Chain cleaners

Duane wrote:
Martin Borsje wrote:
sms has brought this to us :
On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a
rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same
lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.

If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're
correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication regime on that metric.

What other metric there could be?

Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for
easier on the road repairs.

I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?

About 8000 km out of a Campy 10 speed road use. About 2000 km out of a
Shimano 10 speed cyclocross use. It is the use that makes the difference.
Took a picture of a friends Atb, my cross bike looked the same

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1...o/IMAGE_41.jpg

You think a bother with chain cleaners?

--
Lou

Lou Holtman wrote:
Duane wrote:
Martin Borsje wrote:
sms has brought this to us :
On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a
rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same
lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.

If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're
correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication regime on that metric.

What other metric there could be?

Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for
easier on the road repairs.

I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?

About 8000 km out of a Campy 10 speed road use. About 2000 km out of a
Shimano 10 speed cyclocross use. It is the use that makes the difference.
Took a picture of a friends Atb, my cross bike looked the same

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1...o/IMAGE_41.jpg

You think a bother with chain cleaners?

I'm getting about 4000km out of a 10 speed Shimano. Road use but some
hills. Was getting 2500 before I started the wipe and lube after rides.
Going through cassettes every second chain. LBS guy thought 3500 and 3
chains per cassette was average so I'm a bit above that now. Friends that
I ride with with compact cranks get longer use from similar chains. I have
a 53/39 crankset. Was using a 12/27t cassette but now have an 11/28.

I clean the chain about once a month with a park tool and degreaser unless
it gets muddy.

Just switched to an Ultegra crank, cassette and chain so I'm curious to see
if this lasts less. Lol.

Coming from an 8 speed triple to a 10 speed double was a shock regarding
maintenance costs.

--
duane

On 12/1/2013 8:28 AM, Martin Borsje wrote:
sms has brought this to us :
On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a
rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same
lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome
regime.

If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're
correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication regime
on that metric.

What other metric there could be?

1. Cleanliness
2. Friction
3. Noise

But it is true that people obsess about chain cleaning and feel that
they need to remove their chain completely and soak it when in fact it's
easier and more effective to clean it on the bicycle.

Where many cyclists really tend to waste money on ineffective and/or
overpriced products is in chain lubrication. Tiny bottles of cleverly
named chain lubricant go for exorbitant prices. They may work okay, but
they are usually applied improperly so that the lubricant never actually
makes it inside to the pins and rollers of the chain.

It should not come as any surprise that the best chain lubricant for a
chain is actually a chain lubricant that's formulated to penetrate into
the chain to actually provide lubrication on the pins and rollers. But
you won't find these for sale at a bicycle shop, they're too effective
and too cheap. You may find them at a motorcycle shop. One can will last
for years.
http://technichemcorp.com/products/303-lube-foaming-chain-and-cable-lubricant.

On 12/1/2013 10:28 AM, Martin Borsje wrote:
sms has brought this to us :
On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it
through a
rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give
about the same
lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary
troublesome regime.

If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then
you're correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and
lubrication regime on that metric.

What other metric there could be?



A chinese blinky battery light probably.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:20:58 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:

Duane wrote:

Martin Borsje wrote:

sms has brought this to us :

On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:



Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a

rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same

lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.



If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're

correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication regime on that metric.



What other metric there could be?



Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for

easier on the road repairs.



I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?



About 8000 km out of a Campy 10 speed road use. About 2000 km out of a

Shimano 10 speed cyclocross use. It is the use that makes the difference.

Took a picture of a friends Atb, my cross bike looked the same



http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1...o/IMAGE_41.jpg



You think a bother with chain cleaners?

I'm getting about 4000km out of a 10 speed Shimano. Road use but some

hills. Was getting 2500 before I started the wipe and lube after rides.

Going through cassettes every second chain. LBS guy thought 3500 and 3

chains per cassette was average so I'm a bit above that now. Friends that I ride with with compact cranks get longer use from similar chains. I have a 53/39 crankset. Was using a 12/27t cassette but now have an 11/28.

I clean the chain about once a month with a park tool and degreaser unless it gets muddy.

Just switched to an Ultegra crank, cassette and chain so I'm curious to see if this lasts less. Lol.

Coming from an 8 speed triple to a 10 speed double was a shock regarding

maintenance costs.
--

duane

Which is why I never "upgraded" from my 9 speed. Where I really see a big difference is in the cost of 10+ compared tp 7 speed.

Cheers

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:20:58 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:

Duane wrote:

Martin Borsje wrote:

sms has brought this to us :

On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:



Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a

rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same

lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.



If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're

correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication regime on that metric.



What other metric there could be?



Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for

easier on the road repairs.



I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?



About 8000 km out of a Campy 10 speed road use. About 2000 km out of a

Shimano 10 speed cyclocross use. It is the use that makes the difference.

Took a picture of a friends Atb, my cross bike looked the same



http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1...o/IMAGE_41.jpg



You think a bother with chain cleaners?

I'm getting about 4000km out of a 10 speed Shimano. Road use but some

hills. Was getting 2500 before I started the wipe and lube after rides.

Going through cassettes every second chain. LBS guy thought 3500 and 3

chains per cassette was average so I'm a bit above that now. Friends
that I ride with with compact cranks get longer use from similar chains.
I have a 53/39 crankset. Was using a 12/27t cassette but now have an 11/28.

I clean the chain about once a month with a park tool and degreaser unless it gets muddy.

Just switched to an Ultegra crank, cassette and chain so I'm curious to
see if this lasts less. Lol.

Coming from an 8 speed triple to a 10 speed double was a shock regarding

maintenance costs.
--

duane

Which is why I never "upgraded" from my 9 speed. Where I really see a big
difference is in the cost of 10+ compared tp 7 speed.

Cheers

Well it wasn't an upgrade in that sense. It was a new bike. I still have
the other bike and keep telling myself that I'll use it again. Lol.
Probably give it to my son who is about my size these days. Maintenance
costs were lower but the new one is a lot more fun to ride.
--
duane

Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:20:58 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:

Duane wrote:

Martin Borsje wrote:

sms has brought this to us :

On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:



Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a

rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same

lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.



If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're

correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication
regime on that metric.



What other metric there could be?



Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for

easier on the road repairs.



I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?



About 8000 km out of a Campy 10 speed road use. About 2000 km out of a

Shimano 10 speed cyclocross use. It is the use that makes the difference.

Took a picture of a friends Atb, my cross bike looked the same



http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1...o/IMAGE_41.jpg



You think a bother with chain cleaners?

I'm getting about 4000km out of a 10 speed Shimano. Road use but some

hills. Was getting 2500 before I started the wipe and lube after rides.

Going through cassettes every second chain. LBS guy thought 3500 and 3

chains per cassette was average so I'm a bit above that now. Friends
that I ride with with compact cranks get longer use from similar chains.
I have a 53/39 crankset. Was using a 12/27t cassette but now have an 11/28.

I clean the chain about once a month with a park tool and degreaser unless it gets muddy.

Just switched to an Ultegra crank, cassette and chain so I'm curious to
see if this lasts less. Lol.

Coming from an 8 speed triple to a 10 speed double was a shock regarding

maintenance costs.
--

duane

Which is why I never "upgraded" from my 9 speed. Where I really see a big
difference is in the cost of 10+ compared tp 7 speed.

Cheers

Well it wasn't an upgrade in that sense. It was a new bike. I still have
the other bike and keep telling myself that I'll use it again. Lol.
Probably give it to my son who is about my size these days. Maintenance
costs were lower but the new one is a lot more fun to ride.

There are not only costs but also benefits. Considering one bike the cost
are one chain every year and one cassette every two three years in my case.
Peanuts.

--
Lou

Lou Holtman wrote:
Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:20:58 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Lou Holtman wrote:

Duane wrote:

Martin Borsje wrote:

sms has brought this to us :

On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:



Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a

rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same

lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.



If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're

correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication
regime on that metric.



What other metric there could be?



Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for

easier on the road repairs.



I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?



About 8000 km out of a Campy 10 speed road use. About 2000 km out of a

Shimano 10 speed cyclocross use. It is the use that makes the difference.

Took a picture of a friends Atb, my cross bike looked the same



http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y1...o/IMAGE_41.jpg



You think a bother with chain cleaners?

I'm getting about 4000km out of a 10 speed Shimano. Road use but some

hills. Was getting 2500 before I started the wipe and lube after rides.

Going through cassettes every second chain. LBS guy thought 3500 and 3

chains per cassette was average so I'm a bit above that now. Friends
that I ride with with compact cranks get longer use from similar chains.
I have a 53/39 crankset. Was using a 12/27t cassette but now have an 11/28.

I clean the chain about once a month with a park tool and degreaser
unless it gets muddy.

Just switched to an Ultegra crank, cassette and chain so I'm curious to
see if this lasts less. Lol.

Coming from an 8 speed triple to a 10 speed double was a shock regarding

maintenance costs.
--

duane

Which is why I never "upgraded" from my 9 speed. Where I really see a big
difference is in the cost of 10+ compared tp 7 speed.

Cheers

Well it wasn't an upgrade in that sense. It was a new bike. I still have
the other bike and keep telling myself that I'll use it again. Lol.
Probably give it to my son who is about my size these days. Maintenance
costs were lower but the new one is a lot more fun to ride.

There are not only costs but also benefits. Considering one bike the cost
are one chain every year and one cassette every two three years in my case.
Peanuts.

Well for me it's 2 chains a year. The other thing is the price of an 8
speed chain is like 12 bucks. 10 speed chains are a lot more.

I guess it's still peanuts compared to the price of the bike but if I can
stretch that distance without much effort I will. If I could get 8000km
out of a chain I'd be happy.

--
duane

On 12/1/2013 11:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/1/2013 10:28 AM, Martin Borsje wrote:
sms has brought this to us :
On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it
through a
rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give
about the same
lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary
troublesome regime.

If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then
you're correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and
lubrication regime on that metric.

What other metric there could be?



A chinese blinky battery light probably.

Weak.

On 02/12/13 04:02, Duane wrote:
Martin Borsje wrote:
sms has brought this to us :
On 12/1/2013 6:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Given the fact that a chain that is cleaned by running it through a
rough rag before lubrication after every wet ride give about the same
lifetime this is a questionable, messy and unnesessary troublesome regime.

If your metric is solely the useful life of the chain then you're
correct. Few riders base their chain cleaning and lubrication regime on that metric.

What other metric there could be?

Was wondering the same thing. I guess keeping the grunge off makes for
easier on the road repairs.

I wonder what the average life of 10/11 speed chains is among people here?


As usual, it depends ;-)

The size and strength of the rider, the grit, moisture levels, whether
you give it a hose and relube after a really mucky ride, or let the
grinding paste do its thing, etc., etc....

I've decided to run a little test. I'm alternating 2 chains on a
cassette on my road bike. The first has done 2000km from new, and was
lubed with my favorite oil.

I just swapped to a new chain that had been cooked it in hot candle wax
with added MoS2 grease.

I didn't wash the factory grease off the chain first, in fact I hope it
stayed inside the rollers and mixed with wax and MoS2.

I'll run the chain for 2000km, then swap a few more times and see which
one seems to be wearing quicker - if there is a noticeable difference.

--
JS