NY bike path mayhem

On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

1 April, 1971

interesting random mix

https://www.google.com/search?q=prin...1113&b ih=610

hunters n cops get worked up in battle: extremely viscous, harried, bad shot, multiple rounds .... testing proficiency in real time conditions is ?

wonder what the teaching/guideline conditions are for targeting ?

lot different than Sweden Norway England

conditions for targeting 'terrorists' should be more exact in no kill/capture.

we can start here.

surrounding is best even in 'wheeee battlefield conditions' ol' potbelly car squab

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time
and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They
sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these
things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day
discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight
empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan
'lack' of lethal drugs.
http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/

There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots.

Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative

and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...in-prison.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 08:45:54 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill
people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for
the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick
and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's
with all the failed cocktails?

In the case of lethal injection executions, the phamaceutical companies
of the primary fatal drugs used have generally declined to sell the
drugs to the state for that purpose. In some cases, those drugs are
manufactured in places where the death penalty is illegal which is a
factor as well as the ethical issues involved.

Interestingly, there is precedent for the government to co-opt any
relevant patents and to manufacture the desired drugs themselves or
to contract out said manufacture to a cooperative supplier. Yet while
this is well-known, the government at either state or federal levels has
not done so.

Personally, I object to the death penatly on conservative grounds. If
the government has no business taking one's money through taxation (as
many conservatives believe), it certainly has no business taking
someone's life. And since our justice system is imperfect and a
percentage of people in prison were wrongfully convicted, the issue is
even more fraught. You can release a wrongfully convicted person from
prison and make some restitution to them, but you cannot release someone
from the grave.

http://tinyurl.com/yajf3mq8

https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna...united-states/

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...onvictions.cfm

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 08:45:54 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill
people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for
the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick
and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's
with all the failed cocktails?

In the case of lethal injection executions, the phamaceutical companies
of the primary fatal drugs used have generally declined to sell the
drugs to the state for that purpose. In some cases, those drugs are
manufactured in places where the death penalty is illegal which is a
factor as well as the ethical issues involved.

Interestingly, there is precedent for the government to co-opt any
relevant patents and to manufacture the desired drugs themselves or
to contract out said manufacture to a cooperative supplier. Yet while
this is well-known, the government at either state or federal levels has
not done so.

Personally, I object to the death penatly on conservative grounds. If
the government has no business taking one's money through taxation (as
many conservatives believe), it certainly has no business taking
someone's life. And since our justice system is imperfect and a
percentage of people in prison were wrongfully convicted, the issue is
even more fraught. You can release a wrongfully convicted person from
prison and make some restitution to them, but you cannot release someone
from the grave.

http://tinyurl.com/yajf3mq8

https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna...united-states/

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...onvictions.cfm

As for the accuracy of convictions, some cases are obvious, and the chance of a wrong outcome is virtually zero, e.g., some guy running a truck into a bunch of cyclists with the mayhem captured on an iPhone followed by an immediate arrest. I think death is an acceptable penalty in those situations. Lawful execution after appropriate process does not offend me, but I have to admit my view of human life is colored by working ambulance during my formative years. I imagine veterans are even more callous. Dying after significant process and for a reason would bring me more solace than just dying for no particular reason except that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- like the kid at the finish line in Boston or the long-time school friends from Argentina on a NYC bike path, or [fill in the blank].

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/5/2017 1:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 08:45:54 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill
people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for
the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick
and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's
with all the failed cocktails?

In the case of lethal injection executions, the phamaceutical companies
of the primary fatal drugs used have generally declined to sell the
drugs to the state for that purpose. In some cases, those drugs are
manufactured in places where the death penalty is illegal which is a
factor as well as the ethical issues involved.

Interestingly, there is precedent for the government to co-opt any
relevant patents and to manufacture the desired drugs themselves or
to contract out said manufacture to a cooperative supplier. Yet while
this is well-known, the government at either state or federal levels has
not done so.

Personally, I object to the death penatly on conservative grounds. If
the government has no business taking one's money through taxation (as
many conservatives believe), it certainly has no business taking
someone's life. And since our justice system is imperfect and a
percentage of people in prison were wrongfully convicted, the issue is
even more fraught. You can release a wrongfully convicted person from
prison and make some restitution to them, but you cannot release someone
from the grave.

http://tinyurl.com/yajf3mq8

https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna...united-states/

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...onvictions.cfm

As for the accuracy of convictions, some cases are obvious, and the chance of a wrong outcome is virtually zero, e.g., some guy running a truck into a bunch of cyclists with the mayhem captured on an iPhone followed by an immediate arrest. I think death is an acceptable penalty in those situations. Lawful execution after appropriate process does not offend me, but I have to admit my view of human life is colored by working ambulance during my formative years. I imagine veterans are even more callous. Dying after significant process and for a reason would bring me more solace than just dying for no particular reason except that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- like the kid at the finish line in Boston or the long-time school friends from Argentina on a NYC bike path, or [fill in the blank].

-- Jay Beattie.


+1
If 'beyond a reasonable doubt' were the actual standard,
executions would be seen in a better light. Ineptitude,
slack, indolence and perhaps even official corruption taint
the record. Tim's right that even a few wrongful deaths
leave many of us uneasy.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:02:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 9:39:44 AM UTC-8, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 08:45:54 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill
people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for
the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick
and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's
with all the failed cocktails?

In the case of lethal injection executions, the phamaceutical companies
of the primary fatal drugs used have generally declined to sell the
drugs to the state for that purpose. In some cases, those drugs are
manufactured in places where the death penalty is illegal which is a
factor as well as the ethical issues involved.

Interestingly, there is precedent for the government to co-opt any
relevant patents and to manufacture the desired drugs themselves or
to contract out said manufacture to a cooperative supplier. Yet while
this is well-known, the government at either state or federal levels has
not done so.

Personally, I object to the death penatly on conservative grounds. If
the government has no business taking one's money through taxation (as
many conservatives believe), it certainly has no business taking
someone's life. And since our justice system is imperfect and a
percentage of people in prison were wrongfully convicted, the issue is
even more fraught. You can release a wrongfully convicted person from
prison and make some restitution to them, but you cannot release someone
from the grave.

http://tinyurl.com/yajf3mq8

https://www.innocenceproject.org/dna...united-states/

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...onvictions.cfm

As for the accuracy of convictions, some cases are obvious, and the chance of a wrong outcome is virtually zero, e.g., some guy running a truck into a bunch of cyclists with the mayhem captured on an iPhone followed by an immediate arrest. I think death is an acceptable penalty in those situations.. Lawful execution after appropriate process does not offend me, but I have to admit my view of human life is colored by working ambulance during my formative years. I imagine veterans are even more callous. Dying after significant process and for a reason would bring me more solace than just dying for no particular reason except that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- like the kid at the finish line in Boston or the long-time school friends from Argentina on a NYC bike path, or [fill in the blank].

-- Jay Beattie.

goo.gl/4we11b

is for the GNW n Metro East Coast not us vs them

a broad spectrum divided into 3 parts.

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time
and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They
sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these
things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day
discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight
empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan
'lack' of lethal drugs.
http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/

There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots.

Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative

and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71

It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state
prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of
shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize
about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many
things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and
pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks
here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a
kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time
and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They
sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these
things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day
discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight
empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan
'lack' of lethal drugs.
http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/

There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots.

Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative

and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71

It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski

I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.