A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Reasonable expectation...............



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 16th 17, 09:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
Default Reasonable expectation...............

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:30:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 19:59:27 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:33:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:42, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/14/2017 12:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has
a seized seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt
of PTFE penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a
reasonable expectation that it might work loose?

Thanks.

Yes.
The vibration and cyclic loading of the post can free them.
Not always but well worth a daily shot of penetrant and some miles.
Leave the bolt out and cross your fingers!


Might sing soprano after it let go all of a sudden :-)

Its seriously stuck, it'll probably need a lot of twisting to shift it at
all once it starts to loosen.

If I still had a welder, I'd weld a lever arm to it so I could apply
enough
force.

If it is an aluminum seat post in a steel frame and you can't budge it
with a, oh say 24 inch pipe wrench, after a few days of penetrating
oil then it probably won't come out without some serious attention.

I once spent nearly a week to make a boring bar and boring out a stuck
seat tube after all else failed however after reading the Internet I
discovered that dissolving the aluminum tube using lye would have been
much easier :-)


No aluminium - and I wouldn't want a glob of corrosive **** running down
into the BB bracket if there was.


You are supposed to disassemble the bicycle before you start :-(

From the Internet:

As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the
following metals: Tin, Aluminum, zinc, cadmium - behaves closely
enough to zinc. It will also attack chromium plating and copper,
although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper:

The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas.

Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the
alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow;


What would you use in a frame that has been fully chromed?
Ads
  #12  
Old September 16th 17, 10:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 220
Default Reasonable expectation...............



wrote in message
...
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:30:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 19:59:27 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:33:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:42, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/14/2017 12:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has
a seized seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt
of PTFE penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a
reasonable expectation that it might work loose?

Thanks.

Yes.
The vibration and cyclic loading of the post can free them.
Not always but well worth a daily shot of penetrant and some miles.
Leave the bolt out and cross your fingers!


Might sing soprano after it let go all of a sudden :-)

Its seriously stuck, it'll probably need a lot of twisting to shift it
at
all once it starts to loosen.

If I still had a welder, I'd weld a lever arm to it so I could apply
enough
force.

If it is an aluminum seat post in a steel frame and you can't budge it
with a, oh say 24 inch pipe wrench, after a few days of penetrating
oil then it probably won't come out without some serious attention.

I once spent nearly a week to make a boring bar and boring out a stuck
seat tube after all else failed however after reading the Internet I
discovered that dissolving the aluminum tube using lye would have been
much easier :-)

No aluminium - and I wouldn't want a glob of corrosive **** running down
into the BB bracket if there was.


You are supposed to disassemble the bicycle before you start :-(

From the Internet:

As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the
following metals: Tin, Aluminum, zinc, cadmium - behaves closely
enough to zinc. It will also attack chromium plating and copper,
although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper:

The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas.

Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the
alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow;


What would you use in a frame that has been fully chromed?


Aluminium reacts with both acids and bases, But chrome is safe from most
alkalis. Some acids are particularly good at attacking chrome - I think
there's a few that don't damage it much.

  #13  
Old September 17th 17, 04:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,648
Default Reasonable expectation...............

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 13:30:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:30:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 19:59:27 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:33:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:42, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/14/2017 12:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has
a seized seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt
of PTFE penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a
reasonable expectation that it might work loose?

Thanks.

Yes.
The vibration and cyclic loading of the post can free them.
Not always but well worth a daily shot of penetrant and some miles.
Leave the bolt out and cross your fingers!


Might sing soprano after it let go all of a sudden :-)

Its seriously stuck, it'll probably need a lot of twisting to shift it at
all once it starts to loosen.

If I still had a welder, I'd weld a lever arm to it so I could apply
enough
force.

If it is an aluminum seat post in a steel frame and you can't budge it
with a, oh say 24 inch pipe wrench, after a few days of penetrating
oil then it probably won't come out without some serious attention.

I once spent nearly a week to make a boring bar and boring out a stuck
seat tube after all else failed however after reading the Internet I
discovered that dissolving the aluminum tube using lye would have been
much easier :-)

No aluminium - and I wouldn't want a glob of corrosive **** running down
into the BB bracket if there was.


You are supposed to disassemble the bicycle before you start :-(

From the Internet:

As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the
following metals: Tin, Aluminum, zinc, cadmium - behaves closely
enough to zinc. It will also attack chromium plating and copper,
although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper:

The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas.

Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the
alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow;


What would you use in a frame that has been fully chromed?


Well, not lye :-)

Sheldon writes that "Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like
magic by using ammonia" however Brandt disagreed :-)

I have no idea whether ammonia attacks chromium and "chrome plating"
is often several metals rather that just one so regardless of whether
something did or did not attack chromium it might attack an underlying
metal.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #14  
Old September 17th 17, 05:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
Default Reasonable expectation...............

On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 8:47:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 13:30:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:30:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 19:59:27 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:33:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:42, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/14/2017 12:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has
a seized seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt
of PTFE penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a
reasonable expectation that it might work loose?

Thanks.

Yes.
The vibration and cyclic loading of the post can free them.
Not always but well worth a daily shot of penetrant and some miles.
Leave the bolt out and cross your fingers!


Might sing soprano after it let go all of a sudden :-)

Its seriously stuck, it'll probably need a lot of twisting to shift it at
all once it starts to loosen.

If I still had a welder, I'd weld a lever arm to it so I could apply
enough
force.

If it is an aluminum seat post in a steel frame and you can't budge it
with a, oh say 24 inch pipe wrench, after a few days of penetrating
oil then it probably won't come out without some serious attention.

I once spent nearly a week to make a boring bar and boring out a stuck
seat tube after all else failed however after reading the Internet I
discovered that dissolving the aluminum tube using lye would have been
much easier :-)

No aluminium - and I wouldn't want a glob of corrosive **** running down
into the BB bracket if there was.

You are supposed to disassemble the bicycle before you start :-(

From the Internet:

As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the
following metals: Tin, Aluminum, zinc, cadmium - behaves closely
enough to zinc. It will also attack chromium plating and copper,
although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper:

The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas.

Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the
alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow;


What would you use in a frame that has been fully chromed?


Well, not lye :-)

Sheldon writes that "Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like
magic by using ammonia" however Brandt disagreed :-)

I have no idea whether ammonia attacks chromium and "chrome plating"
is often several metals rather that just one so regardless of whether
something did or did not attack chromium it might attack an underlying
metal.


Pinarello frames are often completely chromed under the paint. Somewhere there was a video of them using baking soda to allow rechroming. I know that the fork on the Pinarello I'm restoring was pretty badly rusted in places. The chrome shop perfectly restored it in one day. There are pin holes here and there but I can't remember any rechroming that didn't have those. Oddly enough the pin holes are not anywhere near where the rust was. Those areas are perfect.
  #15  
Old September 17th 17, 06:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 220
Default Reasonable expectation...............



"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 13:30:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:30:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 19:59:27 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:33:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:42, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/14/2017 12:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has
a seized seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt
of PTFE penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a
reasonable expectation that it might work loose?

Thanks.

Yes.
The vibration and cyclic loading of the post can free them.
Not always but well worth a daily shot of penetrant and some
miles.
Leave the bolt out and cross your fingers!


Might sing soprano after it let go all of a sudden :-)

Its seriously stuck, it'll probably need a lot of twisting to shift
it at
all once it starts to loosen.

If I still had a welder, I'd weld a lever arm to it so I could apply
enough
force.

If it is an aluminum seat post in a steel frame and you can't budge
it
with a, oh say 24 inch pipe wrench, after a few days of penetrating
oil then it probably won't come out without some serious attention.

I once spent nearly a week to make a boring bar and boring out a
stuck
seat tube after all else failed however after reading the Internet I
discovered that dissolving the aluminum tube using lye would have
been
much easier :-)

No aluminium - and I wouldn't want a glob of corrosive **** running
down
into the BB bracket if there was.

You are supposed to disassemble the bicycle before you start :-(

From the Internet:

As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the
following metals: Tin, Aluminum, zinc, cadmium - behaves closely
enough to zinc. It will also attack chromium plating and copper,
although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper:

The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas.

Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the
alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow;


What would you use in a frame that has been fully chromed?


Well, not lye :-)

Sheldon writes that "Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like
magic by using ammonia" however Brandt disagreed :-)

I have no idea whether ammonia attacks chromium and "chrome plating"


Ammonia is common in cleaning products - I've never noticed any problem
using it on chrome plated fittings.

I used to clean E-cigarette wicks by soaking in ammonia, the housing is
stainless steel - there were no visible signs of corrosion.

  #16  
Old September 17th 17, 07:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,073
Default Reasonable expectation...............

On 9/17/2017 11:48 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 8:47:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 13:30:10 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 7:30:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 19:59:27 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:33:17 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:42, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/14/2017 12:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has
a seized seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt
of PTFE penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a
reasonable expectation that it might work loose?

Thanks.

Yes.
The vibration and cyclic loading of the post can free them.
Not always but well worth a daily shot of penetrant and some miles.
Leave the bolt out and cross your fingers!


Might sing soprano after it let go all of a sudden :-)

Its seriously stuck, it'll probably need a lot of twisting to shift it at
all once it starts to loosen.

If I still had a welder, I'd weld a lever arm to it so I could apply
enough
force.

If it is an aluminum seat post in a steel frame and you can't budge it
with a, oh say 24 inch pipe wrench, after a few days of penetrating
oil then it probably won't come out without some serious attention.

I once spent nearly a week to make a boring bar and boring out a stuck
seat tube after all else failed however after reading the Internet I
discovered that dissolving the aluminum tube using lye would have been
much easier :-)

No aluminium - and I wouldn't want a glob of corrosive **** running down
into the BB bracket if there was.

You are supposed to disassemble the bicycle before you start :-(

From the Internet:

As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the
following metals: Tin, Aluminum, zinc, cadmium - behaves closely
enough to zinc. It will also attack chromium plating and copper,
although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper:

The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas.

Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the
alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow;

What would you use in a frame that has been fully chromed?


Well, not lye :-)

Sheldon writes that "Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like
magic by using ammonia" however Brandt disagreed :-)

I have no idea whether ammonia attacks chromium and "chrome plating"
is often several metals rather that just one so regardless of whether
something did or did not attack chromium it might attack an underlying
metal.


Pinarello frames are often completely chromed under the paint. Somewhere there was a video of them using baking soda to allow rechroming. I know that the fork on the Pinarello I'm restoring was pretty badly rusted in places. The chrome shop perfectly restored it in one day. There are pin holes here and there but I can't remember any rechroming that didn't have those. Oddly enough the pin holes are not anywhere near where the rust was. Those areas are perfect.


not 'baking powder' but rather reversed polarity in a
caustic soda (lye) bath.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #17  
Old September 21st 17, 07:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 220
Default Reasonable expectation...............



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-14 10:32, Ian Field wrote:
The bike I built up on a frame I dragged out of a hedge has a seized
seat post.

So far; I've slackened the clamp bolt and give it a squirt of PTFE
penetrating oil at least once a day - is there a reasonable expectation
that it might work loose?


If it's a steel frame and steel post probably not. If both aluminum,
maybe. Other tricks:

Stand the bike on its head and let penetrating out run from the BB area
down inside the seat tune. Let it sit like this for days. The drain hole
in the BB tube could suffice to get the oil in there without having to
remove the BB (if that ever comes out).


Can't remember how much grease I packed in the BB housing - that trick might
not work.

Last time i posted it was totally stuck solid. last night I was able to
force it round just a little bit - Can't be 100% certain the seat clamp
wasn't turning on the post, but I tightened the clamp as hard as possible
last time.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reasonable? Necessary? You Decide Nuxx Bar UK 135 March 11th 08 11:19 PM
No reasonable expectation of a bike on the side of the road TimC Australia 32 December 8th 06 01:12 AM
Is this just and reasonable? Bill C Racing 16 August 4th 06 02:22 PM
WTB - reasonable tri/TT wheels MJR Marketplace 0 July 6th 06 02:48 PM
LBS reasonable markup Keith Vetter General 57 June 17th 04 03:01 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.