OT railways and green transport

OK so I know everyone has to make money, and that certain fgforms of
transport are subsidised more than others (whether fairly or not). but
what happend this week is ridiculous.

I immediately thought of the trian, the cheapest I could do it was £58,
with a 4 hours journey time back. It also takes me 45 minutes (on a
good day) to get form home to Euston, and another 30 minutes at
Manchester to get to my mates house. On a whim I thought I'd check out
flights, turns out Ican gdo the journey CHEAPER by flying than the
train, and in addition I live a bus ride from Heathrow, and I have less
of a journey when I get to Manchester. Even allowing for longer
check-in times I should be an over an hour quicker getting there and
nearly 2 hours getting back

I want to be green, but in the face of these current train fiasco, I'm
finding it very difficult to justify being. (I don't drive though, so
at least I can still claim some green credentials :-)

Bryan


--
Bryan

Bryan wrote:


I want to be green, but in the face of these current train fiasco, I'm
finding it very difficult to justify being. (I don't drive though, so
at least I can still claim some green credentials :-)

Last year I had to go to London from Hull for an interview with BBC
radio. The return fare was 75 quid on Hull Trains. Wife + two daughters
wanted to come as well which instantly put up the cost of the trip to
300 quid!

We took the car, stayed overnight in a 4 star hotel and still had
change from 100 pounds. Once 3 or 4 in a family want to go on the train
the cost soon becomes silly.

"Bryan" wrote in message
...

OK so I know everyone has to make money, and that certain fgforms of
transport are subsidised more than others (whether fairly or not). but
what happend this week is ridiculous.

I immediately thought of the trian, the cheapest I could do it was £58,
with a 4 hours journey time back. It also takes me 45 minutes (on a
good day) to get form home to Euston, and another 30 minutes at
Manchester to get to my mates house. On a whim I thought I'd check out
flights, turns out Ican gdo the journey CHEAPER by flying than the
train, and in addition I live a bus ride from Heathrow, and I have less
of a journey when I get to Manchester. Even allowing for longer
check-in times I should be an over an hour quicker getting there and
nearly 2 hours getting back

I want to be green, but in the face of these current train fiasco, I'm
finding it very difficult to justify being. (I don't drive though, so
at least I can still claim some green credentials :-)

Bryan


What day/time are you travelling? You can get much cheaper fares if you book
in advance. I'm surprised it would take four hours to get back - the journey
time from Manchester to Euston is 2hrs 20 mins.

wrote on 19/08/2006 00:24 +0100:

Last year I had to go to London from Hull for an interview with BBC
radio. The return fare was 75 quid on Hull Trains. Wife + two daughters
wanted to come as well which instantly put up the cost of the trip to
300 quid!


Family railcard? Would reduce that to £160.


--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:22:28 +1000 someone who may be Bryan
wrote this:-

I immediately thought of the trian, the cheapest I could do it was £58,
with a 4 hours journey time back. It also takes me 45 minutes (on a
good day) to get form home to Euston, and another 30 minutes at
Manchester to get to my mates house. On a whim I thought I'd check out
flights, turns out Ican gdo the journey CHEAPER by flying than the
train,

Often such comparisons are comparing apples with oranges, with the
result being bananas. The usual flaw is to compare a train ticket
that may be used on any train, including it being no problem if one
has to delay one's return for a few days, with an aeroplane ticket
that is far less flexible. Another flaw is to believe the prices
aeroplane companies quote.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Tony Raven wrote:
wrote on 19/08/2006 00:24 +0100:

Last year I had to go to London from Hull for an interview with BBC
radio. The return fare was 75 quid on Hull Trains. Wife + two daughters
wanted to come as well which instantly put up the cost of the trip to
300 quid!


Family railcard? Would reduce that to £160.

The question is whether staff in a ticket office would tell you that.
The Trainline certainly doesn't.

If you're an infrequent rail user, how are you meant to know the deals
that are available? It's frustrating.


Tom

On 18 Aug 2006 16:24:12 -0700 someone who may be "
wrote this:-

Last year I had to go to London from Hull for an interview with BBC
radio. The return fare was 75 quid on Hull Trains. Wife + two daughters
wanted to come as well which instantly put up the cost of the trip to
300 quid!

I have just looked up tickets for 28/8, a day trip from Hull to
London. The cheapest fare I could see was £96 each way, for four
adults. £24 each, each way. Had I looked for September I could
probably have found fares at £38 each way, for four adults. The
interview might have been arranged at shorter notice, but with say
four weeks notice a trip for £78, for four adults, is possible.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:26:01 +0100,
David Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:22:28 +1000 someone who may be Bryan
wrote this:-

I immediately thought of the trian, the cheapest I could do it was £58,
with a 4 hours journey time back. It also takes me 45 minutes (on a
good day) to get form home to Euston, and another 30 minutes at
Manchester to get to my mates house. On a whim I thought I'd check out
flights, turns out Ican gdo the journey CHEAPER by flying than the
train,

Often such comparisons are comparing apples with oranges, with the
result being bananas. The usual flaw is to compare a train ticket
that may be used on any train, including it being no problem if one
has to delay one's return for a few days, with an aeroplane ticket
that is far less flexible. Another flaw is to believe the prices
aeroplane companies quote.

However, it's easier to buy the non-flexible fares on aircraft near to
the travel date.

I was travelling up to Durham on the Friday of the (fortunately called
off) signalmans strike. Taking a days holiday and returning on Monday
evening.

I was perfectly willing to move my travel from Friday-Monday to
Thursday-Sunday.

My Friday ticket could be used on Thursday but my Monday ticket couldn't
be used on Sunday. IIRC The _cheapest_ Sunday ticket I could buy was just
60GBP cheaper than the airfare from City Airport to Newcastle
International on the Friday. I might even have got 30GBP of it back by
not using my train ticket on the Friday although I'm not sure as I'd
still have used the other half (it was two singles but bought at the
same time). Moving my Monday ticket to Sunday and staying in first class
would presumably have been about 100GBP more than the (cheapest)
airfare.

I hate travelling on the train on a Sunday afternoon, early evening on
GNER. The train is usually packed and, coincidentally I'm sure, the
seat reservation printer has usually broken.[1]

Tim.


[1] It's funny how the probability of the seat reservation printer
breaking is directly proportional to the probability of the train being
overbooked. Last year for the weekend of the Great North Run I got the
last seat in first class at Durham (train started at Newcastle) and
there were first class passengers standing for the journey. This year I
made sure I wasn't travelling that weekend.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

wrote:


Last year I had to go to London from Hull for an interview with BBC
radio. The return fare was 75 quid on Hull Trains. Wife + two daughters
wanted to come as well which instantly put up the cost of the trip to
300 quid!

We took the car, stayed overnight in a 4 star hotel and still had
change from 100 pounds. Once 3 or 4 in a family want to go on the train
the cost soon becomes silly.

£100? That's because you only counted the cost of petrol for transport.
The actual cost of an overnight trip to London in the car is nearer £200,
including parking but not the hotel. Even if you just include the differential
costs, i.e. petrol, tyres and servicing, it is still higher than you thought.

Did you get the job?

--
Eiron

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
wrote:


Last year I had to go to London from Hull for an interview with BBC
radio. The return fare was 75 quid on Hull Trains. Wife + two daughters
wanted to come as well which instantly put up the cost of the trip to
300 quid!

We took the car, stayed overnight in a 4 star hotel and still had
change from 100 pounds. Once 3 or 4 in a family want to go on the train
the cost soon becomes silly.

£100? That's because you only counted the cost of petrol for transport.
The actual cost of an overnight trip to London in the car is nearer £200,
including parking but not the hotel. Even if you just include the
differential
costs, i.e. petrol, tyres and servicing, it is still higher than you
thought.

Did you get the job?

It wasn't for a job - it was for a radio show -
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/page485.htm

The fuel costs was 180 miles x 2 = 360 miles. At 35 mpg that uses 10.5
gallons = 47 litres. At UKP 0.88 per litre (last year) that is 41 quid or
so. My daughter worked for Novotel and got cheap rooms (parking included)
for 60 quid = 101 quid.

OK, there's food, but we would have eaten on the train at enormous expense
anyway.

I understand the cheaper rail tickets as well, it's just that it takes a
heck of a lot of ferreting around to make sense of all of the different
tariffs.


--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net