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14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...



 
 
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  #71  
Old May 10th 17, 04:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Tue, 9 May 2017 14:37:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:03:22 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 11:52, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-09 06:23,
wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did
something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX
headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the
others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which
"fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long
time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around
to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top
nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it?
ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used
without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that
he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust
and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the
bearings would be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added
a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually
tightened against the bearing race and have had no more
problems in the last couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost
impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long.
Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will bend just
enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause
it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve
your problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing
this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as
it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that
include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where
I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the
more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the
Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only
did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have
problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who ventured
out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless of whether
they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads over there were
often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie (French-speaking
area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs
and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel
carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready to
brew.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Do you have the required star wrench to tighten it properly?



No but a large adjustable wrench fits. It scuffs the scallops of the nut
a little but I do not care about such aesthetics.


... Do you
also have the stock spacer between the race and the lockbolt?


Yup.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


GOOD GRIEF! Do you use a SECOND wrench to hold the upper bearing cup as you tighten the top lock nut? As Andrew said, you CAN tighten thosewith REGULAR headset wrenches.

Gads! To think that someone uses a large adjustavble wrench on a nice headset likethat. it's obvious you don't care aboutthe appearance or the proper use of your equipment. No wonder you have such problems with things breaking.

Cheers


Actually I prefer water pump pliers, so much more adaptable :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #72  
Old May 10th 17, 04:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did something
that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others
eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it
for them. I keep technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to
it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut
and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow,
lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's
problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE
who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would
be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a
washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened
against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last
couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.


I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible
to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it
will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear
to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your
problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this
and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed
to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths
or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more
serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but
close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in
Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset.
Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come
loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other
frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the
Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and
the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating
right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew.


I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you are
riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting force is
up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the weight of the
bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up, against the lower
bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race and lock nut. Then
after one rebounds from the rock and the bike falls back to earth,
with a resounding crash, the force is still taken by the bottom
bearing resisting the mass of the bike and rider. Still no force at
all against the upper bearing and lock nut.

So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much
beer while working on the bike? Black Magic?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #73  
Old May 10th 17, 06:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Tue, 09 May 2017 15:36:02 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 09 May 2017 15:05:56 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snipped

Actually the 265's were the big deal. When they first appeared a
fellow installed a bog standard 265 in a gas fuel, non blown, dragster
chassis and brought it out to the strip. He whipped every V-8 Ford
that would run against him. The next month there were more Chevy
engines and it wasn't long before the Ford flat head was a museum
item.

I suspect that the very first 283's were probably some of the 265 boys
that owned a boring bar :-)

If it overheated a lot, it was likely a bored 265. The 283 block was
modified to allow the larger bore without making the cyl walls too
thin. (different sand cores were designed for the castings)


Yes, certainly.

But when you are only running a quarter of a mile over heating isn't
quite as important ;-) In fact there was a guy, in L.A. I believe,
that started making solid aluminum "Hemi's" for the "AA fuelers", now
called Top Fuel, I believe, which apparently is still the practice
today.

In the early days the guys running the bored out 365's used to argue
that the block was lighter :-) But it was noticeable that they all
went to the 283 blocks as soon as then accumulated a bit of spare
cash. Then, of course there were those that stroked the 283's :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #74  
Old May 10th 17, 03:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:19:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did something
that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others
eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it
for them. I keep technical things for a long time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to
it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut
and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow,
lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's
problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE
who rides a road bike on trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and
tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would
be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was
bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a
washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened
against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last
couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible
to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it
will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear
to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your
problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this
and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed
to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths
or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more
serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but
close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in
Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset.
Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come
loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other
frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the
Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often
as I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and
the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating
right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew.


I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you are
riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting force is
up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the weight of the
bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up, against the lower
bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race and lock nut. Then
after one rebounds from the rock and the bike falls back to earth,
with a resounding crash, the force is still taken by the bottom
bearing resisting the mass of the bike and rider. Still no force at
all against the upper bearing and lock nut.

So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much
beer while working on the bike? Black Magic?


A headset can loosen due to vibration, but that typically means the lock nut is not tight enough. One could use a more robust threaded headset or a Gorilla Headlock or something like it. The hose-clamp thing is just too trailer park.

Joerg could fix all of his headset problems with a properly adjusted $20 headset -- but what fun would that be? It's far more fun to beat it with a rock in the middle of nowhere when it falls apart.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #75  
Old May 10th 17, 03:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On 2017-05-10 07:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:19:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did
something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX
headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the
others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which
"fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long
time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get
around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset
top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on
it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were
used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to
think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on
trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust
and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the
bearings would be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it
was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I
added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually
tightened against the bearing race and have had no more
problems in the last couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost
impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too
long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will
bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure
will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't
solve your problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin
causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push
down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for
rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost
inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the
more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the
Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only
did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have
problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who
ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless
of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads
over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie
(French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as
I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their
pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian
Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready
to brew.


I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you
are riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting
force is up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the
weight of the bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up,
against the lower bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race
and lock nut. Then after one rebounds from the rock and the bike
falls back to earth, with a resounding crash, the force is still
taken by the bottom bearing resisting the mass of the bike and
rider. Still no force at all against the upper bearing and lock
nut.

So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much
beer while working on the bike? Black Magic?


A headset can loosen due to vibration, but that typically means the
lock nut is not tight enough. One could use a more robust threaded
headset or a Gorilla Headlock or something like it. The hose-clamp
thing is just too trailer park.


One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


Joerg could fix all of his headset problems with a properly adjusted
$20 headset -- but what fun would that be? It's far more fun to beat
it with a rock in the middle of nowhere when it falls apart.


It's much more fun to fix it with a $0.50 hose clamp and spend the other
$19.50 at a brewpub :-)

Some day I will replace the headset but on the priority scale of
projects that ranks somewhere between #50 and #100. Because the hose
clamp has completely eliminated the need to tighten the headset after
every other ride (the ones with the gnarly sections).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #76  
Old May 10th 17, 03:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:43:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 May 2017 15:36:02 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 09 May 2017 15:05:56 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snipped

Actually the 265's were the big deal. When they first appeared a
fellow installed a bog standard 265 in a gas fuel, non blown, dragster
chassis and brought it out to the strip. He whipped every V-8 Ford
that would run against him. The next month there were more Chevy
engines and it wasn't long before the Ford flat head was a museum
item.

I suspect that the very first 283's were probably some of the 265 boys
that owned a boring bar :-)

If it overheated a lot, it was likely a bored 265. The 283 block was
modified to allow the larger bore without making the cyl walls too
thin. (different sand cores were designed for the castings)


Yes, certainly.

But when you are only running a quarter of a mile over heating isn't
quite as important ;-) In fact there was a guy, in L.A. I believe,
that started making solid aluminum "Hemi's" for the "AA fuelers", now
called Top Fuel, I believe, which apparently is still the practice
today.

In the early days the guys running the bored out 365's used to argue
that the block was lighter :-) But it was noticeable that they all
went to the 283 blocks as soon as then accumulated a bit of spare
cash. Then, of course there were those that stroked the 283's :-)

And those thatb destroked the 327's - Like the General himself for
the Z28 Camaro 302!!
  #77  
Old May 10th 17, 08:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:28:21 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-10 07:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:19:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]

At some point in time either you or a shop did
something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX
headset.


I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the
others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which
"fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long
time.

Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get
around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset.

I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset
top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on
it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were
used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to
think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on
trails.

Cheers

Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust
and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the
bearings would be loose.

A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of
bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it
was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I
added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually
tightened against the bearing race and have had no more
problems in the last couple of years :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost
impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too
long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will
bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure
will cause it to loosen up.

Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't
solve your problem.


I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin
causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push
down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for
rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost
inevitable where I live.

As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the
more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the
Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only
did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have
problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who
ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless
of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads
over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie
(French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as
I do.

Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their
pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian
Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready
to brew.

I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you
are riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting
force is up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the
weight of the bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up,
against the lower bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race
and lock nut. Then after one rebounds from the rock and the bike
falls back to earth, with a resounding crash, the force is still
taken by the bottom bearing resisting the mass of the bike and
rider. Still no force at all against the upper bearing and lock
nut.

So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much
beer while working on the bike? Black Magic?


A headset can loosen due to vibration, but that typically means the
lock nut is not tight enough. One could use a more robust threaded
headset or a Gorilla Headlock or something like it. The hose-clamp
thing is just too trailer park.


One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.

Snipped

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

More utter nonsense Joerg! I have toured on many very rough back roads including fire/logging/mining roadsthat were dirt and stone and rocks and I've NEVER had a headset come loose. Nor have I ever had a headset on my MTB come loose. Why's that you ask? It's because I properly adjust mine before they fail.

Sheesh!

Cheers
  #78  
Old May 11th 17, 12:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default 14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...

On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:



One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just
about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into
the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection.
That did the trick but does not work for a headset.


One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the
stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might
otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding
parts.

Joerg could fix all of his headset problems with a properly adjusted
$20 headset -- but what fun would that be? It's far more fun to beat
it with a rock in the middle of nowhere when it falls apart.


It's much more fun to fix it with a $0.50 hose clamp and spend the other
$19.50 at a brewpub :-)

Some day I will replace the headset but on the priority scale of
projects that ranks somewhere between #50 and #100. Because the hose
clamp has completely eliminated the need to tighten the headset after
every other ride (the ones with the gnarly sections).


 




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