To pass, or not to pass...

Doug Taylor wrote in message . ..
Face it: wherever you go, there's
going to be faster gunslingers, male, female, old, young.

Is there an echo in this NG?

JD

"MattB" wrote
Almost any guy who rides much around here has to get used to being passed by
women. We have several local female World Cup competitors who occasionally
blow by me on the trails. There's no choice in the matter for me. It's like
"Hey, that was insert famous rider name here" and before I can be sure
she's gone around the next bend or over the top of a hill. Just part of the
local scene.

The GJ/Fruita scene is much less racer oriented and the better women
riders are very adept at technical terrain. I like to watch...

JD arms of a spotter

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:25:52 +0100, "Shaun Rimmer"
wrote:


-Snip well put opinion-

Shaun aRe - We're all Sisters and Brothers under the same sun.

P.s. - These are only my opinions, and therefore, irrefutable fact - if you
don't agree with me, then you need to replace the pea in your head with a
fully functional human brain and think again ',;~}~

P.p.s. - Vive la difference!

Damn, how insiteful of you. You're not really Rimmer, are you?

"Shaun Rimmer" wrote in message
...

Monique Y. Herman wrote in message
news:Nj4Ra.75086$H17.21709@sccrnsc02...

Speaking for myself as a 20-something girl who has dealt with this macho
bull**** time and time again ... it gets really old.

It gets old when the guy in your martial arts class won't try to
actually hit you when you're sparring, and he claims that it's because
he's been raised not to hit a girl, rather than admitting that he's
afraid of what it will look like if he actually tries and loses.

It gets old when you're treated as being so inherently frail, simply
because you're female, that for a male to "lose" to you is the height of
indignity.

I see a lot of this/these problem(s), as being added to by the mixed
attitudes of (different) women toward themselves. These days, more and
more,
women are taking their rightful places in life (where they can! If only
more
of the world was changing for the better in these matters......), and
dealing with what the world throws at them on their own account. But some
are still stuck in the old stereotyped mould of feminine frailty and
helplessness, not to mention those who outright _play_ on that stereotype
to
get what they want from men. This leaves a lot of men (rightly or wrongly
so - I'm offering no opinion either way) not knowing how to react toward
women, which way will offend or be judged fair, by which woman. Men too
are
seen by some women, in their outdated stereotypical mould, further
exacerbating the longevity of these issues.

On top of all this, we have women trying to _be_ men, and men trying to
_be_
women in life (and I'm not talking about gays here), and apart from in odd
cases, this ain't gonna work! There _are_ fundamental differences in the
ways we are put together, and the ways we work, inside and out, physically
and otherwise (TFFT!Heheheheh......) ',;~}~

There is little if anything that is cut-and-dried, black and white in this
world - changing hue and fluidity of form for the most part, rule how
people
(generally and specifically) interrelate, and this can make it quite a
challenge to deal with, and grow in the process - hey though, give _me_
'*more*', I _love_ it!

These issues need to be worked on by us _all_, and hopefully, over time,
will at least mostly be resolved.

Anyhow, on a slightly different note, I think women are _ACE_! Love 'em!
Love losing to women, love winning them too - what the hell difference
does
it make?

Shaun aRe - We're all Sisters and Brothers under the same sun.

P.s. - These are only my opinions, and therefore, irrefutable fact - if
you
don't agree with me, then you need to replace the pea in your head with a
fully functional human brain and think again ',;~}~

P.p.s. - Vive la difference!


Reading this and reading Monique's comment about martial arts reminded me of
this. Not sure how relevant it really is but I thought that it was a nice
little bedtime story about how extreme this 'equality' and 'battle of the
sexes' stuff can get:

A late night bar fight - two sides. One guy and three girls. Some of you
would affectionately call them Rednecks. They'd known each other for years,
bein' in the same small town an' all.

Insults that started as fun got traded, then with more alcohol it got nasty.
Real nasty. The girls got really personal - digging out years of stuff. He
gave it back as good as he could but was losing the verbal battle. He kept
standing his ground, leaning on the bar just to try and keep face.
Then one of the girls comes along the bar, insulting him the whole way. No
doubt she could sense the imminent victory the way a shark smells blood in
the water. She suddenly throws herself bodily at him, catching him off
guard, and slams her shoulder and elbow into him. He flies backwards
through the air for several feet and hits the floor hard. He bounces back
up, embarrassed to have been floored by her. Unbelievably she tries it
again as he's still gathering himself. But this time he instantly reacts by
meeting her rapidly approaching face with his fist.

To cut a long, long story short, he now has a criminal record for assault
and she was awarded damages and costs.
Interestingly she's won assault cases before - the last one was an ex-b/f.

One instance of the _law_ still being sexist. Who started it and who was
acting in self-defence?

As Shaun says, there is little if anything cut and dried about this issue.
This is obviously an extreme case, but even in day-to-day life it's a
complicated issue. There are mixed messages being sent to men and women
about their roles all the time from many different directions.

Having said that, I still that it's hilarious herding those guys on the
bikes along. I know that riding or driving it's easier to travel at the
same speed as the traffic than it is to remain at your own self-regulated
speed. Maybe it was more that than a competitive thing?
--
Westie

Westie wrote in message
...

"Shaun Rimmer" wrote in message
...


Anyhow, on a slightly different note, I think women are _ACE_! Love 'em!
Love losing to women, love winning them too - what the hell difference
does
it make?

Shaun aRe - We're all Sisters and Brothers under the same sun.

P.s. - These are only my opinions, and therefore, irrefutable fact - if
you
don't agree with me, then you need to replace the pea in your head with
a
fully functional human brain and think again ',;~}~

P.p.s. - Vive la difference!


Reading this and reading Monique's comment about martial arts reminded me
of
this. Not sure how relevant it really is but I thought that it was a nice
little bedtime story about how extreme this 'equality' and 'battle of the
sexes' stuff can get:

A late night bar fight - two sides. One guy and three girls. Some of you
would affectionately call them Rednecks. They'd known each other for
years,
bein' in the same small town an' all.

Insults that started as fun got traded, then with more alcohol it got
nasty.
Real nasty. The girls got really personal - digging out years of stuff.
He
gave it back as good as he could but was losing the verbal battle. He
kept
standing his ground, leaning on the bar just to try and keep face.
Then one of the girls comes along the bar, insulting him the whole way.
No
doubt she could sense the imminent victory the way a shark smells blood in
the water. She suddenly throws herself bodily at him, catching him off
guard, and slams her shoulder and elbow into him. He flies backwards
through the air for several feet and hits the floor hard. He bounces back
up, embarrassed to have been floored by her. Unbelievably she tries it
again as he's still gathering himself. But this time he instantly reacts
by
meeting her rapidly approaching face with his fist.

To cut a long, long story short, he now has a criminal record for assault
and she was awarded damages and costs.
Interestingly she's won assault cases before - the last one was an ex-b/f.

One instance of the _law_ still being sexist. Who started it and who was
acting in self-defence?

As Shaun says, there is little if anything cut and dried about this issue.
This is obviously an extreme case, but even in day-to-day life it's a
complicated issue. There are mixed messages being sent to men and women
about their roles all the time from many different directions.

Heheheh - this is exactly the type of thing that sets us all back!

I was attacked by a (now) ex (more than once). This particular time (and
believe me, I'd done absolutely _zero_ to deserve even anger - she was a
psycho), she repeatedly and with full force, set about my head with her
hands (she was no little girl either - believe me, it hurt like _hell_). I
took it for as long as I could, tried to block, talk her down etc. Then,
when she landed a particularly vicious blow to the side of my head, I
slapped her face, once, not as hard as she'd been hitting me (I would have
walked away, but she was in the doorway and wouldn't let me pass). She sat
down (quite suddenly I might add) on the bed, stood up again, screamed and
cursed at me "YOU HIT _ME_?!?!?!? You ****ING *******!!!!!!" over and over
in the most horrified and indignant tone, like she had every right to hit
me, and I had none. She then tried to call the police, but she'd already
ripped the phone out of its socket when she threw it at me earlier. I just
left.

This is the only time I have ever done that, and I only feel regret that I
didn't punch the bitch full ****ing force in the face.

Anyone starts getting violent with me, they forfeit _any_ and all rights
(that I have already made a given within my own ethics) to be treated any
different (apart from kids of course - you just sit on them until they wear
themselves out, heheheheh.....).

Shaun aRe - Most definitely not a violent person by nature (ask anyone who
knows me) - I abhor violence with a passion.

Kathleen wrote in message
...
Shaun Rimmer wrote:
Kathleen wrote in message

Alright.

That's hitting below the belt. You KNOW how much time and mental energy
I put into being attractive to strangers via the internet.


I seen the photos.......


Now I'm going to have to go lie down in a darkened room with a cold
cloth on my head until I feel strong enough to get on with my life.


What, the dark room/lying down/cold cloth thing turns you into a
man?!?!?!?

Not likely. If it was that simple, I figure you'd have it sorted out by
now, Shaun.

Heheheheh - I was waiting for that ',;~}~

And even if it WAS that easy, I probably wouldn't go for it. Think of
all the time I'd waste trying to recruit obese 9 year-olds and little
old ladies with Alzheimer's as ride buddies so I could slake my
insatiable need to kick ass on the trails.

Sexism rocks, doesn't it little girly? ',;~}~


Shaun aRe - Remember folks, sexism cuts _both_ ways.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:57:56 +1200, Westie
wrote:

Monique Y. Herman wrote in message
news:Nj4Ra.75086$H17.21709@sccrnsc02...

Speaking for myself as a 20-something girl who has dealt with this
macho
bull**** time and time again ... it gets really old.

It gets old when the guy in your martial arts class won't try to
actually hit you when you're sparring, and he claims that it's because
he's been raised not to hit a girl, rather than admitting that he's
afraid of what it will look like if he actually tries and loses.

It gets old when you're treated as being so inherently frail, simply
because you're female, that for a male to "lose" to you is the height
of
indignity.


I'd be more than happy to hit you while sparring, or lose to you. It
matters not to me. And, I've personally never treated a woman as if she
was frail.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Bob M wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:57:56 +1200, Westie
wrote:

I'd be more than happy to hit you while sparring, or lose to you. It
matters not to me. And, I've personally never treated a woman as if she
was frail.


Sure, not every guy has the kinds of issues I described ... it's
prevalent enough in "our" society (by which I mean the US), though, that
it's not an uncommon view to hold.

Heh. My dad, who's visiting to help us move into our new house, has
been tsk-tsking the bruises I acquired in my first two days of clipless.
We have a history of this -- I go out and do something fun, then
come home and proudly show my battle scars. Dad grimaces and changes
the subject.

-- monique

The same guy who keeps telling me that his $150 7-speed is perfect for
him and who complains about butt-bruises but, when I suggest getting
actual padded bike shorts, refuses because he doesn't want to have to
spend any time preparing for his bike rides?

Amusing thought, but I'd just as soon spend the money on the house my
fiance and I just bought =)

-- monique

Stephen Baker wrote:
Monique says:


We have a history of this -- I go out and do something fun, then
come home and proudly show my battle scars. Dad grimaces and changes
the subject.


So buy Dad a mountain bike - it's never too late to have a happy childhood.
Maybe he'll see the light.

Steve