Stripped #20 Torx: Extraction?

Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426

LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?
--
Pete Cresswell

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426

LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?

I'd drill it and use an extractor. I just did that on a crank arm pinch bolt that got stripped due to a bad 5mm hex socket. https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M...=0&w=300&h=300 That bolt has more meat on it than your hub bolt, but I've also done it on a cleat bolt for an SPD cleat, so it's certainly do-able by the hobbyist.

The worst thing that can happen is that you have to drill it out and use a bunch of tiny taps to clean the threads out. Have Andrew do it. He has extractors, tiny taps and a steady hand, except when he's detoxing. Make sure he does it on a Tuesday.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/14/2016 2:24 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426

LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?


I would make two flats or dimples on the outside of the head
(if it protrudes at all) with a 1/8" cylindrical rotary
file. If there's a gunsmith nearby that would be a good path
I think.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"jbeattie" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426

LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?

I'd drill it and use an extractor.

That's a skilled job - slightly off center can destroy the thread - and you
get 2 bites at the cherry; once when drilling a hole for the extractor, and
again when using the extractor. With small bolts, its damn near impossible.

If the bolt head stands proud with no obstruction, a hacksaw (or junior
hacksaw) can make an adequate screwdriver slot. Otherwise a narrow cold
chisel may be the last ditch method. That obviously carries the risk of
damaging the assembly - sometimes if you strip the head of a Torx bolt,
you're just screwed!

One last resort is drilling the head off - if its holding a decent thickness
of flange, there might be enough shank standing proud for vise-grips when
you get the assembly apart.

On 6/14/2016 2:16 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"jbeattie" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426


LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?

I'd drill it and use an extractor.

That's a skilled job - slightly off center can destroy the thread - and
you get 2 bites at the cherry; once when drilling a hole for the
extractor, and again when using the extractor. With small bolts, its
damn near impossible.

If the bolt head stands proud with no obstruction, a hacksaw (or junior
hacksaw) can make an adequate screwdriver slot. Otherwise a narrow cold
chisel may be the last ditch method. That obviously carries the risk of
damaging the assembly - sometimes if you strip the head of a Torx bolt,
you're just screwed!

One last resort is drilling the head off - if its holding a decent
thickness of flange, there might be enough shank standing proud for
vise-grips when you get the assembly apart.

OK, so I'm confused by your reply. Sure, if you drill down into the
bolt's shank, everything you say sounds correct. But can't you drill a
larger, shallow dimple into the torx head, and use a larger-size
extractor to bite into the head? (Oh, and try some penetrating oil
first, because that bolt must be pretty seized to destroy a torx
fitting, no?) Or maybe just take the extractor directly to the existing
torx hole?

OR (serious question, really) - does my suggestion not work? Nearly
tried this about two weeks ago with a tiny allen bolt, then I managed to
get it out with the proper key on my "last try" before going to
implements of destruction. Turns out it wasn't anywhere near as seized
as I thought, thankfully.

Mark J.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:15:22 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"jbeattie" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426

LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?

I'd drill it and use an extractor.

That's a skilled job - slightly off center can destroy the thread - and you
get 2 bites at the cherry; once when drilling a hole for the extractor, and
again when using the extractor. With small bolts, its damn near impossible.

If the bolt head stands proud with no obstruction, a hacksaw (or junior
hacksaw) can make an adequate screwdriver slot. Otherwise a narrow cold
chisel may be the last ditch method. That obviously carries the risk of
damaging the assembly - sometimes if you strip the head of a Torx bolt,
you're just screwed!

One last resort is drilling the head off - if its holding a decent thickness
of flange, there might be enough shank standing proud for vise-grips when
you get the assembly apart.

Drilling and extracting a M5 bolt isn't that hard, but it is fairly high consequence. Andrew probably has the best approach anyway -- grind some flats with a rotary file. With the countersinking, you're not going to get a hacksaw on it. Taking the head off might work though.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/14/2016 5:15 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/14/2016 2:16 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"jbeattie" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-7,
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one
of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426



LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith
willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it
seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal
filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on
to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?

I'd drill it and use an extractor.

That's a skilled job - slightly off center can destroy the
thread - and
you get 2 bites at the cherry; once when drilling a hole
for the
extractor, and again when using the extractor. With small
bolts, its
damn near impossible.

If the bolt head stands proud with no obstruction, a
hacksaw (or junior
hacksaw) can make an adequate screwdriver slot. Otherwise
a narrow cold
chisel may be the last ditch method. That obviously
carries the risk of
damaging the assembly - sometimes if you strip the head of
a Torx bolt,
you're just screwed!

One last resort is drilling the head off - if its holding
a decent
thickness of flange, there might be enough shank standing
proud for
vise-grips when you get the assembly apart.

OK, so I'm confused by your reply. Sure, if you drill down
into the bolt's shank, everything you say sounds correct.
But can't you drill a larger, shallow dimple into the torx
head, and use a larger-size extractor to bite into the
head? (Oh, and try some penetrating oil first, because that
bolt must be pretty seized to destroy a torx fitting, no?)
Or maybe just take the extractor directly to the existing
torx hole?

OR (serious question, really) - does my suggestion not
work? Nearly tried this about two weeks ago with a tiny
allen bolt, then I managed to get it out with the proper key
on my "last try" before going to implements of destruction.
Turns out it wasn't anywhere near as seized as I thought,
thankfully.

Mark J.

Yes, there are cases where tapping a slightly larger Torx or
allen key into the head can give enough purchase to move it.
The thread locker may resist that effort.

Slitting across the head with a hacksaw can work. The heat
of that will probably break your loctite so a flat
screwdriver could turn it out.

Making flats or dimples on the outer edges with a die
grinder and a rotary file works the same. There's localized
heat for your loctite and then the head may be grasped with
a mini vise (mole) grip and turned out. I like that better
than a flat screwdriver but either is a reasonable path.

A consultation with a gunsmith if there's one nearby is also
a good idea.

I'm less excited about center drilling a small hardened bolt
for a reverse remover (EZ Out) but the careful man might
try. Where the piece could mount nice and straight in a
drill press I'd be more in favor but a built wheel isn't
conducive to it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:40:34 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:15:22 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"jbeattie" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Rohloff hub.

Broke a disk-brake-side spoke and managed to tear up one of the #20 Torx
bolts to where nothing fits it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497...24104219885426

LocTite, of course..... -)

First thing that comes to mind is finding a gunsmith willing to tackle
the extraction.

OTOH, I have no way of judging such a person and it seems like the wrong
person could really mess this thing up.... as in metal filings in the
innards and/or a broken-off bolt with nothing to grab on to for further
extraction efforts.

Thoughts ?

I'd drill it and use an extractor.

That's a skilled job - slightly off center can destroy the thread - and you
get 2 bites at the cherry; once when drilling a hole for the extractor, and
again when using the extractor. With small bolts, its damn near impossible.

If the bolt head stands proud with no obstruction, a hacksaw (or junior
hacksaw) can make an adequate screwdriver slot. Otherwise a narrow cold
chisel may be the last ditch method. That obviously carries the risk of
damaging the assembly - sometimes if you strip the head of a Torx bolt,
you're just screwed!

One last resort is drilling the head off - if its holding a decent thickness
of flange, there might be enough shank standing proud for vise-grips when
you get the assembly apart.

Drilling and extracting a M5 bolt isn't that hard, but it is fairly high consequence. Andrew probably has the best approach anyway -- grind some flats with a rotary file. With the countersinking, you're not going to get a hacksaw on it. Taking the head off might work though.

-- Jay Beattie.

Looking at the arrangement of the holes, I take back what I said about the hacksaw. A short blade could get in there.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://www.google.com/#q=warren+kni...trument+repair

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:48:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
https://www.google.com/#q=warren+kni...trument+repair

https://www.google.com/maps/search/c.../data=!3m1!4b1