Basso Loto

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
"transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them link-by-link"?

I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential thieves
generally don't want that one. They go for another bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which gets stolen first?

-- Jay Beattie.

Do you own an MTB? Those chains take a terrible beating and I seldom got 1,000 miles on them if that much whenever there was anything even resembling a water crossing. And this was a good KMC chain. If you don't ride MTB's why the hell are you even talking about it?

Pfff. My road bike chains see more water in one fall/winter than most mountain bike chains see in years of river crossings. And no, I sold my last mountain bike and now have a CX bike and a gravel bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2019-11-05 18:38, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:05:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 08:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It
seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it
apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between the
ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond
Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to test it
again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder
coaters and expect them to get around to it around the
end of next week. I was not enthused about the original
colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red
highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent blue"
which they had a sample of when I was there. A hot rodder
was having his rims coated. I had been planning on Candy
Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked
a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and
the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the
Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they were
about to put in the oven while I was there. It would cook
to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a
set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with
clear. I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and
will use many very light coats instead of a few heavy.
And then have the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the
Campy headset that was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep
carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and
on it took me three days to get that thing properly
centered and true when I could build an aluminum wheel in
a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your
rides. I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road
bike have lots of scrapes and are generally caked in
copious amounts of dried mud. Add in a few grease streaks
and some vegetation mashed deep into the works here and
there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting but then
again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in
IPA, Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud?
OK...oh wait are you not the one who cleans his chain with
inter dental brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain
than other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other
cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out
of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them
link-by-link"?


I regularly talk with other MTB riders at brewpubs. Most said they
don't even get 1000mi out of a chain.

What kind of chain are they using? 8/9/10/11 speed? What are you
using? And what does flossing between the links do to clean out the
pin-bushing interface? You would probably do better with conventional
cleaning and lubrication.


Most are 10-speed, rarely 9-speed. KMC seems to be the main brand and
that is what I also use. Doesn't matter, the chains are similar.

It's not flossing but I am (re-) using these:

https://www.costco.com/gum-soft-pick...100526764.html

What it does is remove oily and grimy clumps and "plaque" from the area
where the rollers tough the links. Otherwise the new lube won't go in
there well. Yes, a chain wash is better but that requires liquids,
drying, and is environmentally questionalbe IMO because you have to dump
the resulting oily liquid somewhere. And don't do that in the sink or
the open space.



I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical
stuff, very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked
on it or not is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may
cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential
thieves generally don't want that one. They go for another
bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy
versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works
Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which
gets stolen first?


Of course I mean similar bikes. Di2 is an invitation "Steal me,
steal me!". Most thieves around here are after a quick buck to feed
their drug habits. A nice shiny name brand bike will instantly get
them their $30 or whatever at the cladestine chop shop, a filthy
one won't.

It's rather obvious and I had talked at length with law
enforcement experts about such things. They said the same thing
about homes. A modest abode has a lower chance of being broken into
versus a manicured mansion.

Law enforcement officers know about the relative number of muddy
versus non-muddy bikes that get stolen. Incroyable. I seems to me
like one would have to do A/B testing to prove that point.


They do know about the chance of ugly versus non-ugly items being
stolen. These were case investigors, not patrol officers. But even those
know if seasoned enough.

The key is what I had mentioned: How marketable is a stolen item and how
quickly can it be turned into drug money? The shiny bike gets them money
fast, the ugly one gets them nothing. So ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 4:49:16 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
"transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them link-by-link"?

I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential thieves
generally don't want that one. They go for another bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which gets stolen first?

-- Jay Beattie.

Do you own an MTB? Those chains take a terrible beating and I seldom got 1,000 miles on them if that much whenever there was anything even resembling a water crossing. And this was a good KMC chain. If you don't ride MTB's why the hell are you even talking about it?

Pfff. My road bike chains see more water in one fall/winter than most mountain bike chains see in years of river crossings. And no, I sold my last mountain bike and now have a CX bike and a gravel bike.

After selling my FS last year I sold my hardtail ATB yesterday. After getting a cross bike 6 years ago an ATB felt so sluggish that I hardly use them. A cross bike is so much more fun off road.

Lou

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 4:49:16 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3..0
and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
"transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them link-by-link"?

I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential thieves
generally don't want that one. They go for another bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which gets stolen first?

-- Jay Beattie.

Do you own an MTB? Those chains take a terrible beating and I seldom got 1,000 miles on them if that much whenever there was anything even resembling a water crossing. And this was a good KMC chain. If you don't ride MTB's why the hell are you even talking about it?

Pfff. My road bike chains see more water in one fall/winter than most mountain bike chains see in years of river crossings. And no, I sold my last mountain bike and now have a CX bike and a gravel bike.

After selling my FS last year I sold my hardtail ATB yesterday. After getting a cross bike 6 years ago an ATB felt so sluggish that I hardly use them. A cross bike is so much more fun off road.

Lou

That's what I discovered as well with one exception - you cannot have super-low gearing because unlike an MTB, the front end is a great deal lighter and low gears will lift the front end rather than allow you better climbing.

Cyclocross bikes are made to be carried up steep climbs or deep mud.

On 2019-11-06 11:35, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-8,
wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 4:49:16 AM UTC+1, jbeattie
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-8, jbeattie
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It
seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took
it apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between
the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the
Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to
test it again. In any case it will be my spare
rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder
coaters and expect them to get around to it around
the end of next week. I was not enthused about the
original colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a
red highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent
blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been
planning on Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot
rodder's transmission there finished in that color
and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and
the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in
the Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they
were about to put in the oven while I was there. It
would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get
a set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire
frame with clear. I learned from the last try on the
Pinarello and will use many very light coats instead
of a few heavy. And then have the bottom bracket
threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The
deep carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build.
Off and on it took me three days to get that thing
properly centered and true when I could build an
aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your
rides. I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road
bike have lots of scrapes and are generally caked in
copious amounts of dried mud. Add in a few grease
streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into the works
here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look
disgusting but then again this greatly reduces the
chance of them being stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested
in IPA, Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud?
OK...oh wait are you not the one who cleans his chain
with inter dental brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain
than other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other
cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get
out of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean
them link-by-link"?

I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical
stuff, very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud
caked on it or not is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah,
and it may cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential
thieves generally don't want that one. They go for another
bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests --
muddy versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked
S-Works Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and
see which gets stolen first?

-- Jay Beattie.

Do you own an MTB? Those chains take a terrible beating and I
seldom got 1,000 miles on them if that much whenever there was
anything even resembling a water crossing. And this was a good
KMC chain. If you don't ride MTB's why the hell are you even
talking about it?

Pfff. My road bike chains see more water in one fall/winter than
most mountain bike chains see in years of river crossings. And
no, I sold my last mountain bike and now have a CX bike and a
gravel bike.

After selling my FS last year I sold my hardtail ATB yesterday.
After getting a cross bike 6 years ago an ATB felt so sluggish that
I hardly use them. A cross bike is so much more fun off road.

Lou

That's what I discovered as well with one exception - you cannot have
super-low gearing because unlike an MTB, the front end is a great
deal lighter and low gears will lift the front end rather than allow
you better climbing.

Cyclocross bikes are made to be carried up steep climbs or deep mud.


This would not be much fun on a CX bike, one of my regular routes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cjAW_nrl4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1USLVraV4mU

For people with lower back issues it's even tougher. Once I forgot to
unlock my rear shock when coming off the road. Only for a mile until I
realized a back pain. I paid for that all day long.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2019-11-05 14:43, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:40:55 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
: On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
: My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
: have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
: it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
: and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
: have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.
:
: Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
: expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
: was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
: and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
: "transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
: hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
: Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
: finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
: cleaner.
:
: These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
: to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
: had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
: I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.
:
: After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
: Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
: learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
: light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
: bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
: re-installed.
:
: I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
: wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
: three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
: could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.
:
:
: Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
: the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
: scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
: Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
: the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
: but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
: stolen.
:
: The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
: Imperial Stout or something similar.
:
:
: So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
: are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
: That is really girlisch...
:
:
: No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
: mountain bikers on similar trails get.

:... effectively earning many cents per hour of cleaning time, I'll bet!

: I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: cosmetic difference.

:I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
:chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

:The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.

You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
Checking the oil does.

And Caterpillar publishes estimated maintenance and repair costs for
several types of working conditions and working in swampy, muddy,
conditions has higher costs than working in a clean dry environment.

So yes, no one washes and waxes their Cat D-9 but they do plan on
higher maintenance costs when working in adverse conditions.


However, the cost has got nothing to do with whether the rest of the
machine is washed or not. I regulary come by a quarry. Their huge trucks
and bulldozers are well maintained but it looks like the panels and
non-mechanical body parts are not washed. At least not often. IOW, dirty
machines with clean hydraulic cylinders.

Washing a whole machine would be purely cosmetic and otherwise not
useful, just as washing an MTB frame is. On the contrary, washing
increases the chances of water being pressured into areas where it
shouldn't be.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 8:35:09 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 11:27:37 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 4:49:16 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 06:57:44 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-05 18:38, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:05:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 08:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It
seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it
apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between the
ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond
Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to test it
again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder
coaters and expect them to get around to it around the
end of next week. I was not enthused about the original
colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red
highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent blue"
which they had a sample of when I was there. A hot rodder
was having his rims coated. I had been planning on Candy
Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked
a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and
the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the
Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they were
about to put in the oven while I was there. It would cook
to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a
set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with
clear. I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and
will use many very light coats instead of a few heavy.
And then have the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the
Campy headset that was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep
carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and
on it took me three days to get that thing properly
centered and true when I could build an aluminum wheel in
a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your
rides. I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road
bike have lots of scrapes and are generally caked in
copious amounts of dried mud. Add in a few grease streaks
and some vegetation mashed deep into the works here and
there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting but then
again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in
IPA, Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud?
OK...oh wait are you not the one who cleans his chain with
inter dental brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain
than other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other
cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out
of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them
link-by-link"?


I regularly talk with other MTB riders at brewpubs. Most said they
don't even get 1000mi out of a chain.

What kind of chain are they using? 8/9/10/11 speed? What are you
using? And what does flossing between the links do to clean out the
pin-bushing interface? You would probably do better with conventional
cleaning and lubrication.


Most are 10-speed, rarely 9-speed. KMC seems to be the main brand and
that is what I also use. Doesn't matter, the chains are similar.

It's not flossing but I am (re-) using these:

https://www.costco.com/gum-soft-pick...100526764.html

What it does is remove oily and grimy clumps and "plaque" from the area
where the rollers tough the links. Otherwise the new lube won't go in
there well. Yes, a chain wash is better but that requires liquids,
drying, and is environmentally questionalbe IMO because you have to dump
the resulting oily liquid somewhere. And don't do that in the sink or
the open space.



I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical
stuff, very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked
on it or not is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may
cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential
thieves generally don't want that one. They go for another
bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy
versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works
Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which
gets stolen first?


Of course I mean similar bikes. Di2 is an invitation "Steal me,
steal me!". Most thieves around here are after a quick buck to feed
their drug habits. A nice shiny name brand bike will instantly get
them their $30 or whatever at the cladestine chop shop, a filthy
one won't.

It's rather obvious and I had talked at length with law
enforcement experts about such things. They said the same thing
about homes. A modest abode has a lower chance of being broken into
versus a manicured mansion.

Law enforcement officers know about the relative number of muddy
versus non-muddy bikes that get stolen. Incroyable. I seems to me
like one would have to do A/B testing to prove that point.


They do know about the chance of ugly versus non-ugly items being
stolen. These were case investigors, not patrol officers. But even those
know if seasoned enough.

The key is what I had mentioned: How marketable is a stolen item and how
quickly can it be turned into drug money? The shiny bike gets them money
fast, the ugly one gets them nothing. So ...

Aren't you the guy with the wood burning heat? Just toss the oily
liquid on the wood pile. After all wood smoke contains In addition to
particle pollution, several toxic harmful air pollutants including:
benzene,
formaldehyde,
acrolein, and
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).

With all that what's a little extra?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2019-11-06 15:17, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 06:57:44 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-05 18:38, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:05:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 08:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It
seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it
apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between the
ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond
Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to test it
again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder
coaters and expect them to get around to it around the
end of next week. I was not enthused about the original
colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red
highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent blue"
which they had a sample of when I was there. A hot rodder
was having his rims coated. I had been planning on Candy
Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked
a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and
the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the
Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they were
about to put in the oven while I was there. It would cook
to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a
set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with
clear. I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and
will use many very light coats instead of a few heavy.
And then have the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the
Campy headset that was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep
carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and
on it took me three days to get that thing properly
centered and true when I could build an aluminum wheel in
a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your
rides. I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road
bike have lots of scrapes and are generally caked in
copious amounts of dried mud. Add in a few grease streaks
and some vegetation mashed deep into the works here and
there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting but then
again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in
IPA, Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud?
OK...oh wait are you not the one who cleans his chain with
inter dental brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain
than other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other
cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out
of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them
link-by-link"?


I regularly talk with other MTB riders at brewpubs. Most said they
don't even get 1000mi out of a chain.

What kind of chain are they using? 8/9/10/11 speed? What are you
using? And what does flossing between the links do to clean out the
pin-bushing interface? You would probably do better with conventional
cleaning and lubrication.


Most are 10-speed, rarely 9-speed. KMC seems to be the main brand and
that is what I also use. Doesn't matter, the chains are similar.

It's not flossing but I am (re-) using these:

https://www.costco.com/gum-soft-pick...100526764.html

What it does is remove oily and grimy clumps and "plaque" from the area
where the rollers tough the links. Otherwise the new lube won't go in
there well. Yes, a chain wash is better but that requires liquids,
drying, and is environmentally questionalbe IMO because you have to dump
the resulting oily liquid somewhere. And don't do that in the sink or
the open space.



I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical
stuff, very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked
on it or not is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may
cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential
thieves generally don't want that one. They go for another
bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy
versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works
Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which
gets stolen first?


Of course I mean similar bikes. Di2 is an invitation "Steal me,
steal me!". Most thieves around here are after a quick buck to feed
their drug habits. A nice shiny name brand bike will instantly get
them their $30 or whatever at the cladestine chop shop, a filthy
one won't.

It's rather obvious and I had talked at length with law
enforcement experts about such things. They said the same thing
about homes. A modest abode has a lower chance of being broken into
versus a manicured mansion.

Law enforcement officers know about the relative number of muddy
versus non-muddy bikes that get stolen. Incroyable. I seems to me
like one would have to do A/B testing to prove that point.


They do know about the chance of ugly versus non-ugly items being
stolen. These were case investigors, not patrol officers. But even those
know if seasoned enough.

The key is what I had mentioned: How marketable is a stolen item and how
quickly can it be turned into drug money? The shiny bike gets them money
fast, the ugly one gets them nothing. So ...

Aren't you the guy with the wood burning heat? Just toss the oily
liquid on the wood pile. After all wood smoke contains In addition to
particle pollution, several toxic harmful air pollutants including:
benzene,
formaldehyde,
acrolein, and
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).

With all that what's a little extra?


We have one of those super-clean certified stoves that emits only a gram
of particulate matter per hour and no smoke. In fact, once when I was
cleaning the pellet stove vent I burned my arm while placing tools on
the chimney. I had forgotten that the wood stove was still going on the
other flue. The was absolutely no smell and I was standing right next to
the storm cap.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 16:46:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-06 15:17, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 06:57:44 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-11-05 18:38, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:05:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 08:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It
seemed to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it
apart to refinish it I got the Lemond and between the
ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond
Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will have to test it
again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder
coaters and expect them to get around to it around the
end of next week. I was not enthused about the original
colors of the Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red
highlight. So I'm having it a solid "transparent blue"
which they had a sample of when I was there. A hot rodder
was having his rims coated. I had been planning on Candy
Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked
a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and
the like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the
Trump economy. They had a pickup truck there they were
about to put in the oven while I was there. It would cook
to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a
set of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with
clear. I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and
will use many very light coats instead of a few heavy.
And then have the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the
Campy headset that was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep
carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and
on it took me three days to get that thing properly
centered and true when I could build an aluminum wheel in
a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your
rides. I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road
bike have lots of scrapes and are generally caked in
copious amounts of dried mud. Add in a few grease streaks
and some vegetation mashed deep into the works here and
there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting but then
again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in
IPA, Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud?
OK...oh wait are you not the one who cleans his chain with
inter dental brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain
than other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other
cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out
of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them
link-by-link"?


I regularly talk with other MTB riders at brewpubs. Most said they
don't even get 1000mi out of a chain.

What kind of chain are they using? 8/9/10/11 speed? What are you
using? And what does flossing between the links do to clean out the
pin-bushing interface? You would probably do better with conventional
cleaning and lubrication.


Most are 10-speed, rarely 9-speed. KMC seems to be the main brand and
that is what I also use. Doesn't matter, the chains are similar.

It's not flossing but I am (re-) using these:

https://www.costco.com/gum-soft-pick...100526764.html

What it does is remove oily and grimy clumps and "plaque" from the area
where the rollers tough the links. Otherwise the new lube won't go in
there well. Yes, a chain wash is better but that requires liquids,
drying, and is environmentally questionalbe IMO because you have to dump
the resulting oily liquid somewhere. And don't do that in the sink or
the open space.



I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical
stuff, very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked
on it or not is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may
cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential
thieves generally don't want that one. They go for another
bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy
versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works
Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which
gets stolen first?


Of course I mean similar bikes. Di2 is an invitation "Steal me,
steal me!". Most thieves around here are after a quick buck to feed
their drug habits. A nice shiny name brand bike will instantly get
them their $30 or whatever at the cladestine chop shop, a filthy
one won't.

It's rather obvious and I had talked at length with law
enforcement experts about such things. They said the same thing
about homes. A modest abode has a lower chance of being broken into
versus a manicured mansion.

Law enforcement officers know about the relative number of muddy
versus non-muddy bikes that get stolen. Incroyable. I seems to me
like one would have to do A/B testing to prove that point.


They do know about the chance of ugly versus non-ugly items being
stolen. These were case investigors, not patrol officers. But even those
know if seasoned enough.

The key is what I had mentioned: How marketable is a stolen item and how
quickly can it be turned into drug money? The shiny bike gets them money
fast, the ugly one gets them nothing. So ...

Aren't you the guy with the wood burning heat? Just toss the oily
liquid on the wood pile. After all wood smoke contains In addition to
particle pollution, several toxic harmful air pollutants including:
benzene,
formaldehyde,
acrolein, and
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).

With all that what's a little extra?


We have one of those super-clean certified stoves that emits only a gram
of particulate matter per hour and no smoke. In fact, once when I was
cleaning the pellet stove vent I burned my arm while placing tools on
the chimney. I had forgotten that the wood stove was still going on the
other flue. The was absolutely no smell and I was standing right next to
the storm cap.

Well, there you go. Just dump the used cleaning fluid in the stove and
it will be magically destroyed with no harm to the atmosphere.
--
cheers,

John B.