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MTB disc brake caused wild fire



 
 
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  #61  
Old March 31st 18, 07:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On 2018-03-31 08:23, wrote:
Op zaterdag 31 maart 2018 16:20:28 UTC+2 schreef Joerg:
On 2018-03-30 10:31,
wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 5:03:12 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2,
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade
and that's scary. Then they require bleeding
which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there
is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are
fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy
duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that
is harder than tool steel, nails and rocks, I'm
sure you could build a front wheel for your MTB
using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and
lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am
quite pleased with the brake performance of my MTB.
The bleeding is messy but only needs to be done
about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear
brake starts feeling soft. Braking is still fine and
most other riders just leave it like that but I like
the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a
brake failure on a long downhill which here in the
hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now
and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be
doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no
mountain lions. Of course they work for you.


There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to
ride through rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a
state where you can't even seem them anymore.

The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well,
except they can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage
cabinet.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt
you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In
total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had
a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco...


Where do you take your CX bike? Eastern Belgium? Or to the Alps?


Just in my backyard, most of the time just across the German border.
Once in a while I make a clip of our ride. You can download (it is
save) a clip of a typical sunday morning winter ride here

https://we.tl/6awaXeHLBp


That's not a lot of dirt, just wee mud puddles on a meandering forest
path. Also, it's totally flat so you won't experience what I did when I
rode an MTB with rim brakes: Muddy trail like yours but downhill.
Reached in, nothing, only horrid sandpaper sounds, sharp turn with cliff
approaching fast. I almost needed a bathroom after that. This simply
does not happen with disc brakes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Not unusual:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/0KviHxMzDlHsok3H3


Right, and an attentive viewer will notice that the bike in your photo
link has disc brakes. Applying rim brakes under that condition will
cause a substantial delay until the brake force appears. In your video
it wouldn't matter because it's all flatlands and you won't encounter a
sharp turn with a cliff on the outside. Like this are 0:51min, 1:13min,
1:29min, 1:35min and so on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1USLVraV4mU

It's one of my regular routes. I would not want to ride that in the rain
with a rim brake bike, it would be no fun.

Mud will also eat rims. At least out here where there is lots of sand
mixed in such mud. When my old MTB had around 1000mi on it there were
already deep grooves in the rims. By that time I had made the decision
that this isn't going to work and bought a proper MTB with disc brakes
and all. I still have the old one but it is now my "commute mule" to
take along in the SUV on business trips. Most of those are to the
flatlands and there the bike is fine.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #62  
Old March 31st 18, 08:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On 2018-03-31 09:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 8:03:54 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 18:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:25:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 3/29/2018 5:34 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's
scary. Then they require bleeding which, depending on the
kind, is a messy business. On mine particularly so
because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes
are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB
riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to
mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have
cables that weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is
cable the others are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set
up you feed them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish)
miles commuting disks and preferably Hydro are game changers
in terms of performance and maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap
between the two, my gravel bikes cable disks is about as
powerful as the old commute MTB with its older and cheaper
Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to my Full
suspension MTB.

"Embarrassingly weak" sounds strange to me. Aren't you really
talking about overall mechanical advantage - that is, lever
force vs. braking force?

Practical braking force, especially off-road, is limited by
traction and/or by risk of pitchover. I fail to see why
getting that amount of force from a one pound lever force is
better than getting it from a two pound lever force. I can
squeeze a two pound force all day.

Gads, I'm afraid to ride home on my cable discs, and I might
even ride home on this odd-ball trail:
https://swtrails.files.wordpress.com...er-freeway.jpg





In California might not want to. There'd be a sizeable homeless camp
under there and they might not like it when someone rolls through
"their" turf.


I rode home up this trail:
http://fot.delaris.com/images/upload...ail__large.jpg
It's f****** steep -- steeper than it looks, and it narrows. I
stalled out near the top and got stuck on a section with a little
leafy cliff to the left. I had to scooter to a place where I could
swing my leg over the saddle. That's the problem with CX bikes and
high BBs.



Sometimes it helps to just lay yourself into the uphill side vegetation
and roll off the bike with the hillside leg stretched backwards. Of
course, one first has to ascertain whether something lives in the
vegetation that might object to being squished.


... I was also on semi-slicks, and I was probably not supposed
to be on the trail in the first place. One gets bored with the usual
routes home and does stupid things.


I do that a lot with my road bike. Oh, there is a nice little trail!
Wish I was on my MTB. Ah, heck, lets ride it anyhow.


The homeless people are back in the woods but more on the actual
paved bike paths. I attempted to ride home on this trail (from the
bottom up) and ran into a bunch of camp sites.



Similar here, though many have moved to Sacramento because they elected
a major who keeps promising them freebies. Oh well, that's no my tax
dollars. Most are friendly but there is the occasional burly looking guy
who is clearly mentally off his rocker. Where it has gotten really bad
is the Western part of the American River bike Path. Cyclists have been
attacked by pitbulls from homeless people, rocks were thrown at cyclists
and one guy was wielding a machete.


https://www.brokenandcoastal.com/jou...w-natural-area
This is almost in my back yard and was open to bikes when it was
privately owned (by the same folks who built my neighborhood in the
'50s). The City bought it and banned bikes because (drum roll), too
many cars at the trail head in the neighborhood. The neighbors were
complaining. I used to ride it on my CX bike. Great practice riding
over root pots.


I can't do that on CX anymore on account of a bad back. One missed root
or rut or getting out of the saddle a second too late and I'd pay for
that for days. Plus I'd break the bike because I always carry some load.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #63  
Old April 1st 18, 12:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 07:28:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-30 16:56, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 07:19:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-30 02:04, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.


Now try that again when the rims are wet. With locking up I mean
instantly, tens of milliseconds.


A recent study demonstrated that an auditory stimulus takes 8 - 10 ms
to reach the brain, but on the other hand, a visual stimulus takes
20-40 ms. After the brain recognizes the event it must trigger the
muscles to react. Most texts seem to suggest that a good reaction time
is anywhere between 0.25 seconds and 0.35 seconds. Or 250 - 350
milliseconds. Your 10 millisecond reaction is much quicker then has
been tested in humans.... One can only assume that you are from
Krypton.


Ever heard of the term "muscle memory"?


Yup. and I am also aware of the old barroom game where you hold your
thumb and forefinger about an inch apart and a guy dangles a dollar
bill between them. the game is when he drops the bill you catch it
without moving your hand up or down, and you probably can't do it.

I've been playing the game for, probably, forty years and haven't come
across more then 10 or a dozen individuals in all those years who can
catch the bill.

As I said, one can only assume that you are from Krypton.




Anyhow, it doesn't matter. Even if your decision and action takes a
whopping half second and _then_ you pull the brake lever, it does matter
whether the braking occurs instantly or 1-2sec delay _after_ pulling the
lever. If a turn with a cliff is coming up it matters a whole lot.

Rim brakes are something for the dust bin of history just like the old
rubber pads that pushed onto the running surface of the front tire.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #64  
Old April 1st 18, 12:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:34:20 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/31/2018 9:16 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 08:42, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 8:03:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote:



[...]

Story time: I was born and raised in California and
raced NorCal
and used to ride a lot with a guy from Vancouver,
Washington. He
would step out from his apartment, look up and say
"another nice
day." I didn't know what he was taking about until I
moved to
Portland. He would go to Portland every year at Fourth
of July
for the races at Alpenrose.
https://www.bicycleattorney.com/img/...015-oregon.jpg



He would come back and tell me that it rained. WTF? In
July? We
were cooking in July.

Anyway, even in the Central Valley you can get some epic
rain
storms, and in Joergville, maybe a dusting of snow now
and then
and some rain. It is, however, a dry climate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnBoGhNWXx4


Nah, this is the real Cameron Park:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu7DULHr738
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKoIsNda8s

I've flown in there with my brother a few times -- it's a
quick spin
from STS and Santa Rosa. I could not imagine living near
an airstrip,
however.

You better visit St. George before moving. It's the moon
compared to
the Sierra foothills.



Yes, I'd have to re-visit. We used to hike a lot in Utah
when we were younger. It's not the moon, just different.
Vegetation is often thin and low but you have endless
trails. In the rocky areas you can pretty much point
yourself in a certain direction and just go. Until you reach
some cliff and then a gorgeous view opens.

One major advantage in Southern Utah is that almost nothing
grows. Meaning much less weed pulling than here. My ideal
backyard consists of sand, a rock and a cactus. The cactus
is optional.


... If I were you, I'd go to Europe -- one of
those, warm picturesque places around the Mediterranean.
No strip
malls.


With a corrupt leftist government, profligate spending and
correspondingly painful taxes? No thanks. I'd prefer
something in the Caribbean anyhow. However, no matter the
new destination that would usually require learning a new
language. Not a problem for me but my wife wouldn't like that.


Where the voters demand kiddy paths to nowhere, the taxpayer
must be punished.


And my Brother-in-law, the paving contractor claps his hands with joy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #65  
Old April 1st 18, 02:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,409
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On 3/31/2018 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 07:28:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-30 16:56, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 07:19:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-30 02:04, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.


Now try that again when the rims are wet. With locking up I mean
instantly, tens of milliseconds.

A recent study demonstrated that an auditory stimulus takes 8 - 10 ms
to reach the brain, but on the other hand, a visual stimulus takes
20-40 ms. After the brain recognizes the event it must trigger the
muscles to react. Most texts seem to suggest that a good reaction time
is anywhere between 0.25 seconds and 0.35 seconds. Or 250 - 350
milliseconds. Your 10 millisecond reaction is much quicker then has
been tested in humans.... One can only assume that you are from
Krypton.


Ever heard of the term "muscle memory"?


Yup. and I am also aware of the old barroom game where you hold your
thumb and forefinger about an inch apart and a guy dangles a dollar
bill between them. the game is when he drops the bill you catch it
without moving your hand up or down, and you probably can't do it.

I've been playing the game for, probably, forty years and haven't come
across more then 10 or a dozen individuals in all those years who can
catch the bill.

As I said, one can only assume that you are from Krypton.


The dollar bill takes about 0.18 seconds to drop past one's fingers.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #66  
Old April 1st 18, 07:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 21:41:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/31/2018 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 07:28:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-30 16:56, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 07:19:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-30 02:04, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-29 14:34, Roger Merriman wrote:
sms wrote:
On 3/27/2018 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on the kind, is a messy business. On
mine particularly so because there is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc
brakes are fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy duty MTB riding.

Avoid hydraulic disc brakes at all costs. Stick to mechanical disc brakes.



Which require constant adjustments as the pads wear, have cables that
weather eats, etc.

All my bikes have disks the CX/gravel/adventure road? Is cable the others
are hydraulic.

The cable is a lot more fuss, the Hydros just work, once set up you feed
them pads which is very easy.

Personally as someone who rides off-road plus high (ish) miles commuting
disks and preferably Hydro are game changers in terms of performance and
maintenance.

In terms of stuff like power, there is quite a overlap between the two, my
gravel bikes cable disks is about as powerful as the old commute MTB with
its older and cheaper Hydro brakes, both are embarrassing weak compared to
my Full suspension MTB.


I recently upgrade to 8" rotors front and back. That was the real game
changer. I can lock up either wheel with one finger and brake response
is prontissimo. Now I no longer have to worry when riding a steep trail
with some cargo in the back.

But I can lock up either, or both, wheels with vee brakes. With one
finger unless I want to lock both wheels which takes two fingers :-)

And, I might add, no requirement for bleeding either.


Now try that again when the rims are wet. With locking up I mean
instantly, tens of milliseconds.

A recent study demonstrated that an auditory stimulus takes 8 - 10 ms
to reach the brain, but on the other hand, a visual stimulus takes
20-40 ms. After the brain recognizes the event it must trigger the
muscles to react. Most texts seem to suggest that a good reaction time
is anywhere between 0.25 seconds and 0.35 seconds. Or 250 - 350
milliseconds. Your 10 millisecond reaction is much quicker then has
been tested in humans.... One can only assume that you are from
Krypton.


Ever heard of the term "muscle memory"?


Yup. and I am also aware of the old barroom game where you hold your
thumb and forefinger about an inch apart and a guy dangles a dollar
bill between them. the game is when he drops the bill you catch it
without moving your hand up or down, and you probably can't do it.

I've been playing the game for, probably, forty years and haven't come
across more then 10 or a dozen individuals in all those years who can
catch the bill.

As I said, one can only assume that you are from Krypton.


The dollar bill takes about 0.18 seconds to drop past one's fingers.


Try it with a $20. It seems to fall faster :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #67  
Old April 1st 18, 07:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 289
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 8:55:00 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-31 08:23, wrote:
Op zaterdag 31 maart 2018 16:20:28 UTC+2 schreef Joerg:
On 2018-03-30 10:31,
wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 5:03:12 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM UTC+2,
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden fade
and that's scary. Then they require bleeding
which, depending on the kind, is a messy
business. On mine particularly so because there
is no bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes are
fine for pavement riding, just not for heavy
duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file that
is harder than tool steel, nails and rocks, I'm
sure you could build a front wheel for your MTB
using a motorcycle front hub, disc brake and
lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back I am
quite pleased with the brake performance of my MTB.
The bleeding is messy but only needs to be done
about once a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the rear
brake starts feeling soft. Braking is still fine and
most other riders just leave it like that but I like
the pressure point nice and hard. Also, the slightest
amount of air in the line near the caliper can cause a
brake failure on a long downhill which here in the
hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4 years now
and they feel like they did on day 1. Shimano must be
doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are no
mountain lions. Of course they work for you.


There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having to
ride through rivers. My MTB brake calipers regularly reach a
state where you can't even seem them anymore.

The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as well,
except they can't use the DOT4 fluid from the garage
cabinet.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud and dirt
you can image. And lots of steep short up and downhills. In
total I spent 3 months in California during my trips. Never had
a day of rain, some drizzle/fog in San Francisco...


Where do you take your CX bike? Eastern Belgium? Or to the Alps?


Just in my backyard, most of the time just across the German border.
Once in a while I make a clip of our ride. You can download (it is
save) a clip of a typical sunday morning winter ride here

https://we.tl/6awaXeHLBp


That's not a lot of dirt, just wee mud puddles on a meandering forest
path. Also, it's totally flat so you won't experience what I did when I
rode an MTB with rim brakes: Muddy trail like yours but downhill.
Reached in, nothing, only horrid sandpaper sounds, sharp turn with cliff
approaching fast. I almost needed a bathroom after that. This simply
does not happen with disc brakes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Not unusual:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/0KviHxMzDlHsok3H3


Right, and an attentive viewer will notice that the bike in your photo
link has disc brakes. Applying rim brakes under that condition will
cause a substantial delay until the brake force appears. In your video
it wouldn't matter because it's all flatlands and you won't encounter a
sharp turn with a cliff on the outside. Like this are 0:51min, 1:13min,
1:29min, 1:35min and so on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1USLVraV4mU

It's one of my regular routes. I would not want to ride that in the rain
with a rim brake bike, it would be no fun.

Mud will also eat rims. At least out here where there is lots of sand
mixed in such mud. When my old MTB had around 1000mi on it there were
already deep grooves in the rims. By that time I had made the decision
that this isn't going to work and bought a proper MTB with disc brakes
and all. I still have the old one but it is now my "commute mule" to
take along in the SUV on business trips. Most of those are to the
flatlands and there the bike is fine.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I think no one is arguing that in that kind of situation hydraulic disk brakes are the better choice. That doesn't mean that you die if you use rimbrakes. You have just be aware of the limitations and behavior of your brakes. That is part of your riders skills. If rider skills are not a factor than everone rides a full suspension bike. I prefer a cross bike just because of the riders skill needed to get around off road. I admire the pro cross riders (man and women) more than the dumb downhillers. YMMV.

Lou
  #69  
Old April 1st 18, 03:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On 2018-03-31 23:44, wrote:
On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 8:55:00 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-31 08:23,
wrote:
Op zaterdag 31 maart 2018 16:20:28 UTC+2 schreef Joerg:
On 2018-03-30 10:31,
wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 5:03:12 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-30 07:08, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 11:09:37 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 1:41:51 AM UTC+2, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-03-29 14:32, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2018 4:19 PM,
wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 9:47:20 PM UTC+2,
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-29 12:25,

wrote:
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 4:09:07 PM
UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-28 20:28, James wrote:
On 28/03/18 01:39, Joerg wrote:


Hydraulics also can suffer from sudden
fade and that's scary. Then they
require bleeding which, depending on
the kind, is a messy business. On mine
particularly so because there is no
bleed kit for them. Cable disc brakes
are fine for pavement riding, just not
for heavy duty MTB riding.


With the use of a few hose clamps, a file
that is harder than tool steel, nails and
rocks, I'm sure you could build a front
wheel for your MTB using a motorcycle
front hub, disc brake and lever.


After upgrading to 8" rotors front and back
I am quite pleased with the brake
performance of my MTB. The bleeding is
messy but only needs to be done about once
a year and takes 1/2h.



Once a year? Why?


Because after about a year the lever for the
rear brake starts feeling soft. Braking is
still fine and most other riders just leave it
like that but I like the pressure point nice
and hard. Also, the slightest amount of air in
the line near the caliper can cause a brake
failure on a long downhill which here in the
hills is not cool.


Never bleed my brakes on my cross bike for 4
years now and they feel like they did on day 1.
Shimano must be doing something right.

Says the guy riding in Nederlands where there are
no mountain lions. Of course they work for you.


There are also no hills and dirt and stuff, or having
to ride through rivers. My MTB brake calipers
regularly reach a state where you can't even seem
them anymore.

The guys using Shimano out here need to bleed them as
well, except they can't use the DOT4 fluid from the
garage cabinet.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

As I said they are on my crossbike which see more mud
and dirt you can image. And lots of steep short up and
downhills. In total I spent 3 months in California
during my trips. Never had a day of rain, some
drizzle/fog in San Francisco...


Where do you take your CX bike? Eastern Belgium? Or to the
Alps?


Just in my backyard, most of the time just across the German
border. Once in a while I make a clip of our ride. You can
download (it is save) a clip of a typical sunday morning
winter ride here

https://we.tl/6awaXeHLBp


That's not a lot of dirt, just wee mud puddles on a meandering
forest path. Also, it's totally flat so you won't experience
what I did when I rode an MTB with rim brakes: Muddy trail like
yours but downhill. Reached in, nothing, only horrid sandpaper
sounds, sharp turn with cliff approaching fast. I almost needed
a bathroom after that. This simply does not happen with disc
brakes.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Not unusual:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/0KviHxMzDlHsok3H3


Right, and an attentive viewer will notice that the bike in your
photo link has disc brakes. Applying rim brakes under that
condition will cause a substantial delay until the brake force
appears. In your video it wouldn't matter because it's all
flatlands and you won't encounter a sharp turn with a cliff on the
outside. Like this are 0:51min, 1:13min, 1:29min, 1:35min and so
on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1USLVraV4mU

It's one of my regular routes. I would not want to ride that in the
rain with a rim brake bike, it would be no fun.

Mud will also eat rims. At least out here where there is lots of
sand mixed in such mud. When my old MTB had around 1000mi on it
there were already deep grooves in the rims. By that time I had
made the decision that this isn't going to work and bought a proper
MTB with disc brakes and all. I still have the old one but it is
now my "commute mule" to take along in the SUV on business trips.
Most of those are to the flatlands and there the bike is fine.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I think no one is arguing that in that kind of situation hydraulic
disk brakes are the better choice. That doesn't mean that you die if
you use rimbrakes.



You could get in trouble, for example, if an unforseen situation comes
up. Like that logging truck driver not seeing you. In my case it was a
buck that didn't pay attention and cut diagonally across the singletrack
without looking at me. With rim brakes we'd have collided. Couldn't
believe it. He just kept running and running, without looking back even
once.


You have just be aware of the limitations and
behavior of your brakes. That is part of your riders skills. If rider
skills are not a factor than everone rides a full suspension bike. I
prefer a cross bike just because of the riders skill needed to get
around off road. I admire the pro cross riders (man and women) more
than the dumb downhillers. YMMV.


If you ride by yourself that's fine. However, you won't be able to keep
up with a team when the weather is bad and you are the only one with rim
brakes. Inferior equipment is no fun. Why go offroad with inadequate
brakes when you can buy better systems for not much money?

We could go back to the days when cars only had brakes on the two rear
wheels. Would anynone want to?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #70  
Old April 1st 18, 03:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,607
Default MTB disc brake caused wild fire

On 2018-03-31 23:18, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 21:41:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/31/2018 7:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 07:28:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


[...]



Ever heard of the term "muscle memory"?

Yup. and I am also aware of the old barroom game where you hold your
thumb and forefinger about an inch apart and a guy dangles a dollar
bill between them. the game is when he drops the bill you catch it
without moving your hand up or down, and you probably can't do it.

I've been playing the game for, probably, forty years and haven't come
across more then 10 or a dozen individuals in all those years who can
catch the bill.


Out here in the Wild West it used to be that if the muscle memory in
your index finger wasn't fast enough your life time was generally
shorter. Unless you avoided gun fights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5WjkI5FuP0


As I said, one can only assume that you are from Krypton.



Sometimes others seem to think that as well. This year I brought my tax
stuff to the CPA via road bike which they said is highly unusual. A few
years ago I came via singletrack on the MTB, shook off some mud and made
sure the bottoms of my shoes were clean enough not to dirty their lobby
carpet. The receptionist asked with wide eyes "You came from WHERE?"


The dollar bill takes about 0.18 seconds to drop past one's fingers.


Try it with a $20. It seems to fall faster :-)


Not anymore, inflation ate some of that. Try it with a 20 Baht bill,
then you should be able to catch it :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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