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Interbike 2017



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 25th 17, 03:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
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Posts: 431
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/22/2017 5:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:


[big snip]


Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where
there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's
more recreational.


It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today.


Damn - great minds really do think alike! Just took my wife for an
e-bike test ride Friday. She liked it.
I'm figuring she can motor-pace me some days.

I'm feeling the temptation, but holding the line on getting one for me -
for now.


It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights.


Yup, I've seen two or three on my commute (the slower ebikes, look like
hub motors mostly). Hard to hold that wheel.

Mark J.
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  #22  
Old September 25th 17, 07:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,025
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/24/2017 7:58 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/22/2017 5:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:


[big snip]


Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where
there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's
more recreational.


It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use
it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today.


Damn - great minds really do think alike!* Just took my wife for an
e-bike test ride Friday.* She liked it.
I'm figuring she can motor-pace me some days.

I'm feeling the temptation, but holding the line on getting one for me -
for now.


I am hoping that the mid-drive retrofit kit that is coming out next year
from a Korean company will be priced reasonably. It looks much better
than the Chinese Bafang retrofit kits that have become popular and that
cost $800-900 with battery. LUU Lighting has very good quality lighting
products so hopefully their retrofit kit will be the same. They said
that they are exhibiting it at CES in January, and that the Korean
government is paying for their CES booth because of this product. They
had a single sheet flier about it at Interbike.

The electric wheels all have drawbacks. Having a large battery spinning
inide a wheel, or even stationary inside a wheel just seems like the
wrong approach. At least the Copenhagen wheel has regenerative braking
so the batter size can be a little smaller, but most e-Bikes don't have
this.
  #23  
Old September 25th 17, 07:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
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Posts: 1,276
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/25/2017 1:07 PM, sms wrote:
...

The electric wheels all have drawbacks. Having a large battery spinning
inide a wheel, or even stationary inside a wheel just seems like the
wrong approach. At least the Copenhagen wheel has regenerative braking
so the batter size can be a little smaller, but most e-Bikes don't have
this.


Back when I was doing a cost comparison of gas vs electric e-bike
setups, the example I used for e-bikes was the BionX system, because
they were the only company that would actually publish real numbers for
range and battery recharge life-cycle estimates.

And at the time I think it was the only one that had regenerative
braking, and users on endless-sphere forums reported that using the
feature really didn't add much range unless you were literally riding
down a mountain. At best it would add maybe 5% under typical riding
conditions.

If all it takes to implement is a few more tiny electrical parts then
including it is no big weight penalty, but (as of maybe 5 years ago)
there didn't seem to be any great advantage to it in the case of e-bikes.
  #24  
Old September 26th 17, 08:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
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Posts: 18
Default Interbike 2017

@Steve,
You summed up Interbike pretty well.

American Outdoors was there, doing live interviews with companies and products they chose as best in show.
They chose Oculus as the best light, by far. If there's any justification for the cost of going despite the terrible floor traffic, an interview/infomercial like this would cost many times what the cost of my week at Interbike was.
Check out the interview they did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O68Sc72mKJ4

Many perennial big name brands weren't there. Others scaled way down.
Sales this year was a flop. Last year I sold eleven lights. This year only three. Floor traffic was way down. Last year, attendees took 200 flyers and show special sheets, that led to stores coming onboard and event sales and support deals. This year, only ~75 sheets.
Planet Bike wasn't there nor some CCBL companies that usually exhibit. Serfas wasn't around.

CygoLights had a full exhibit, and took on the misconception that they're just a CCBL company with signage about being designed and assembled in the USA. Owner is an American citizen of Japanese descent. He and I had a fruitful conversation about the state of the bike lighting industry in general and what it takes to launch a new product. Reps from Gaciron and other Chinese companies stopped by my booth who had their own exhibits in past years.. They didn't stay long after I said I'm made in USA, not interested in reselling lights made by anyone else. Even Cateye only had a wall of lights up at the JBi combined exhibit.
This year I exhibited solo, a few different people weren't available to help out, and so many other regulars weren't going this year either who would have manned the booth to free me up to have meetings and check out other exhibits.
If you haven't exhibited at a show like this, then I can see your feeling of wanting more more attention when approaching a booth.
It can be overwhelming to try to do a full day's work while exhibiting at a major show, so I apologize that I couldn't get to you quickly. I called out to you after excusing myself from the call I was on but you were already walking away. You caught me on the phone either with my mother wishing her happy holidays or the guy from La Jolla Cyclery, an Oculus reseller, who was supposed to come up for the day and I got credentials for, but called later on to say that the dog-sitter they had cancelled at the last minute so they couldn't make it.

If there's a waking giant in the bike light market, its for German STVZO compliant e-bike lights.
STVZO are the go-to lights for the big e-bike makers who want a single, global product, with a real vehicular type headlight beam. My STVZO beam is twice as bright, using the same or less power, in as small a footprint and package, costing the same or less to produce, as the typical STVZO Supernova brand that most bike light makers are using by default for lack of better product available.
Sales figures to e-bikes have exceeded industry projections each year since 2014, and keep increasing.
Getting my STVZO beam into production under license with one of the big three is a daunting task, where I already have traction but anyone whose launched a business knows the long way from first conceptual discussion to having a signed and profitable design and licensing agreement.

Interbike is in a Death Spiral

E-Bikes

Lights

Cleaning and Lubrication

Bamboo

Cameras

Power Meters

Smart Helmets

Folding Bikes

Locks

WIKE Salamander

Pure Cycles

Rod Brakes Are Back!

Tent

What I Won

What I bought


  #25  
Old September 26th 17, 09:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,472
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/26/2017 3:07 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:

If there's a waking giant in the bike light market, its for German STVZO compliant e-bike lights.
STVZO are the go-to lights for the big e-bike makers who want a single, global product, with a real vehicular type headlight beam. My STVZO beam is twice as bright, using the same or less power, in as small a footprint and package, costing the same or less to produce, as the typical STVZO Supernova brand that most bike light makers are using by default for lack of better product available.


I'm glad you're working on an StVZO headlight.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #26  
Old September 26th 17, 09:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,074
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/26/2017 2:07 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
@Steve,
You summed up Interbike pretty well.

-snip snip-

CygoLights had a full exhibit, and took on the misconception that
they're just a CCBL company with signage about being designed and
assembled in the USA.



What does CCBL mean?
https://www.acronymfinder.com/CCBL.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old September 26th 17, 10:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
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Posts: 18
Default Interbike 2017

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 1:26:07 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/26/2017 3:07 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:

If there's a waking giant in the bike light market, its for German STVZO compliant e-bike lights.
STVZO are the go-to lights for the big e-bike makers who want a single, global product, with a real vehicular type headlight beam. My STVZO beam is twice as bright, using the same or less power, in as small a footprint and package, costing the same or less to produce, as the typical STVZO Supernova brand 205 lm that most bike light makers are using by default for lack of better product available.


I'm glad you're working on an StVZO headlight.
--
- Frank Krygowski


This is my STVZO beam measurement with a lame old Cree XPG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXuE3JmBclM
Note that my lumens of 325, measured in a reasonably trustable lab, is also abnormally high for the max lux amount. The beam is much more even than other STZO lights put out, similar to a high performance car headlight spread. STVZO lights currently for sale look like a paint brush stroke across the bright spot, and not much more anywhere else.

Step up to a newer high bin LED and more power and this goes up to 600+ in manufacturable form, without exceeding 2 lux maximum at the horizontal.

Its ironic, and I think, bad business for other companies, to spend tens of thousands on an in-house design effort using conventional wisdom that won't make a light better than what's on the market already, when I have a STVZO beam ready to go to manufacture, that exceeds the performance and costs the same or less to manufacture than the competing lights already on the market.
  #28  
Old September 26th 17, 11:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,025
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/26/2017 2:46 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:

snip

Its ironic, and I think, bad business for other companies, to spend tens of thousands on an in-house design effort using conventional wisdom that won't make a light better than what's on the market already, when I have a STVZO beam ready to go to manufacture, that exceeds the performance and costs the same or less to manufacture than the competing lights already on the market.


Have you considered adding a dynamo mode to the existing light? Maybe
put the circuitry inside the light to be able to charge the internal
battery and/or operate the light at reduced power when powered only from
the dynamo.

  #29  
Old September 26th 17, 11:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,025
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/26/2017 1:54 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/26/2017 2:07 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
@Steve,
You summed up Interbike pretty well.

-snip snip-

CygoLights had a full exhibit, and took on the misconception that
they're just a CCBL company with signage about being designed and
assembled in the USA.



What does CCBL mean?


Cheap Chinese Bicycle Lights.
  #30  
Old September 27th 17, 01:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
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Posts: 18
Default Interbike 2017

Making a dynamo version of a light is a ki$$ of death. Minimal market for the huge investment needed compared to market return. e-bike circuits are a simple DC-DC converter. Dynamo output is erratic crap-wave shaped power needing special circuitry. IF you want to pay for design, tooling, and production costs, it would fit on the existing main circuit board.
My workaround is that I provide external DC input holes on the main circuit board, and the end-user can solder leads from any power adapter they wish that provides 3.0 to 4.2VDC.
Another option is to plug in a Generator to USB adapter. The common 5VDC 1A USB feed will drive the light at its middle setting nearly endlessly if you also have a battery installed.


On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
Photos with text at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing

Interbike is in a Death Spiral

E-Bikes

Lights

Cleaning and Lubrication

Bamboo

Cameras

Power Meters

Smart Helmets

Folding Bikes

Locks

WIKE Salamander

Pure Cycles

Rod Brakes Are Back!

Tent

What I Won

What I bought


 




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