To pass, or not to pass...

Kathleen wrote in message ...


...That is the question.

I say pass em and let em eat your dust. I've ridden with guys like
that who would rather cough up a lung and die than let a woman pass.
They're idiots. I was passed by a string of females on a climb in a
race once, and just had to shrug my shoulders, admit they were
younger, stronger, better looking for sure, and maybe even better
gasp!. And it's not like I was competing with them for a spot on
the podium. ha. What's the big deal, guys?

On our recent AMB epic, since I was predominantly "the volunteer
sweeper" and I kept it in the middle ring, I often had to stop and let
the slower riders work their way, (or walk their way) through the
tough spots, and then I could remount and ride at my own pace to catch
up, and start the cycle (no pun intended) all over again.

Kinda like your stop, drink, smell the roses, let the jerks get a
substantial lead, type of strategy.

In your case, it is funny when complete strangers give you that kind
of control over them, isn't it?

Paladin


Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of
them. Not especially fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to
talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a bit slower than I
wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to
speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd
manage to keep it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back
off again.
Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset that I see
fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old
woman is tantamount to finding yourself in calculus class in your
underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in other words, your
worst nightmare).
If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never mind that
that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll
usually pull to the side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the
scenery, and let them get far enough ahead that I can ride my pace, they
can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues.
This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as
an experiment. How well could I control the pace of two complete
strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at all?
Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I
could force them up to 15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as
I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping and gulping. I kept it
up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any
time, simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and
antisocial rider, for the most part), when I have even the slightest
suspicion that somebody is toying with me.
But not these guys. Did they have any idea that they were being
deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally turned off onto a side
trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked
again, and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every
evidence of relief, pulled over and stopped.

Kathleen
Playin' border collie on the trail...

"Kathleen" wrote in message
...
spademan o---[) * wrote:


Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being
passed
by anyone young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple of
macho idiots but you dealt with them well.

I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious
intent, and I'm not at all sure how aware these guys were of what they
were doing, let alone what *I* was doing. When they'd look back, were
they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it more a
case of being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential
dread? Maybe neither, maybe both, who knows?
The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you play a game
you don't want to play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but
it's more fun when you make it a choice, instead of just getting sucked
into it. If it's fun for you to make a race of it out on the trail, go
for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point to getting rattled
about it.

Kathleen


Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed by
women. We have several local female World Cup competitors who occasionally
blow by me on the trails. There's no choice in the matter for me. It's like
"Hey, that was insert famous rider name here" and before I can be sure
she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of the
local scene.

Matt

Kathleen wrote:
Craig Brossman wrote:

snip


I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to
defend.
It is just the nature of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the
situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like it did. Bear in
mind, I
am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a
lot of
control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)


It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to
it at any point simply by stopping. Maybe it was a little...
cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what they'd do. But they
had the same options I did.

Kathleen

Served 'em right if you ask me. If they're clueless about trail
etiquette, they need to learn the hard way if necessary. If they're too
macho to let themselves get passed by a girl, they need to bring what
they've got. It would've been funny if you ended up herding them into
the ground.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:03:02 -0600, MattB wrote:

"Kathleen" wrote in message
...
spademan o---[) * wrote:


Excellent idea Kathleen. Personally I don't have a problem with being
passed
by anyone young/old/male/female, sounds like these guys were a couple
of
macho idiots but you dealt with them well.

I don't know if macho is the right word. It sort of implies conscious
intent, and I'm not at all sure how aware these guys were of what they
were doing, let alone what *I* was doing. When they'd look back, were
they thinking, "Ah'm not lettin' no b*tch pass me!", or was it more a
case of being seized by some sort of vague, bone-deep, existential
dread? Maybe neither, maybe both, who knows?
The thing I try to remember is that nobody can *make* you play a game
you don't want to play. There's nothing wrong with playing along, but
it's more fun when you make it a choice, instead of just getting sucked
into it. If it's fun for you to make a race of it out on the trail, go
for it. I can either join in, or opt out. No point to getting rattled
about it.

Kathleen


Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed
by
women. We have several local female World Cup competitors who
occasionally
blow by me on the trails. There's no choice in the matter for me. It's
like
"Hey, that was insert famous rider name here" and before I can be sure
she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of
the
local scene.

Matt




You're lucky -- I've yet to see a female rider on the trails I ride, let
alone one that's famous. Perhaps they thought that you didn't want to
pass. Who knows? Personally, I let people pass all the time. I would've
stopped to let Kathleen pass, as I like to go my own pace. If her pace is
faster than mine, I'd stop. If it's slower (which would be unlikely), I'd
probably pass. Last weekend, I met someone, and then we met a group of
riders. Since the group knew the trail back, and we didn't, we followed
them. For my style of riding, they stopped too much. I like to stop once -
- when I'm done. These guys stopped all the time, although sometimes they
stopped to take some drop offs. I'm the type that likes to ride the entire
time I'm out, but I also don't have the skills (or the 7 inches of front
and rear travel -- I have a hardtail) to even attempt what they were
riding.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:28:50 -0600, Raptor wrote:

Craig Brossman wrote:

Speaking for myself as a 40-something guy, I guess I can understand
their
feelings. It is not particularly easy being raised to support a family,
be
the pillar of strength, be aggressive in business and athletic life, and
then show our sensitive side when called for, not always be competitive
...

The guys I ride with, particularly those IBM riding partners, are called
on
to be competitive at work and have been (and still are) involved in
individual and team sports. I have often heard many of us say something
to
the effect "everything is a competition", and I think we really believe
it.
It is that aggressive nature that has kept us moving forward in the
corporate world and has driven us to compete with guys half our age on
the
basketball court and on the trail. Sometimes we do OK.

I am not defending myself or these guys, there is really nothing to
defend.
It is just the nature of the beast, arguably unfortunate. I hope the
situation did not annoy you, it does not sound like it did. Bear in
mind, I
am certain it was nothing personal, and probably nothing they have a lot
of
control over, it is just (very often) the way we were raised.

(Maybe I'm speaking for others as well)

Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove .nospam. if replying)

Bah! Why is it so hard to realize that, if you're not an international
champion bike racer, there's someone out there faster than you? And that
unless you're a serious competitive racer of any level, that there are
MANY others out there faster than you?

I don't get passed often, but when I do it's not a big deal. Unless I'm
on my road bike getting passed by mountain bikers. That stings a little,
but it only happens if I'm on a recovery ride.


I've had that happen before.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Well Kathleen,

I think you're most probably making the whole thing up.
I can just sense it.
I think you made this fantasy up as you where riding alone.
I'm not saying women are slower than men, just that you live in a world of
make believe.

I think you are sexist and this male female thing has gotten out of control.
Just relax, nobody is out to prove you're the weaker sex.

:-)


"Kathleen" wrote in message
...
...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look of
them. Not especially fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I to
talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a bit slower than I
wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to
speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd
manage to keep it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back
off again.
Now, I've been in this position before. There's a mindset that I see
fairly often, that seems to feel that being passed by a 41 year-old
woman is tantamount to finding yourself in calculus class in your
underwear, taking a test you never studied for (in other words, your
worst nightmare).
If I pass, they feel honor bound to catch up and pass, never mind that
that they can't maintain the pace. Rather than put up with it, I'll
usually pull to the side of the trail, have a nice long drink, enjoy the
scenery, and let them get far enough ahead that I can ride my pace, they
can ride theirs, and I don't have to deal with anybody's issues.
This time, though, I was in a perverse mood. I decided to treat it as
an experiment. How well could I control the pace of two complete
strangers, from behind, with no verbal communication at all?
Quite well, as it turns out. Their "normal" pace was about 11 mph. I
could force them up to 15 mph just by speeding up gradually. As soon as
I'd slack off, they'd slow down as well, gasping and gulping. I kept it
up for nearly 5 miles, expecting them to put an end to my game at any
time, simply by pulling over. That's what I do (being a solitary and
antisocial rider, for the most part), when I have even the slightest
suspicion that somebody is toying with me.
But not these guys. Did they have any idea that they were being
deliberately herded? I'll never know. I finally turned off onto a side
trail, and up a hill, and watched as they looked behind them, looked
again, and when they saw the coast was clear, finally, and with every
evidence of relief, pulled over and stopped.

Kathleen
Playin' border collie on the trail...

I think it was a cool thing making the work harder than they wanted to. You
did them some good . I went riding with some 40ish guys at or local trail
showing them the race loop for the weekend. I stopped a lot to let them
catch up .No problem till the found out im 43 and one of the slowest in our
group of riders .I don't take the racer thing that serious but I love riding
..I try to get in better shape but with a daughter and a working wife she put
in 50 hour a week and I put in 50
hard to ride this summer daughter is just not that energetic
for a 9 year old .but keep pushing them and 15mph is not that fast unless
your riding some tight single track . or local hot rods do a average of 13
or so we have some tight single track .they do our 9.3 mile loop in 47-48
Min me I do it in 55 min.
Ride Hard Stay Young!!!!!!

--
J/O Trailblazer At large !!

Kathleen wrote:
...That is the question.

Two guys up ahead of me on the trail. Forty-somethings, by the look
of them. Not especially fast, not especially skilled, but then who am I
to talk? The thing is, though, they were going just a bit slower than I
wanted to go. But they kept looking back, and any time I'd start to
speed up to pass, they'd pick up the pace. Well and good, if they'd
manage to keep it up, but no... In no time at all, they'd slack back
off again.
....

Kathleen
Playin' border collie on the trail...

Great idea -- sounds like it was fun .
But, in their defense... depending on my mood, I sometimes take an
overtaking rider as a challenge -- their sex has nothing to do with it.
It just gives me a push to try harder to stay ahead. I yield as they
get close (I'm not trying to block them), but once they've passed me, I
also try to see how long I can keep up. It helps me push myself. If
it's a woman, it's a plus -- I'd much rather watch a female back going
into the distance .

David

Paladin wrote:
snip
In your case, it is funny when complete strangers give you that kind
of control over them, isn't it?

That's just it, isn't it?

Really, though, the only time it's really aggravating is when somebody
playing games makes me bobble a climb that I thought I might have a shot
at finishing. That's pretty much a once in blue moon thing, and when I
think about it, if I'd been paying attention, I could have planned for it.

Kathleen

Kathleen wrote:

It didn't annoy me. I had fun with it. I could have put an end to
it at any point simply by stopping. Maybe it was a little...
cold-blooded, poking at them like that, to see what they'd do. But they
had the same options I did.

Yeah, but you don't have the killer instinct. I would have just kept
tracking them till they had to pull over and collapse, and when they
had, made some witty comment about seeing how long it was going to take
them.

Despite what others have said, I think it's macho bull****. I feel
uncomfortable with someone sitting behind me and will deliberately slow
right down to make them pass if they're not going to do it voluntarily.

If you want to get competitive, go do a race.