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Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 30th 17, 02:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 2:48:18 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of 9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs. On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night, works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+ miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180 hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap the whole
enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a function generator :-)

I think in that case the better alternative would be to buy a better
designed meter like the one I have on the MTB (Cateye Padrone) that does
allow odometer re-entry.

I only started this thread to see if someone knows a trick. There is a
discrepancy between the Bell manual and what Bell's customer service
says. The manual explicitly says you should write down the odometer
value before a battery change and then re-enter it after installing a
new battery. Their customer service said that it cannot be done. So one
of them is wrong.


I have yet to see a modern speedo in which you cannot re-enter the mileage after a battery change. But I HAVE seen manuals that are pitifully explanatory and service reps that haven't a clue what they're talking about.
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  #22  
Old July 30th 17, 02:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 6:20:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 14:48:23 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of 9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs. On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night, works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+ miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180 hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap the whole
enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a function generator :-)

I think in that case the better alternative would be to buy a better
designed meter like the one I have on the MTB (Cateye Padrone) that does
allow odometer re-entry.

I only started this thread to see if someone knows a trick. There is a
discrepancy between the Bell manual and what Bell's customer service
says. The manual explicitly says you should write down the odometer
value before a battery change and then re-enter it after installing a
new battery. Their customer service said that it cannot be done. So one
of them is wrong.


Early on in this thread you mentioned that you "kept a log". If so why
can't you simply add the previous mileage to the present (post battery
change) reading of your bike meter to get total mileage?

I have an annual log application that I wrote and that is what I do.
Simply enter the last year's total at the top of the new log and the
computer shows the current "lifetime total".


That wouldn't work with me because with the medication I would forget to do it.
  #23  
Old July 30th 17, 04:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 18:43:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 6:20:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 14:48:23 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16,
wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of 9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs. On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night, works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+ miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180 hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap the whole
enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a function generator :-)

I think in that case the better alternative would be to buy a better
designed meter like the one I have on the MTB (Cateye Padrone) that does
allow odometer re-entry.

I only started this thread to see if someone knows a trick. There is a
discrepancy between the Bell manual and what Bell's customer service
says. The manual explicitly says you should write down the odometer
value before a battery change and then re-enter it after installing a
new battery. Their customer service said that it cannot be done. So one
of them is wrong.


Early on in this thread you mentioned that you "kept a log". If so why
can't you simply add the previous mileage to the present (post battery
change) reading of your bike meter to get total mileage?

I have an annual log application that I wrote and that is what I do.
Simply enter the last year's total at the top of the new log and the
computer shows the current "lifetime total".


That wouldn't work with me because with the medication I would forget to do it.


Well, it is probably possible to write a sort of preamble to the
application that says something like "If A1 is empty then blow a
whistle and flash a light" :-)

Most of my web browsers are for ever popping up a sign that says "do
you want to make this the default web browser".
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #24  
Old July 30th 17, 06:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

Op zondag 30 juli 2017 03:01:10 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2017 11:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 09:16, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2017 10:19 AM, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard
100 cycling
speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In the
manual it
says one can re-enter the odometer reading but nowhere
it says how.
When I contacted Bell years ago they said "no, you
can't". Does
anyone know a secret trick Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to
see when the
rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a
*KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies. Many tires
don't have
TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not
just design a
circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch
which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read by the
head unit
electronics. Then set the tyre size to maximum and
determine the
maximum response frequency of the head unit circuitry
and simulate
pulses at that frequency. If the frequency is
reasonably high it
should not take too long to reset the mileage. With a tyre
circumference of 9999mm, if it will take that, then you
are looking
at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than
commercial one.
[snip]

No you miss my point. I am not suggesting you
design/build a new unit
simply knock up a simple circuit to mimic the magnet
driven switch
opening and closing and connect it to the appropriate
terminals on the
head unit. If the unit can respond to switching rates up
to say 1kHz
then the job should be reasonably quick and could be left
to run for a
known period of time to get the mileage back to where you
want it. At
10m per switch cycle you would advance the reading
36kms/hr at 1hz so
100Hz which should be possible would give you 3600kms/hr
1KHz would
look to be ideal as it would give you 36,000kms/hr.

A bench grinder would also work with a magnet fixed to it
and the
sensor held next to it. That might take a good bit longer
depending on
the speed of the grinder.


Ah, yes, clocking it all back in by pretending a 4120mi
ride. Good idea. I could take an old printer motor, mout a
wooden disc, glue a little magent on that and strap the
whole thing into the spokes.

It would probably take days though since the speedometer
will peg somewhere. And eat a lot of the new battery's juice
which would kind of defeat the purpose.


There are sensors which can read 1720~1760rpm (grinder
speeds) but a
copper-steel reed switch is not one of them.


Reed switches would be way too expensive for such products.
It's usually just a coil. Almost has to be because it must
generate a voltage that triggers the turned-off meter
circuitry to turn on upon wheel rotation.


Except for rare exceptions (ex: defunct Avocet), almost all
bicycle computers use that type of switch to iterate wheel
or crank rpm.


I could sell him my old Avocet, and he could kludge it.

It seems to me like he could get a sharpie and write on the screen "+ [number of miles]." Problem solved. Or maybe put the number in his wallet on the back of a growler fill coupon -- or tattoo it to his forehead. Or, plan B, just look at his tires to see if they are worn -- or measure his chain. I suppose this would impede the completion of his definitive work on tire and chain wear rates by brand and model, but only for one wear cycle. A new chain or tire would have a new odometer reading. I don't think tires wear any faster if a bike has more or less cumulative miles, but I could be wrong about that. I had some high mile bikes that would just blow through tires..

-- Jay Beattie.


Simple cycling computers are so cheap he could buy a new one every time he replaces a tire or a chain......

Lou
  #25  
Old July 30th 17, 08:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 22:37:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Op zondag 30 juli 2017 03:01:10 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 10:44:08 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2017 11:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 09:16, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2017 10:19 AM, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard
100 cycling
speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In the
manual it
says one can re-enter the odometer reading but nowhere
it says how.
When I contacted Bell years ago they said "no, you
can't". Does
anyone know a secret trick Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to
see when the
rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a
*KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies. Many tires
don't have
TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not
just design a
circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch
which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read by the
head unit
electronics. Then set the tyre size to maximum and
determine the
maximum response frequency of the head unit circuitry
and simulate
pulses at that frequency. If the frequency is
reasonably high it
should not take too long to reset the mileage. With a tyre
circumference of 9999mm, if it will take that, then you
are looking
at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than
commercial one.
[snip]

No you miss my point. I am not suggesting you
design/build a new unit
simply knock up a simple circuit to mimic the magnet
driven switch
opening and closing and connect it to the appropriate
terminals on the
head unit. If the unit can respond to switching rates up
to say 1kHz
then the job should be reasonably quick and could be left
to run for a
known period of time to get the mileage back to where you
want it. At
10m per switch cycle you would advance the reading
36kms/hr at 1hz so
100Hz which should be possible would give you 3600kms/hr
1KHz would
look to be ideal as it would give you 36,000kms/hr.

A bench grinder would also work with a magnet fixed to it
and the
sensor held next to it. That might take a good bit longer
depending on
the speed of the grinder.


Ah, yes, clocking it all back in by pretending a 4120mi
ride. Good idea. I could take an old printer motor, mout a
wooden disc, glue a little magent on that and strap the
whole thing into the spokes.

It would probably take days though since the speedometer
will peg somewhere. And eat a lot of the new battery's juice
which would kind of defeat the purpose.


There are sensors which can read 1720~1760rpm (grinder
speeds) but a
copper-steel reed switch is not one of them.


Reed switches would be way too expensive for such products.
It's usually just a coil. Almost has to be because it must
generate a voltage that triggers the turned-off meter
circuitry to turn on upon wheel rotation.


Except for rare exceptions (ex: defunct Avocet), almost all
bicycle computers use that type of switch to iterate wheel
or crank rpm.


I could sell him my old Avocet, and he could kludge it.

It seems to me like he could get a sharpie and write on the screen "+ [number of miles]." Problem solved. Or maybe put the number in his wallet on the back of a growler fill coupon -- or tattoo it to his forehead. Or, plan B, just look at his tires to see if they are worn -- or measure his chain. I suppose this would impede the completion of his definitive work on tire and chain wear rates by brand and model, but only for one wear cycle. A new chain or tire would have a new odometer reading. I don't think tires wear any faster if a bike has more or less cumulative miles, but I could be wrong about that. I had some high mile bikes that would just blow through tires.

-- Jay Beattie.


Simple cycling computers are so cheap he could buy a new one every time he replaces a tire or a chain......

Lou


But they last so long :-) I've got an old cable Cat Eye meter that
must be ten years old and still working. And! I can't even remember
the last time I changed the battery. They never seem to die.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #26  
Old July 30th 17, 10:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 206
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?


"Joerg" wrote in message ...
On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of 9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs. On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night, works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+ miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180 hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap the whole
enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a function generator :-)

[snip]

Why so dramatic do you just like cludging things with duct tape. Your head unit has two contacts on the back and my guess is that if you apply a rapid series of shorts across those two contacts the unit will display speed. How you might choose to apply those shorts is up to you: electronically, mechanically eg make a simple rotary switch driven by an electric drill or even a DPDT relay wired to self oscillate. The possibilities are almost endless, relatively simple and do not involve cable hacks and duct tape cludges

Graham.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #27  
Old July 30th 17, 03:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On 7/29/2017 4:48 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle
computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret
trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing
end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the
boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet
which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed
current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency
of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that
frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take
too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of
9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than
commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as
it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride
instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs.
On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there
it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have
since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night,
works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter
until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain
Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery
because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not
the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that
artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+
miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most
likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the
grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that
does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it
electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency
pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the
action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely
this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required
circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier
posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you
set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180
hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head
unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy
response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap
the whole enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a
function generator :-)

I think in that case the better alternative would be to buy
a better designed meter like the one I have on the MTB
(Cateye Padrone) that does allow odometer re-entry.

I only started this thread to see if someone knows a trick.
There is a discrepancy between the Bell manual and what
Bell's customer service says. The manual explicitly says you
should write down the odometer value before a battery change
and then re-enter it after installing a new battery. Their
customer service said that it cannot be done. So one of them
is wrong.


Or more probably the actual manufacturer may be totally
random based on being Bell's low bidder from time to time.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #28  
Old July 30th 17, 04:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 6:20:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 14:48:23 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of 9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs. On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night, works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+ miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180 hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap the whole
enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a function generator :-)

I think in that case the better alternative would be to buy a better
designed meter like the one I have on the MTB (Cateye Padrone) that does
allow odometer re-entry.

I only started this thread to see if someone knows a trick. There is a
discrepancy between the Bell manual and what Bell's customer service
says. The manual explicitly says you should write down the odometer
value before a battery change and then re-enter it after installing a
new battery. Their customer service said that it cannot be done. So one
of them is wrong.


Early on in this thread you mentioned that you "kept a log". If so why
can't you simply add the previous mileage to the present (post battery
change) reading of your bike meter to get total mileage?

I have an annual log application that I wrote and that is what I do.
Simply enter the last year's total at the top of the new log and the
computer shows the current "lifetime total".


That wouldn't work with me because with the medication I would forget to do it.


That's one of the advantages of using Garmin (or similar) with Strava (or
similar) in that it just happens no or little interaction needed, and then
it logs for you mileage of various bike parts.

It's a handy little tool really, I mostly use it since I like the mapping.

Roger Merriman

  #29  
Old July 30th 17, 05:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On 2017-07-29 18:38, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 12:31:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 12:18,
wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 9:34:42 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 09:16, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2017 10:19 AM, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard
100 cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle
computer" In the manual it says one can re-enter the
odometer reading but nowhere it says how. When I
contacted Bell years ago they said "no, you can't".
Does anyone know a secret trick Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to
see when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing
end-of-life. Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way
out in the boonies. Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not
just design a circuit to replicate the job of the
magnet which is only a switch which is creating a
pulsed current/voltage read by the head unit
electronics. Then set the tyre size to maximum and
determine the maximum response frequency of the head
unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency.
If the frequency is reasonably high it should not take
too long to reset the mileage. With a tyre
circumference of 9999mm, if it will take that, then you
are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than
commercial one.
[snip]

No you miss my point. I am not suggesting you design/build
a new unit simply knock up a simple circuit to mimic the
magnet driven switch opening and closing and connect it to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit. If the unit can
respond to switching rates up to say 1kHz then the job
should be reasonably quick and could be left to run for a
known period of time to get the mileage back to where you
want it. At 10m per switch cycle you would advance the
reading 36kms/hr at 1hz so 100Hz which should be possible
would give you 3600kms/hr 1KHz would look to be ideal as it
would give you 36,000kms/hr.

A bench grinder would also work with a magnet fixed to it
and the sensor held next to it. That might take a good bit
longer depending on the speed of the grinder.


Ah, yes, clocking it all back in by pretending a 4120mi ride.
Good idea. I could take an old printer motor, mout a wooden
disc, glue a little magent on that and strap the whole thing
into the spokes.

It would probably take days though since the speedometer will
peg somewhere. And eat a lot of the new battery's juice which
would kind of defeat the purpose.


There are sensors which can read 1720~1760rpm (grinder
speeds) but a copper-steel reed switch is not one of them.


Reed switches would be way too expensive for such products.
It's usually just a coil. Almost has to be because it must
generate a voltage that triggers the turned-off meter circuitry
to turn on upon wheel rotation.

No, it has to be a switch because a coil would have ****-poor
battery life.


Not if it's designed right and the impulse triggers a dormant
circuit which then starts the whole speedometer. A pre-bias to
narrow the threshold could be done with less than a micro-ampere.
The downside is that is doesn't work at extremely slow wheel
rotation but nobody really needs that.


That does sound correct but that would mean that if you placed a
magnet a little too far away from the detector, that it would have a
stronger field with an increase in speed. So it would report speed at
higher speed but not at lower. And that doesn't appear to be the case
with any of my dozen or so speedos that I've used in the last five
years. Usually you have to have the magnet almost touching the
detector and at higher speeds a slightly too large a distance will
cause the speedo to stop registering.

For such a simple device they sure are a pain in the butt.


Mine quit displaying when the speed drops below about 2.5mph. It would
also happen with a coil but that could be refined by signal pattern
matching. Automatic start-up would still require a few mph unless you
just press a button but afterwards the electronics could "turn on the
super-sniffer".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #30  
Old July 30th 17, 05:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bell Dashboard 100, re-enter odo numbers?

On 2017-07-29 18:20, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 14:48:23 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-07-29 13:46, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-07-29 12:16, wrote:
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 7:06:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-29 02:14, Graham wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
Had to change the battery again on my Bell Dashboard 100
cycling speedometer. Or what they call "cycle computer" In
the manual it says one can re-enter the odometer reading
but nowhere it says how. When I contacted Bell years ago
they said "no, you can't". Does anyone know a secret trick
Bell doesn't know?

I keep a log but it gets old having to calculate to see
when the rear tire or other stuff is nearing end-of-life.
Mainly to avoid a *KAPOW* surprise way out in the boonies.
Many tires don't have TWI.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Looking at your day job from the above link why not just
design a circuit to replicate the job of the magnet which is
only a switch which is creating a pulsed current/voltage read
by the head unit electronics. Then set the tyre size to
maximum and determine the maximum response frequency of the
head unit circuitry and simulate pulses at that frequency. If
the frequency is reasonably high it should not take too long
to reset the mileage. With a tyre circumference of 9999mm, if
it will take that, then you are looking at 10m per Hz.


Sure I could design a meter that works better than commercial
one. However, I've got enough electronics projects as it is.
When I am fully retired, maybe. But then I want to ride instead
of build replacements for messed-up commercial designs. On the
bikes I already had to do that for lighting but there it was a
necessity.

If I ever build my own it will be like what cars have since
over 100 years. A speedometer that is backlit at night, works
off the central battery and most of all never forgets its
odometer info.

I think that he was suggesting that you pulse the meter until it
reaches the mileage you originally had.


Yes, I misunderstood Graham. If almost all brands contain Reed
switches like Andrew said that might not be so great for the
lifetime of that switch. Also, it would eat up battery because
there will be a limit in the speed and I guess that's not the same
at on a Ferrari Testarossa. So I'd have to let that artificial
wheel run a long time in order to get the usual 4000+ miles back
in, and next time 8000+, then 12000+ and so on. Most likely that
takes weeks.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It looks like you still have not got it. Lets forget the grinder idea
as I agree with Andrew about the read switches and that does tend to
rule that idea out. My first idea was to do it electronically with a
simple circuit that would send relatively high frequency pulses to
the appropriate terminals on the head unit to simulate the action of
the switch. From your decription of your background surely this is a
trivial exercise and I am sure you will have the required circuit
components lying around on your bench. See my earlier posts as to how
long it would take at different frquency pulsing if you set the tyre
circumference to 9999mm. 4000 miles would take around 180 hours at
1Hz, 18 hours at 10Hz etc and my guess is that the head unit circuit
should at least cope with that. Any higher frequecy response would be
a bonus.


Yeah, I could hack the cable aoart, roach on a MOSFET, wrap the whole
enchilade with duct take and feed pulses from a function generator :-)

I think in that case the better alternative would be to buy a better
designed meter like the one I have on the MTB (Cateye Padrone) that does
allow odometer re-entry.

I only started this thread to see if someone knows a trick. There is a
discrepancy between the Bell manual and what Bell's customer service
says. The manual explicitly says you should write down the odometer
value before a battery change and then re-enter it after installing a
new battery. Their customer service said that it cannot be done. So one
of them is wrong.


Early on in this thread you mentioned that you "kept a log". If so why
can't you simply add the previous mileage to the present (post battery
change) reading of your bike meter to get total mileage?


That's what I am doing but it would be nice if this could simply be
entered. Which would be just as easy as re-entering the four numbers for
the wheel diameter but it seems their software guys forgot.


I have an annual log application that I wrote and that is what I do.
Simply enter the last year's total at the top of the new log and the
computer shows the current "lifetime total".



In new-speak that's called "an app". I have that for our cars, for my
beer brewing, and all the biz book-keeping. I'll probably set one up for
the road bike as well. I am using the old MS-Works database for this.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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