#11
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Dry lube?
On 4/26/2018 4:03 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Frank Krygowski, 2018-04-25 17:43+0200: On 4/25/2018 4:54 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: One other thing, I have seen suggestions of lubricating only the chain, and not the sprockets and derailleur. However, I think the derailleur sprockets still need some lubrication to roll with few friction, do they not? No. The friction between the chain's rollers and the sprocket teeth is negligible. And if you add any lubricant to those surfaces, the lubricant will soon be filled with abrasive grime. That will accelerate wear and probably increase the friction. I was more thinking about the friction between the derailleur sprockets and their axles, actually. Indeed those squeak when run dry and the steel ones show bright red oxide from heat. Yes, do lubricate them, which for most models means slacking the bolt to get your lubricant inside. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#12
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Dry lube?
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/26/2018 4:03 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: Frank Krygowski, 2018-04-25 17:43+0200: On 4/25/2018 4:54 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: One other thing, I have seen suggestions of lubricating only the chain, and not the sprockets and derailleur. However, I think the derailleur sprockets still need some lubrication to roll with few friction, do they not? No. The friction between the chain's rollers and the sprocket teeth is negligible. And if you add any lubricant to those surfaces, the lubricant will soon be filled with abrasive grime. That will accelerate wear and probably increase the friction. I was more thinking about the friction between the derailleur sprockets and their axles, actually. Indeed those squeak when run dry and the steel ones show bright red oxide from heat. Yes, do lubricate them, which for most models means slacking the bolt to get your lubricant inside. But Tanguy has so little time! When damaged more than the rest of the deraileur has aged, just get cheap sealed bearing jockey wheels, fit and "forget" https://tacx.com/fr/products/galets-de-derailleurs/ |
#13
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Dry lube?
Sepp Ruf, 2018-04-26 16:36+0200:
But Tanguy has so little time! When damaged more than the rest of the deraileur has aged, just get cheap sealed bearing jockey wheels, fit and "forget" https://tacx.com/fr/products/galets-de-derailleurs/ I will indeed buy new derailleur wheels when they are used, but I do not think they are right now, so lubricating them is the way to go. -- Tanguy |
#14
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Dry lube?
On 4/26/2018 9:36 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
AMuzi wrote: On 4/26/2018 4:03 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: Frank Krygowski, 2018-04-25 17:43+0200: On 4/25/2018 4:54 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: One other thing, I have seen suggestions of lubricating only the chain, and not the sprockets and derailleur. However, I think the derailleur sprockets still need some lubrication to roll with few friction, do they not? No. The friction between the chain's rollers and the sprocket teeth is negligible. And if you add any lubricant to those surfaces, the lubricant will soon be filled with abrasive grime. That will accelerate wear and probably increase the friction. I was more thinking about the friction between the derailleur sprockets and their axles, actually. Indeed those squeak when run dry and the steel ones show bright red oxide from heat. Yes, do lubricate them, which for most models means slacking the bolt to get your lubricant inside. But Tanguy has so little time! When damaged more than the rest of the deraileur has aged, just get cheap sealed bearing jockey wheels, fit and "forget" https://tacx.com/fr/products/galets-de-derailleurs/ We like those - great product and well priced too. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#15
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Dry lube?
On 4/26/2018 4:46 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
James, 2018-04-26 01:55+0200: Like Frank said, wax alone allows and the chain will squeak sooner rather than later. I use much more oil than Frank though, about 50/50 candle wax and EP gear oil. Paraffin oil is also apparently quite good. Thank you for the advice! My mixture cost me sweet F.A., and lasts at least 1000km between applications including some wet rides. Heat the mix in an old cooking pot until it is liquid and immerse the chain. Use a Connex quick link for convenience. So, to sum up, I can get some paraffin wax, put it in a pot with some oil (paraffin or motor oil), heat it until it melts, stir to make an homogeneous mix, and immerse my previously cleaned chain in it. All right? The mixture will solidify again so I can then remove it from the pot and store it in some jar. It's the best of three worlds. 1/ Long chain life. 2/ Low maintenance. 3/ Low cost. Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot for such a mechanic work. :-D The other common advice with this method: Don't heat the wax-oil mix indoors over an open flame. Supposedly the vapors are flammable and any resulting fire can be fierce and difficult to extinguish. So your gas kitchen stove is out. Some people say it's OK if you use that stove but have the wax in a double boiler, to keep the temperature down to 100C. I've heated a pot of wax outdoors, single pot (not double boiler) over a camping stove and had no fire. But I'd be very cautious with a gas kitchen stove. I think some people have used a microwave oven to melt the wax, but I'm not sure. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#16
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Dry lube?
Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Dear cyclists, After years using wet lubes in all conditions (currently, a specific chain oil with PTFE from 3in1 http://www.3-en-un.fr/produit/lubrifiant-chaines-et-cables-250ml/), and being used to seing my chain getting very dirty, I have just learnt that I may avoid this by using dry lube instead. Actually, I have heard of one specific product, the Squirt dry lube http://www.squirtlube.com/our-products/. It is about twice more expensive than the lubricant I am currently using, but it is supposed to reduce cleaning work, and if it does make the chain cleaner, it may as well reduce its wear and extend its life. So, have any of you tried that lubricant, or any other dry one? Would you recommend it rather than wet lubes? My most important usage is a daily commuting through suburb streets and forest paths (in all weather conditions, therfore quite muddy when it rains, but now that summer is coming, it is going to be rather dry). Depends on use case, for the commute bike, dry lube which resists gumming up, which if your doing 400+ commuting miles per month is handy, for the MTB/Gravel bike much more likely to use a wet lube as it’s much more likely to be bog snorkelling in them! And I clean them after every ride or close enough. Roger Merriman |
#17
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Dry lube?
On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:50:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/26/2018 4:46 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote: James, 2018-04-26 01:55+0200: Like Frank said, wax alone allows and the chain will squeak sooner rather than later. I use much more oil than Frank though, about 50/50 candle wax and EP gear oil. Paraffin oil is also apparently quite good. Thank you for the advice! My mixture cost me sweet F.A., and lasts at least 1000km between applications including some wet rides. Heat the mix in an old cooking pot until it is liquid and immerse the chain. Use a Connex quick link for convenience. So, to sum up, I can get some paraffin wax, put it in a pot with some oil (paraffin or motor oil), heat it until it melts, stir to make an homogeneous mix, and immerse my previously cleaned chain in it. All right? The mixture will solidify again so I can then remove it from the pot and store it in some jar. It's the best of three worlds. 1/ Long chain life. 2/ Low maintenance. 3/ Low cost. Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot for such a mechanic work. :-D The other common advice with this method: Don't heat the wax-oil mix indoors over an open flame. Supposedly the vapors are flammable and any resulting fire can be fierce and difficult to extinguish. So your gas kitchen stove is out. Some people say it's OK if you use that stove but have the wax in a double boiler, to keep the temperature down to 100C. I've heated a pot of wax outdoors, single pot (not double boiler) over a camping stove and had no fire. But I'd be very cautious with a gas kitchen stove. I think some people have used a microwave oven to melt the wax, but I'm not sure. I would be a bit apprehensive about heating any hydrocarbon over an open flame.... after all their most important property is that they burn. I've recently been using an electric cooking pot, from the shape perhaps a "Wok", that I believe cost me about $10.00 and it even has a thermostat. -- Cheers, John B. |
#18
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Dry lube?
On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:46:02 -0000 (UTC), Tanguy Ortolo
wrote: Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot for such a mechanic work. :-D Once used for lubricating oil, a pot can never be food-safe again[1]. Buy a small pot at Goodwill, and store your wax in it. If the lid has a knob, you can attach it to the pot with rubber bands. (Assuming that there are two protrusions on the pot.) Since the stuff can't spill once cool, you could buy a lidless pot and store it in a plastic bag to keep the dust out. Don't forget that the wax must be melted over or in hot water, never directly over fire or a stove coil. As someone who used to cater house fires, I can tell you that when oil or wax gets too hot, Really Nasty things happen. (NEVER throw a skillet of blazing bacon into a sink filled with water.) ========== [1] Well, it can, but it has to be an expensive pot to be worth the trouble. We used tin cans as disposable pans for melting paraffin when I was a child, and paraffin *is* food safe. But very, very hard to get out of a pot. (I've forgotten what children were doing with molten paraffin, but Mom made very sure I didn't forget how to melt it.) -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ |
#19
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Dry lube?
On 26/04/18 18:46, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
James, 2018-04-26 01:55+0200: Like Frank said, wax alone allows and the chain will squeak sooner rather than later. I use much more oil than Frank though, about 50/50 candle wax and EP gear oil. Paraffin oil is also apparently quite good. Thank you for the advice! My mixture cost me sweet F.A., and lasts at least 1000km between applications including some wet rides. Heat the mix in an old cooking pot until it is liquid and immerse the chain. Use a Connex quick link for convenience. So, to sum up, I can get some paraffin wax, put it in a pot with some oil (paraffin or motor oil), heat it until it melts, stir to make an homogeneous mix, and immerse my previously cleaned chain in it. All right? I used 80/90 EP gear oil. I don't know the effect of motor oil, but otherwise yes. My wife had no use for a large candle. The wax cost me nothing, and is scented ;-) The mixture will solidify again so I can then remove it from the pot and store it in some jar. I just leave mine in the pot ready for next time. Put a lid on it so it doesn't fill with dust and so on. It's the best of three worlds. 1/ Long chain life. 2/ Low maintenance. 3/ Low cost. Great, I have to try this! With some adaptation to enhance the wife acceptance factor, because I expect some trouble if I use a kitchen pot for such a mechanic work. :-D A second hand store / opportunity shop would be a place to find a cheap cooking pot. People say heating wax & oil over a flame is dangerous, but I've not had any bad experiences. Just be careful and be aware the wax solution will likely burn you while it is hot. Handle the chain with pliers or put a piece of wire through a link so you can dip it in, leave it for a couple of minutes, and lift it out. Wipe off any excess that doesn't drip off. -- JS |
#20
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Dry lube?
On 27/04/18 01:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
The other common advice with this method: Don't heat the wax-oil mix indoors over an open flame. Supposedly the vapors are flammable and any resulting fire can be fierce and difficult to extinguish. So your gas kitchen stove is out. I've used an indoor gas stove and now an outdoor gas BBQ. I'm waiting for a fire. Not to say it can't happen, but it might be more likely if the mix is spilled. Care is necessary. -- JS |
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