem) was
a sort of juvenille, "If I can't play here then why should they?"


The public in general *does* feel uncomfortable with homeless people,
warranted or not. A park may be a much nicer place than a shelter to a
homeless person, but a park is *not* a nicer place for the public when it
becomes a collecting point for the homeless. You obviously have some sort
of thing for the homeless, and that's good. But I think if you're going to
intellectually honest, you're going to have to realize that the public at
large in general does not approve of having their parks turned into
impromptu homeless shelters.

So... you've missed the point. People typically feel somewhat threatened by
the homeless, yet they have free rein of the place. People do *not*
typically feel threatened by sea kayakers, yet they're prohibited. This
makes no sense. It's not an issue of "play."

It's easy to
see how the most common complaints one might have about the homeless (IE
they're dirt poor, are probably crazy and are homeless because they can't
manage a real lifestyle, they're an inconvenience and a hazard to the rest
of us) could easily be applied to a cyclist by a motorist.

Huh? That's silly hyperbole. Unless, of course, you truly believe that
bicyclists are dirt poor, crazy, and can't manage a real lifestyle.

And if we can
say nothing else for homelessness, we can be sure it has less
environmental impact than owning a home, even a home with no SUVs.

What does this have to do with the whole thing? Within the context of this
thread, where does the environmental impact of homelessness come into play?

Well, you said it all. What else can I say...

But let me add a couple of points:

1-The people making these regulations--privileged public
officers--don't ever go on a kayak. They go on motorboats which are
much higher up in the social ladder.

2-They don't go to the park, since they are probably associated to
some private club or are out there in their motorboat.

If they did, they would take care of the homeless problem. Of course,
these are not accepted in their clubs...

Ronsonic wrote in message . ..
The Little Ant, then, gathered the whole cooperative and said:
"Comrades, our world is being threatened by the dinosaurs, so..." And
at that precise moment the Earth was hit by a big ball of fire,
destroying all but the small animals...

A stroke of tremendous good fortune for such creatures that it would be foolish
to count on.

Rather than sit around hoping conditions change:

A - change them yourself.

B - change yourself to suit them.

I recommend "A" but your mileage may vary. Either is more productive than
waiting for a meteor to hit.

Ron

Multiple choice...

__ God will run out of patience and hurl the asteroid (Armageddon).

__ Become a dinosaur yourself.

__ Stop feeding the stupid hungry dinosaur (lend God a hand).

__ Gather all the ants and fight the beast (it may justify the dinosaur)...

"DonQuijote1954" wrote in message
om...

Give 'em another choice: light community work.

On top of their existing jobs?


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Jeff Starr wrote in message . ..
On 23 Nov 2004 16:21:28 -0800,
(DonQuijote1954) wrote:



Listen the yuppies get nervous, I get nervous and everybody gets
nervous. The problem is they are OUT OF PLACE in a park, and there
shouldn't be homeless to begin with. While there's homeless out there
I call it a JUNGLE.

Guns N' Roses - Welcome To The Jungle Song Lyrics

-snipped-
Welcome to the jungle
Feel my, my, my serpentine
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shun n,n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,,n.n, knees,
knees
In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your
It's gonna bring you down!
Ha!

I think your kayak has upside down, for way too long. You are showing
signs of oxygen depravation.


Life is Good!
Jeff

Sure, I was trying to GET AWAY from the jungle, but it's not simply
possible.

NOTE: I bought a heavy duty kayak cart and now I should be able to
walk 3 times as much as before to please the hungry lion. The
launching itself will be more dangerous too from a seawall, but hey,
what does he care but his own appetite...

"Claire Petersky" wrote in message ink.net...
"DonQuijote1954" wrote in message
om...

Give 'em another choice: light community work.

On top of their existing jobs?

Yep, I think the homeless have been philosophizing enough about life
now to go back and join the real world.

There's this place next to the Intercontinental Hotel. It's a wooden
pier with the most awesome view over the bay. Perfect for romantic
hideout...

Well, guess who's there. Yeah, THEY are also there, day and night, and
even have set up camp cardboards and all, NEXT to the lions in the
hotel! I've denounced the situation multiple times (so I can romantize
there) but nothing.
Sure since the rich and famous give a dam about REAL FREEDOM to enjoy
the simple things they give a damn. And that's how the jungle came to
be a jungle...

Jeff Starr wrote in message . ..
I think your kayak has upside down, for way too long. You are showing
signs of oxygen depravation.


Life is Good!
Jeff

Where's the "depravation" in Eskimo roll?

Oxygen deprivation surely comes from inhaling your motorboat fumes...