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Interbike 2017



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 23rd 17, 02:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,024
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/22/2017 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
Photos with text at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing


Interbike is in a Death Spiral

E-Bikes

Lights

Cleaning and Lubrication

Bamboo

Cameras

Power Meters

Smart Helmets

Folding Bikes

Locks

WIKE Salamander

Pure Cycles

Rod Brakes Are Back!

Tent

What I Won

What I bought

I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes
instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled
back in time.

BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris
King.* He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK
quit manufacturing Cielo in August.* It has also laid-off a lot of
employees from its core component business since this article:
https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074
Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market.

The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive
their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is
not keeping up.* It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on
that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much,
being that it is still popular.* Is it because of eBikes or
something else?

I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford
students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on
college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost
in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which
is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying
the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin
to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was
"good looking," or "好看."

Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other
night.* I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart
attack.* As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty
return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my
new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some
nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed
for hydraulic brakes.* I'm going to work on that tonight.

Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where
there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's
more recreational.


It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use
it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today.

It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here,
but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes
since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just
lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except
for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to
thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that,
and she drops me off the lights.

-- Jay Beattie.


I sincerely just don't get it.
Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped?


You can ride a e-bike on bicycle multi-use paths. Mopeds aren't allowed.
Even when motorized bicycles aren't allowed, a lot of them are not
obvious enough for anyone to complain, and since on the "pedal assist"
models you have to be pedaling, there's some legal distinction in some
states.
Ads
  #12  
Old September 23rd 17, 09:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Interbike 2017

On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 3:14:48 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
Photos with text at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing

Interbike is in a Death Spiral

E-Bikes

Lights

Cleaning and Lubrication

Bamboo

Cameras

Power Meters

Smart Helmets

Folding Bikes

Locks

WIKE Salamander

Pure Cycles

Rod Brakes Are Back!

Tent

What I Won

What I bought

I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time.

BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article: https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market.

The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else?

I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford
students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on
college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost
in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which
is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying
the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin
to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was
"good looking," or "好看."

Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack.. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight.

Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where
there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's
more recreational.


It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today.

It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights..

-- Jay Beattie.


I sincerely just don't get it.
Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped?


1 out of 3 sold bikes here in the Netherlands is a E bike and sales going up every year. The majority electric assisted (up to 25 km/hr). The people aren't 'ashamed' anymore and they really look like a normal bike. We have a discussion now because more deadly accidents happened the last year due to accidents involving E bikes. Older people can't handle the speed and that heavy bike.


Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not
a bicycle.


We don't carry bikes upstairs.


If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates
than an electric thingy.


You are missing the point Andrew. If you had a utility bike shop here you would go out of business if you didn't offer E bikes.


Lou
  #13  
Old September 23rd 17, 12:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,265
Default Interbike 2017

Where's the 1 liter car ?

A profile from Jones

https://www.google.com/search?q=prof...obile&ie=UTF-8
  #14  
Old September 23rd 17, 02:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
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Posts: 1,276
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/22/2017 8:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I sincerely just don't get it.
Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped?

https://www.amazon.com/Street-Legal-..._&dpSrc=detail


Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not a bicycle.

If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates than an
electric thingy.



Short version:

1. The China scooters are 1/5th the price of the Japanese stuff, but
they suffer a lot of reliability issues and have no dealer support.

2. Normal motorcycle shops won't work on them, for various reasons, so
when the thing breaks you will probably have to fix it yourself. That
is--IF you can find anywhere to buy the correct parts...

Disclaimer: I've never owned one. Some friends and acquaintances bought
them.

The China scooters got wildly popular in my area a number of years back,
because a few of the local independent use-car lots began selling them
right off the lots.

The scooters were cheap and looked good, but the reliability sucked.

Within ~3 years all three of the places selling them all stopped for
various reasons, and the scooters disappeared from the roads within a
couple years after.

They're still cheap on the internet--but lots of user reviews say that
the problems are still the same--poor reliability and no dealer/parts
support.

Meanwhile--the people I know who bought Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha/Suzuki
scooters are still riding them around, 10+ years later.

The China 50cc scooters cost $500, and the Japanese 50cc scooters cost
~$2500. If you buy a China 50cc scooter and you get one year of moderate
use out of it, you probably got your money's worth.

,,,,,,,,,,

So with this information added to the comparison--I would dare say that
a $500 e-bike may be a better deal for most people (for short-range use)
than a $500 50cc China scooter.

1. The e-bike requires no license or insurance or fuel, and can be used
on bicycle-only routes.
2. If (when) either breaks down, the e-bike is a lot easier for an
average person to fix themselves.





  #15  
Old September 23rd 17, 03:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,276
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/22/2017 8:43 PM, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 5:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
,,,
I rode one eBike on the test track that was amazingly powerful. The ones
with the manual throttle tend to be more powerful than the ones with
"pedal assist." "Pedal assist" is apparently a legal thing, to prevent
it from being classified as a moped or motorbike.


This is known as the "e-vehicle façade", if you did not know...

Piston motors have very low torque when idling and usually have their
power peak up around 75% of their maximum RPMs.

Electric motors generally put out their maximum torque at zero RPMs and
their torque decreases as RPMs go up. So e-vehicles typically have HUGE
power when accelerating, especially from a standstill. This is easy for
dealers to demonstrate, and it is usually pretty impressive. And it's
been this way always: there are articles online from electric cars 100
years ago where people talked about it.

The two major shortcoming of e-vehicles (that use on-board storage
batteries) are things that you don't notice on a short test drive. The
first is overall range, and the second is the actual-cost-per-mile,
after battery replacement is factored in.

The highest operating cost is not the electricity involved in changing
the batteries, it is replacing the batteries as they expire. And they
all do expire. The current crop of e-car makers insists it's not an
issue, but they warranty the batteries for the original purchaser--which
only means that the person who bought the car new won't get stuck with
replacement battery costs. That (BIG) bill is getting dropped on the
next person who buys the car used.

A MAJOR chapter of the e-car story is not yet written: what happens when
these new cars become used cars and nobody will buy them because they
immediately need a $3000-$5000+ battery put in? Is the dealer going to
pay for that too? Or will there be another govt subsidy? If not, then
how much would you pay for any new car that had little to no resale
value?.... Stay tuned....

Replacement battery costs is the reason that no battery-powered large
vehicles have ever come into common use before.

By far, the most common electric vehicles world-wide is trains, that are
fed from overhead wires and so are freed from the costs of batteries
entirely. The most popular options for Tesla cars may yet become a
pantograph.




  #16  
Old September 23rd 17, 03:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,468
Default Interbike 2017

On 9/23/2017 4:44 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 3:14:48 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
Photos with text at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing

Interbike is in a Death Spiral

E-Bikes

Lights

Cleaning and Lubrication

Bamboo

Cameras

Power Meters

Smart Helmets

Folding Bikes

Locks

WIKE Salamander

Pure Cycles

Rod Brakes Are Back!

Tent

What I Won

What I bought

I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled back in time.

BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris King. He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK quit manufacturing Cielo in August. It has also laid-off a lot of employees from its core component business since this article:
https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074 Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market.

The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is not keeping up. It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much, being that it is still popular. Is it because of eBikes or something else?

I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford
students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on
college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost
in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which
is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying
the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin
to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was
"good looking," or "好看."

Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other night. I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart attack. As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed for hydraulic brakes. I'm going to work on that tonight.

Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where
there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's
more recreational.

It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today.

It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here, but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that, and she drops me off the lights.

-- Jay Beattie.


I sincerely just don't get it.
Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped?


1 out of 3 sold bikes here in the Netherlands is a E bike and sales going up every year. The majority electric assisted (up to 25 km/hr). The people aren't 'ashamed' anymore and they really look like a normal bike. We have a discussion now because more deadly accidents happened the last year due to accidents involving E bikes. Older people can't handle the speed and that heavy bike.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ce-netherlands

Similar features - Too heavy to carry upstairs and it's not
a bicycle.


We don't carry bikes upstairs.


If you want power, that's available at much cheaper rates
than an electric thingy.


I don't understand this remark of Andrew's. It's true that burning
gasoline can give you a lot more power, but "rate" implied dividing by
some quantity. I don't know what Andrew's dividing by.

Still, there are other advantages to electric drives: less maintenance,
less noise, less excess heat, more controllability.

One might propose a scale of power requirements, with (say) power
screwdrivers and hand drills on the lower end, and locomotives and ocean
liners on the upper end. We may need to burn fuel to make sufficient
power at the big end, but almost nobody wants a gasoline powered hand
drill. Electricity makes more sense at the small end of the spectrum,
and it's gaining ground every year, and moving up the spectrum into
cars, buses and trucks.

Electric drive definitely makes more sense for bikes. Whizzer motors for
bikes have been around forever. They'll never be popular.
You are missing the point Andrew. If you had a utility bike shop here you would go out of business if you didn't offer E bikes.


But I do see problems with unskilled novices doing 25 mph among crowds
of 10 mph cyclists.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old September 23rd 17, 04:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,809
Default Interbike 2017

On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 6:47:11 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2017 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 5:26:32 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2017 3:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 2:31:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
Photos with text at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE/edit?usp=sharing


Interbike is in a Death Spiral

E-Bikes

Lights

Cleaning and Lubrication

Bamboo

Cameras

Power Meters

Smart Helmets

Folding Bikes

Locks

WIKE Salamander

Pure Cycles

Rod Brakes Are Back!

Tent

What I Won

What I bought

I thought I missed the boat because my new bike will have rim brakes
instead of discs. I should have waited for rod brakes -- or traveled
back in time.

BTW, I rode with a guy last week who had been in marketing for Chris
King.* He was riding a Cielo with CK components. Pretty bike. CK
quit manufacturing Cielo in August.* It has also laid-off a lot of
employees from its core component business since this article:
https://bikeportland.org/2017/08/16/...-frames-239074
Whole lot of hurting going on in the high-end market.

The same guy then went to work for Mavic trying to help them revive
their brand in the US -- another slow death from a company that is
not keeping up.* It bought Enve, so it will probably concentrate on
that brand. It seems odd that bicycle sales are struggling so much,
being that it is still popular.* Is it because of eBikes or
something else?

I was in a store near Stanford this afternoon. There were five Stanford
students buying new bicycles. When you're spending $80K a year on
college (or your parents are), the cost of a bicycle is pretty much lost
in the noise. Stanford is a big biking campus and it's very large. Which
is why it was depressing that the store was Walmart and they were buying
the worst pieces of crap you can imagine. I understood enough Mandarin
to know what they were talking about. One girl said that the bicycle was
"good looking," or "好看."

Speaking of eBikes, I got dumped by some chick on an eBike the other
night.* I was struggling to keep up and thought I was having a heart
attack.* As it turned out, my rear cable disc was stuck on. ****ty
return springs on the first-gen BB7s, and the rear cable run on my
new warranty-repalcement CAADX is all in housing and takes some
nasty turns, so the system is pretty draggy. It was really designed
for hydraulic brakes.* I'm going to work on that tonight.

Apparently e-bikes are extremely popular in Europe and Asia where
there's more transportational cycling, and not in the U.S. where it's
more recreational.

It's cheating, but I'm going to buy one for my wife -- and then use
it. Sorry, honey, got to take the eBike today.

It's the rare transportational cyclist riding an eBike around here,
but that may change over time. I have no qualms about drafting eBikes
since most are too fast to be in the bike lanes anyway. Some are just
lightweight motorcycles. It's like Kommuter Keirin for me -- except
for this one woman I see a lot who has an eCargoBike that goes zero to
thirty in like a second. I don't have the thighs or lungs for that,
and she drops me off the lights.

-- Jay Beattie.


I sincerely just don't get it.
Is it faster than a much less expensive new moped?


You can ride a e-bike on bicycle multi-use paths. Mopeds aren't allowed.
Even when motorized bicycles aren't allowed, a lot of them are not
obvious enough for anyone to complain, and since on the "pedal assist"
models you have to be pedaling, there's some legal distinction in some
states.


That's exactly it -- beating traffic without undue exertion. You can't lane split on a motorcycle here in Oregon, so next best thing -- speed in the bike lane. I'm interested in what Lou has to say and the experience in NL because it seems like a dangerous mix -- but then again, you get some of the same problems mixing stronger and weaker riders even without motors. We're no Amsterdam, but we do have a lot of bicycles for a US city, and bike conflicts are common in some places.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #18  
Old September 23rd 17, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Interbike 2017

There was one Korean company that is coming out with a very nice e-bike mid-drive conversion kit in 2018. You don't lose the front derailleur. A cylindrical battery pack attaches to the motor and mounts under the downtube--no wires to a remote battery. Only the left crank arm is removed for installation. It's not on their web site yet. With other mid-drive conversions you only have a single chain wheel.

This company also had some very high quality bicycle lights, including a new 5000 lumen model. 500 lumen appears to be the low end now for lighting companies, 1500-2000 is mid-range, 2500-5000 is high-end. But like many companies, they won't sell through QBP and few shops will meet their MOQ. Very good marketing person, who spoke perfect English in the booth. The Korean companies tend to have their act together at trade shows.

http://www.luutech.com
  #19  
Old September 24th 17, 01:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,265
Default Interbike 2017

Jay gonna buy a Yama ha ? Go for it.

Minus on your legs. Keep track !
  #20  
Old September 24th 17, 01:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,265
Default Interbike 2017

Cycling environment Lou brought us maybe Lou's garage

https://www.google.com/search?client...iw=360&bih=560

 




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