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  #31  
Old September 7th 17, 03:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,587
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 15:07:43 -0400, Duane
wrote:

Or just buy a decent pump and forget about it.


I Googled for "decent pump" and didn't find anything that meets all my
requirements. Also, I won't forget this. I smell a profit here.

Perhaps I should also weaponize my bicycle pump?
"High pressure, multiple-stage air pump with valve body inlet port
arrangement"
https://www.google.com/patents/US8047818
"One application where high pressure air is required
is with high performance air rifles. Such rifles rival
performance of light caliber firearms, and may yield
muzzle velocities approaching 1200 fps. In order to
achieve such velocities, an air reserve tank is coupled
to the rifle that provides air pressure in the 2000 psi
to 3600 psi range."
If some vehicle gets within 3ft of me, I just pull out my weaponized
universal bicycle pump, and blow a hole in their 20 gauge sheet metal
armor. That would seem far more effective and satisfying than kicking
their door as they pass. Yeah, I want one.

Ummm.... what caliber would you consider to be "decent"?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #32  
Old September 7th 17, 03:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,338
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 3:08:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 12:07:47 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:

Or just buy a decent pump and forget about it.


As Jeff asked - what is a "decent pump"? A pump that works good on a high pressure racing bike takes forever to inflate an MTB tire. With almost all of the pumps these days using that awful filler valve https://tinyurl.com/y84dcpqn simply isn't right for other applications.


I thot we already established that when you put down the $$ for a floor pump that has a good reputation, and is not toward the lower end of the range, still you get a gauge that is 7psi off. IOW there are no decent pumps on the market; they all cheese out on the gauge.

  #33  
Old September 7th 17, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,587
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 15:08:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 12:07:47 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:

Or just buy a decent pump and forget about it.


As Jeff asked - what is a "decent pump"? A pump that works good
on a high pressure racing bike takes forever to inflate an MTB
tire. With almost all of the pumps these days using that awful
filler valve
https://tinyurl.com/y84dcpqn simply isn't right
for other applications.


The air chuck (head) certainly could use a few lessons from the
automobile mechanics, which use a proper locking air chuck something
like these:
https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/2HKY3_AS01
https://veesun.com/images/air_chuck/731423.jpg
They grip well, don't fall off, don't blow off at 150 psi, and usually
survive getting trampled. However, they're for Schrader valves only
and are not made for Presta. The closest equivalent is this device:
https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Hiro+Side+Lever+Lockin g+Disc+Chuck&vendorCode=SILCA&major=12&minor=4
Yes, it's USD$100.00 for a locking Presta air chuck. You can find
something cheaper, but it's not locking:
http://www.lezyne.com/product-dpumps-acc-slipchk.php
About $10. I have two of them. They work for about 20-30 inflations
before the rubber O-ring wears out. Notice that it includes 6
replacement O-rings. More Presta tire chucks:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=locking+presta+tire+chuck
You can find other Presta heads, but they will probably be in the form
of a combination Schrader and Presta head, which is the problem. When
one combines the two valve types in a single head, the only mechanism
that works for both is the "hole in the rubber plug" type that grips
the threads on the outside of the valve stem.

One possible solution for Presta is to use a Schrader to Presta
adapter, but those are awkward and clumsy and tend to fall off if left
on the valve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncY1PEgSbI0

In my never humble opinion, the best solution is a pump head with only
one type of valve arrangement. The hose and head should be removable
from the pump using standard pneumatic fittings. If a floor pump, the
gauge should be near the handle, where I can see it, not on the floor,
where I need my distance eyeglasses to read the dial.
http://www.bermstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/20141116-turbocharger-pump-6281.jpg
Extra credit for selecting large numbers and high visibility colors
for the dial, instead of a black dial with a red pointer, which is
almost invisible in the dark:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/images.linnlive.com/9aee59d2c18ef6fce9ea759285f794e3/0f3a7dbd-0a6f-4bf9-9ff5-50c64bc3c06f.jpg
I'm sure there are more obvious improvements but these will suffice
for now.

As for tire pump displacement vs pressure, take a look at a better
than average hydraulic wood splitter. All these use two stage
hydraulic pumps. There first stage offers high volume, low pressure,
to rapidly move the splitting wedge from the open loading position, to
where it begins to hit the log. Once it hits the log, it switches to
low volume, high pressure, which is what's needed to bisect the log.
The same could be done with a bicycle pump design. The bicycle pump
would initially be in high volume, low pressure mode up to maybe 10-15
psi, where it would switch to low volume high pressure to reach
operating pressure.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #34  
Old September 7th 17, 04:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,587
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:23:07 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Sigh. Inflate the desired tire at what temperature, with how much
effort, how quickly, to what accuracy, how big a tire, etc?
(...)


You missed the "desired tire to the desired pressure" ;-?


No I didn't. The word "Inflate" assumes that pressure is checked
(unless you subscribe to my hard, firm, soft, mush, flat empirical
standard for tire inflation without numbers.

Here's one application for an air pump with which I'm currently
working:
https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-detector-Replaces-Tillotson-243-504/dp/B06Y542R9S
Yes, it's an air pump. It's used to apply pressure to the carburetor
fuel inlet on a 2 stroke engine (chain saw) to determine if the needle
valve is working properly and not leaking. Apply pressure and it
should open the needle valve at about 15 psi. Let it bleed down, and
it should close again at 5 psi. Pressurized to 10 psi and dunk the
carburetor into a bowl of water while looking for leaks (air bubbles).
A "good pump" should be able to do this as well.


Yup, we used to do that. Blow into the fuel line. While nobody's
cheeks were calibrated in psi it did tell you if the needle valve was
leaking. One did have to spit a bit to get the gasoline taste out of
your mouth though. :-)


Ummm... perhaps you shouldn't inhale with the hose in your mouth?

I built a fairly simple contrivance to avoid having to pay $40 for a
cheap Chinese clone of the real pressure tester. For a pressure pump,
I used a plastic baking syringe:
https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+baking+syringe&tbm=isch
The rubber seal was the first to fall apart followed by the crumbling
of the clear plastic. I used vinyl hose instead of Trygon fuel line,
which seems to be softening from ethynol exposure. Maybe I should
just give up and spend the $40.

(Note to self: Universal air pump design should have a Tygon hose
option).




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #35  
Old September 7th 17, 04:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,587
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 13:26:51 +0700, John B.
wrote:

As someone wrote, "Reality is anything you want it to be.


Yep. Reality is in the mind of the beholder. Which is the real me?
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/jeffl-wolf.gif

Just close your eyes and let your imagination run wild."


Not while I'm riding or typing.

Besides, the statement is backwards. I close my eyes BECAUSE my
imagination has gone wildly out of control.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #36  
Old September 7th 17, 05:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,648
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 19:06:34 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:


As someone wrote, "Reality is anything you want it to be. Just close
your eyes and let your imagination run wild."
--
Cheers,

John B.

LOL Pat Tillman!


:-) But even a casual reading of the "social networks" seems to prove
my point :-)


Actually I was reacting to what I wanted to react to not exactly what you said.
What trips me out is when people say you make your own reality. Certainly it is a lovely thought and a lovely thing to say to someone seeking inspiration, and certainly the Olympic gold medalist subscribes to the theory. But where does that leave the silver medalist? Who believed and believed and believed and busted and busted and busted their ass?
Derek Porter was my first rowing hero. He was in an 8 that got a gold in 92, and was world champ in 93, IIRC, and thot 96 was his year. Look at him try to hold back the tears on the podium in 96* and again in 00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wViOIIh7pUU
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dere... cw4dTFyxb5M:

*It is well worth watching the whole race, for other reasons.

Cheers


And I was thinking of the Facebook account that "went viral" recently
here about the newly constructed, not yet finished "high-rise" that
was going to fall over. See http://tinyurl.com/y83kdemv

I remember reading somewhere that:

"The potential collective intelligence of a human group is
exponentially proportional to group size, however in practice the
actual collective intelligence that is achieved by a group is
inversely proportional to group size. There is a huge delta between
potential collective intelligence and actual collective intelligence
in practice. In other words, when it comes to collective intelligence,
the whole has the potential to be smarter than the sum of its parts,
but in practice it is usually dumber."

to quote http://tinyurl.com/yd68nx2

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #37  
Old September 7th 17, 07:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,648
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 20:39:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:23:07 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Sigh. Inflate the desired tire at what temperature, with how much
effort, how quickly, to what accuracy, how big a tire, etc?
(...)


You missed the "desired tire to the desired pressure" ;-?


No I didn't. The word "Inflate" assumes that pressure is checked
(unless you subscribe to my hard, firm, soft, mush, flat empirical
standard for tire inflation without numbers.


Ever do much with inflatable mattresses, used by some campers? Or
those little inflatable raft thing that kids use in the back yard
pool? Or Inflatable boats. No pressure gauges for those.... and having
used an inflatable boat for a year or so I can assure you that when
you are putt-putting a mile out into the bay to get to your yacht you
do have a certain amount of interest in the boat being inflated to
"the desired pressure" :-)


Here's one application for an air pump with which I'm currently
working:
https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-detector-Replaces-Tillotson-243-504/dp/B06Y542R9S
Yes, it's an air pump. It's used to apply pressure to the carburetor
fuel inlet on a 2 stroke engine (chain saw) to determine if the needle
valve is working properly and not leaking. Apply pressure and it
should open the needle valve at about 15 psi. Let it bleed down, and
it should close again at 5 psi. Pressurized to 10 psi and dunk the
carburetor into a bowl of water while looking for leaks (air bubbles).
A "good pump" should be able to do this as well.


Yup, we used to do that. Blow into the fuel line. While nobody's
cheeks were calibrated in psi it did tell you if the needle valve was
leaking. One did have to spit a bit to get the gasoline taste out of
your mouth though. :-)


Ummm... perhaps you shouldn't inhale with the hose in your mouth?


Well, most people were bright enough not to do that, some without
being told, too.


I built a fairly simple contrivance to avoid having to pay $40 for a
cheap Chinese clone of the real pressure tester. For a pressure pump,
I used a plastic baking syringe:
https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+baking+syringe&tbm=isch
The rubber seal was the first to fall apart followed by the crumbling
of the clear plastic. I used vinyl hose instead of Trygon fuel line,
which seems to be softening from ethynol exposure. Maybe I should
just give up and spend the $40.

(Note to self: Universal air pump design should have a Tygon hose
option).

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #38  
Old September 7th 17, 08:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,587
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 13:22:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 20:39:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:23:07 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Sigh. Inflate the desired tire at what temperature, with how much
effort, how quickly, to what accuracy, how big a tire, etc?
(...)


You missed the "desired tire to the desired pressure" ;-?


No I didn't. The word "Inflate" assumes that pressure is checked
(unless you subscribe to my hard, firm, soft, mush, flat empirical
standard for tire inflation without numbers.


Ever do much with inflatable mattresses, used by some campers? Or
those little inflatable raft thing that kids use in the back yard
pool? Or Inflatable boats. No pressure gauges for those.... and having
used an inflatable boat for a year or so I can assure you that when
you are putt-putting a mile out into the bay to get to your yacht you
do have a certain amount of interest in the boat being inflated to
"the desired pressure" :-)


Sure. When one inflates a vessel with a large volume and semi-rigid
structure, there's quite a large difference in air volume between
maximum and minimum inflation. Plenty of room to experiment and
fairly easy to determine if it's hard, firm, soft, mush, or flat.
However, as the vessel volume becomes smaller and the structure become
more rigid, that allowable sloppiness becomes small. A small blast of
air from the inflator, could mean over-inflation. Blowing some air
out the Presta valve to clear out the dirt, might drop the tire to
well below operational pressure.

Incidentally, I've been working erratically on the design of several
inflatable portable antenna structures. Something like these but
smaller and lighter:
http://www.ltaprojects.com
Inflation pressure largely determines the load capacity of the
structure. Underinflation can cause buckling. Therefore, it's
important to set the pressure accurately. Much of the basic design
closely resembles an inflatable air mattress sitting on end.

Ummm... perhaps you shouldn't inhale with the hose in your mouth?


Well, most people were bright enough not to do that, some without
being told, too.


I just demonstrated that I'm not one of the bright ones. I've been
having problems seeing the computer screen. The characters all seem
to look blurry. Various reading glasses didn't help much. I just
wasted an hour poking around the monitor trying to determine the
cause. After essentially giving up, I decided that maybe I should
give the "Auto" button on the monitor a try. That fixed the problem
in a few seconds.

Moral: When looking for the obscure, be sure to also check the
obvious.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #39  
Old September 7th 17, 08:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,587
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:04:20 +0700, John B.
wrote:

"The potential collective intelligence of a human group is
exponentially proportional to group size, however in practice the
actual collective intelligence that is achieved by a group is
inversely proportional to group size. There is a huge delta between
potential collective intelligence and actual collective intelligence
in practice. In other words, when it comes to collective intelligence,
the whole has the potential to be smarter than the sum of its parts,
but in practice it is usually dumber."

to quote http://tinyurl.com/yd68nx2


Collective intelligence is also linear. If one person can do a
specific job in 1 hr, two people will take 2 hrs, three people will
take 3 hrs, four people will take 4 hrs, etc.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #40  
Old September 7th 17, 09:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,648
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:21:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 13:22:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 20:39:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:23:07 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Sigh. Inflate the desired tire at what temperature, with how much
effort, how quickly, to what accuracy, how big a tire, etc?
(...)

You missed the "desired tire to the desired pressure" ;-?

No I didn't. The word "Inflate" assumes that pressure is checked
(unless you subscribe to my hard, firm, soft, mush, flat empirical
standard for tire inflation without numbers.


Ever do much with inflatable mattresses, used by some campers? Or
those little inflatable raft thing that kids use in the back yard
pool? Or Inflatable boats. No pressure gauges for those.... and having
used an inflatable boat for a year or so I can assure you that when
you are putt-putting a mile out into the bay to get to your yacht you
do have a certain amount of interest in the boat being inflated to
"the desired pressure" :-)


Sure. When one inflates a vessel with a large volume and semi-rigid
structure, there's quite a large difference in air volume between
maximum and minimum inflation. Plenty of room to experiment and
fairly easy to determine if it's hard, firm, soft, mush, or flat.
However, as the vessel volume becomes smaller and the structure become
more rigid, that allowable sloppiness becomes small. A small blast of
air from the inflator, could mean over-inflation. Blowing some air
out the Presta valve to clear out the dirt, might drop the tire to
well below operational pressure.

Incidentally, I've been working erratically on the design of several
inflatable portable antenna structures. Something like these but
smaller and lighter:
http://www.ltaprojects.com
Inflation pressure largely determines the load capacity of the
structure. Underinflation can cause buckling. Therefore, it's
important to set the pressure accurately. Much of the basic design
closely resembles an inflatable air mattress sitting on end.


I would think that temperature would have a rather large effect on
this sort of thing but I suspect that an automatic air pressure system
wouldn't be difficult to arrange.



Ummm... perhaps you shouldn't inhale with the hose in your mouth?


Well, most people were bright enough not to do that, some without
being told, too.


I just demonstrated that I'm not one of the bright ones. I've been
having problems seeing the computer screen. The characters all seem
to look blurry. Various reading glasses didn't help much. I just
wasted an hour poking around the monitor trying to determine the
cause. After essentially giving up, I decided that maybe I should
give the "Auto" button on the monitor a try. That fixed the problem
in a few seconds.

Moral: When looking for the obscure, be sure to also check the
obvious.

--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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