cyclist shoots motorist

"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Later on, the same article says "According to police, Urick told
them he reacted as he did because Nicoletti told him to get off
the road."

So which is it? Sounds like the motorist could have easily
threatened the cyclist with bodily harm first -- but of course
it's only a crime if you do it with a gun, and not with a car.

(Or maybe the cyclist just went nuts for no reason -- I wasn't
there.)

Steve
--
Steven O'Neill

Everything else aside...

If you lawfully carry a gun and with today's laws, you're really only
allowed to shoot (in many states even display) your gun if:

1. The person has clearly demonstrated intent to harm you. This can be
verbal such as... " I intend to kill you or do you serious bodily harm."
The driver just may have done this.

2. The person is in a position to do you harm. We're talking location here.
If he's 100 yards away and has a knife, you better not shoot. The driver
was just sitting in his car.

3. The person has the capability to harm you. Weapon, size, etc. The
article makes no mention of any weapon. No, I not stupid. The car could be
a weapon, but not if it's pulled over to the side of the road.

Let's go to the tape to see how this would work. You have grandma in a
wheelchair ten feet away. She has a knife.

Situation 1. Grandma yells, "You have disappointed me for the last time! I'm
going to kill you!" She raises the knife to plunge it into you chest and
pushes the "GO" button on her motorized wheelchair, but the battery is dead
and the chair doesn't move. Do you shoot? NO! #2 from the above is
missing.

Situation 2. Grandma yells, "You have disappointed me for the last time! I'm
going to kill you!" She pushes "Go" on her wheelchair and when she's in
range, she begins to pummel you with her osteoporosis bones under her
vellum-like skin. Do you shoot? NO! #3 from the above is missing.

Situation 3. Grandma pushes "Go" on her wheelchair, comes toward you with a
knife raised. Do you shoot? NO! #1 from above is missing. She was just
going to cut the tag off of that new shirt she just gave you.

If you pull out your gun (much less discharge it) and any of the above three
conditions are missing, you better send out invitations because your about
to become a prison bride to a large, hairy man named "Tiny." Is that the
way things should be? Ask the politicians. Should it be your responsiblity
to know these things if you choose to carry a gun? Damn right!


"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Later on, the same article says "According to police, Urick told
them he reacted as he did because Nicoletti told him to get off
the road."

So which is it? Sounds like the motorist could have easily
threatened the cyclist with bodily harm first -- but of course
it's only a crime if you do it with a gun, and not with a car.

(Or maybe the cyclist just went nuts for no reason -- I wasn't
there.)

Steve
--
Steven O'Neill

(Steven M. O'Neill) wrote in message ...
"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html


There was a rather long discussion about this at Fark.com today

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comm...?IDLink=826542

A lot of the Fark people seem to listen to Clear Channel.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:12:19 +0000 (UTC), (Steven M. O'Neill)
wrote:

"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Here's a video link:

http://kdkaimg.dayport.com/htm/kdka2...tm?Art_ID=2032

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:12:19 +0000 (UTC), (Steven M.
O'Neill) wrote:

"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Yeah, sure it did.

Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:12:19 +0000 (UTC),
, (Steven M. O'Neill)
wrote:

(Or maybe the cyclist just went nuts for no reason -- I wasn't
there.)

He blew it by not shooting out the tires first.
--
zk

I still say Glock ought to make handlebar mounts.

So is Weaver the best stance during a track stand?

"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Later on, the same article says "According to police, Urick told
them he reacted as he did because Nicoletti told him to get off
the road."

So which is it? Sounds like the motorist could have easily
threatened the cyclist with bodily harm first -- but of course
it's only a crime if you do it with a gun, and not with a car.

(Or maybe the cyclist just went nuts for no reason -- I wasn't
there.)

Steve
--
Steven O'Neill

(Steven M. O'Neill) wrote in message ...
"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Later on, the same article says "According to police, Urick told
them he reacted as he did because Nicoletti told him to get off
the road."

So which is it? Sounds like the motorist could have easily
threatened the cyclist with bodily harm first -- but of course
it's only a crime if you do it with a gun, and not with a car.

I am a Florida CC holder and under our state laws, the stituations
where you can fire a gun, at some one are rightly very narrow!

The only time, you can legally do so, is to stop yourself or others
from being kill or gravely injured, where you or others can not safety
retreat from the situation.

If someone try to used a car to kill you but you are not in danger of
harm at the moment you can not fire a gun! IE if a car run you off
the road you are not free to pull your gun out and open fire. Now if
he then turn the car in your direction afterward and you have no way
of getting out of harm way, then and only then can you fire at him or
her. If you can however jump behind a barrier, you are once more not
free to fire a gun!

A person can try to murder you or your family and you can still end up
behind bars yourself, if you used a gun on him, except under very
narrow conditions.

Oh there are some ongoing crimes, that you are allow to used a gun to
stop, such as rape or car jacking. The crimes have to be happening at
the moment you fire the gun, if he is running from the crime scene,
you can not legally fire to stop him.

Of course under some situations you might be legally wrong and the
state will not charge you, but you are taking a large chance.

Bill Meredith









(Or maybe the cyclist just went nuts for no reason -- I wasn't
there.)

Steve

"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html
snip

All the facts have yet to come out but from what I've heard so far the guy
riding the bike, Robert Urick, was riding a bike because he had his drivers
license revoked, and is being charged with illegal possession of a firearm.
Sounds like a real winner to me.

As a life member of the N.R.A., I hope this guy rots just for having an
illegal handgun. Gun control would work great if they started with the bad
guys *sigh*.

Riding a bike, and being a looser are not mutually exclusive.

C.Q.C.

In article ,
says...
(Steven M. O'Neill) wrote in message ...
"Bicyclist charged with shooting at driver"
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...04-243243.html

The article states "A bicyclist shot a motorist in the arm
during an altercation that began when the man on the bike made
an obscene gesture, police said."

Later on, the same article says "According to police, Urick told
them he reacted as he did because Nicoletti told him to get off
the road."

So which is it? Sounds like the motorist could have easily
threatened the cyclist with bodily harm first -- but of course
it's only a crime if you do it with a gun, and not with a car.

I am a Florida CC holder and under our state laws, the stituations
where you can fire a gun, at some one are rightly very narrow!

The only time, you can legally do so, is to stop yourself or others
from being kill or gravely injured, where you or others can not safety
retreat from the situation.

If someone try to used a car to kill you but you are not in danger of
harm at the moment you can not fire a gun! IE if a car run you off
the road you are not free to pull your gun out and open fire. Now if
he then turn the car in your direction afterward and you have no way
of getting out of harm way, then and only then can you fire at him or
her. If you can however jump behind a barrier, you are once more not
free to fire a gun!

A person can try to murder you or your family and you can still end up
behind bars yourself, if you used a gun on him, except under very
narrow conditions.

Oh there are some ongoing crimes, that you are allow to used a gun to
stop, such as rape or car jacking. The crimes have to be happening at
the moment you fire the gun, if he is running from the crime scene,
you can not legally fire to stop him.

Of course under some situations you might be legally wrong and the
state will not charge you, but you are taking a large chance.

In some states, they also add the proviso that if someone has broken
into your house while you are home, they are presumed to be intending
to harm you, and you can legally shoot them. But you better not get
them in the back. Other states are more like FL, where there has to
be an imminent threat.

.....

--
Dave Kerber
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