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Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before car narrowlyavoids running him over



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 19th 17, 06:32 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
RJH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before carnarrowly avoids running him over

On 19/05/2017 16:42, Bod wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:38, RJH wrote:
On 19/05/2017 10:55, Nick wrote:
On 18/05/2017 20:50, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
Bod wrote:
This is the moment a London cyclist is sent flying when a driver opens
the door of his parked van without looking.

The dramatic pictures, captured by a dashboard camera in a following
car, show the risks of cyclists being "doored" by motorists failing to
check their mirrors.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londo...-a3542066.html




The cyclist was too close to the van.
What is the road space that drivers are expected to give to these
cockroaches when overtaking?
This cockroach had plenty of road space but was too stupid to use it.

This is the correct answer.

Taking the lane would have protected the cyclist from the door and let
the van behind know it couldn't overtake.


Really? Cyclists should cycle at least an open door width from parked
cars? Is that from the highway code or something?

I'd have thought it'd annoy a fair few motorists . . .

So you condone motorists dangerously dooring cyclists then?


Nope.

--
Cheers, Rob
Ads
  #22  
Old May 19th 17, 06:40 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
RJH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before carnarrowly avoids running him over

On 19/05/2017 16:57, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:50, RJH wrote:
On 19/05/2017 12:44, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 11:28, Nick wrote:
On 19/05/2017 11:15, MrCheerful wrote:

Taking the lane would have protected the cyclist from the door and
let
the van behind know it couldn't overtake.

'car' not van.

Thank you for the correction, but I'm not sure what difference it
makes.

as there is a van in one of the pictures it could confuse someone.

The camera car was not making any attempt to overtake afaics.

If cyclists had compulsory roadcraft education before being allowed on
the road, crashes like this one would be greatly reduced.


IMO (having received 'roadcraft' as a cyclist, motorcyclist and car
driver), you're wrong if you're saying that the cyclist is the casue of
the accident. The fault is in the first instance the van driver for poor
observation, and then the cam-carrying driver for not keeping at a safe
distance.

Of course, cyclists (and that cyclist) might cycle more defensively, on
the reasonable assumption that a motorist will occasionally open a door
into traffic without checking. Happens to me about once very 6 months.

But it's a rock and a hard place - between the aggression of drivers
reacting to defensive cyclists, and poor observation and low skill
catching out cyclists trying to avoid aggressive drivers. So it becomes
a game of risk. I tend to choose a route that cuts down on that risk -
adds about 20% distance to my commute.


The cause of the accident is the van door being opened, but it could
have easily been avoided without any drama, IF the cyclist had kept a
safe distance from the van.


Yes, that's pretty standard - for a car. A bike - even a motorbike - is
different, as I've tried to explain.

Doors being opened carelessly should not be a surprise to any road user,
including pedestrians.


Yet people continue to get hurt.

--
Cheers, Rob
  #23  
Old May 19th 17, 06:49 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
RJH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before carnarrowly avoids running him over

On 19/05/2017 16:52, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:06, Nick wrote:
On 19/05/2017 12:44, MrCheerful wrote:

The camera car was not making any attempt to overtake afaics.


I'm not sure but it looked to me as if the car was closing on the
cyclist as if it were going to overtake. Given what happened we can see
why close overtakes are so dangerous.


If cyclists had compulsory roadcraft education before being allowed on
the road, crashes like this one would be greatly reduced.


Possibly but the danger clearly can from the van and the car. I feel it
is more their responsibility to avoid accidents than it is the cyclists.


If everyone used the roads defensively then crashes would reduce, that
has to include cyclists.

People make mistakes all the time, that will always happen, but as can
be seen in this incident, the cyclist would not have crashed if he had
been riding at a sensible distance from the side of the van. The
cyclist positioning had been chosen by the cyclist, better education in
roadcraft would have meant he made a better choice.

I information: the van has a door that may open.
P Position: Further away, would obviate the problem if the door is opened.


You've not mentioned the car approaching from behind as an 'I' affecting
'P'. We don't know the sound coming from that car - could be they're
holding in second to intimidate the cyclist. maybe an earlier
altercation. Or not.

And as I've tried to explain, a cyclist has to weigh up the risk - say,
the driver tailing them and contact, or the possibility of a door
opening. They then estimate the greater risk.

That road looks like a pile of accidents waiting to happen - narrow,
parked cars, busy. I'd avoid it on a cycle.



--
Cheers, Rob
  #24  
Old May 19th 17, 07:23 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,082
Default Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before carnarrowly avoids running him over

On 19/05/2017 18:49, RJH wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:52, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:06, Nick wrote:
On 19/05/2017 12:44, MrCheerful wrote:

The camera car was not making any attempt to overtake afaics.


I'm not sure but it looked to me as if the car was closing on the
cyclist as if it were going to overtake. Given what happened we can see
why close overtakes are so dangerous.


If cyclists had compulsory roadcraft education before being allowed on
the road, crashes like this one would be greatly reduced.

Possibly but the danger clearly can from the van and the car. I feel it
is more their responsibility to avoid accidents than it is the cyclists.


If everyone used the roads defensively then crashes would reduce, that
has to include cyclists.

People make mistakes all the time, that will always happen, but as can
be seen in this incident, the cyclist would not have crashed if he had
been riding at a sensible distance from the side of the van. The
cyclist positioning had been chosen by the cyclist, better education in
roadcraft would have meant he made a better choice.

I information: the van has a door that may open.
P Position: Further away, would obviate the problem if the door is
opened.


You've not mentioned the car approaching from behind as an 'I' affecting
'P'. We don't know the sound coming from that car - could be they're
holding in second to intimidate the cyclist. maybe an earlier
altercation. Or not.

And as I've tried to explain, a cyclist has to weigh up the risk - say,
the driver tailing them and contact, or the possibility of a door
opening. They then estimate the greater risk.

That road looks like a pile of accidents waiting to happen - narrow,
parked cars, busy. I'd avoid it on a cycle.




If the cyclist was actually frightened by the car behind, then he would
pull over (I would) and let him past. I doubt the cyclist had the
slightest clue about the car behind him, in my experience of following
cyclists they practically never look over their shoulders.

The cyclist was not riding in a safe position for the circumstances.
Training would have helped, hopefully he was not seriously hurt and will
learn from his errors, as will the van driver.

  #25  
Old May 20th 17, 08:19 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
RJH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before carnarrowly avoids running him over

On 19/05/2017 19:23, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 18:49, RJH wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:52, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:06, Nick wrote:
On 19/05/2017 12:44, MrCheerful wrote:

The camera car was not making any attempt to overtake afaics.


I'm not sure but it looked to me as if the car was closing on the
cyclist as if it were going to overtake. Given what happened we can see
why close overtakes are so dangerous.


If cyclists had compulsory roadcraft education before being allowed on
the road, crashes like this one would be greatly reduced.

Possibly but the danger clearly can from the van and the car. I feel it
is more their responsibility to avoid accidents than it is the
cyclists.

If everyone used the roads defensively then crashes would reduce, that
has to include cyclists.

People make mistakes all the time, that will always happen, but as can
be seen in this incident, the cyclist would not have crashed if he had
been riding at a sensible distance from the side of the van. The
cyclist positioning had been chosen by the cyclist, better education in
roadcraft would have meant he made a better choice.

I information: the van has a door that may open.
P Position: Further away, would obviate the problem if the door is
opened.


You've not mentioned the car approaching from behind as an 'I' affecting
'P'. We don't know the sound coming from that car - could be they're
holding in second to intimidate the cyclist. maybe an earlier
altercation. Or not.

And as I've tried to explain, a cyclist has to weigh up the risk - say,
the driver tailing them and contact, or the possibility of a door
opening. They then estimate the greater risk.

That road looks like a pile of accidents waiting to happen - narrow,
parked cars, busy. I'd avoid it on a cycle.




If the cyclist was actually frightened by the car behind, then he would
pull over (I would) and let him past.


Yes, me too. I couldn't outrun a car, even in an urban area. Not should
I. The cyclist in question certainly seems capable of pace - which in no
small part contributed IMO. But that's all factored in when getting from
A-B, and estimating risk.

In my last 'doored' experience I stopped in time. Advantage of being
sloth-like ;-)

I doubt the cyclist had the
slightest clue about the car behind him, in my experience of following
cyclists they practically never look over their shoulders.


Obviously I can't speak for all cyclists, but again, to guess, I do
think you're wrong about 'clue'. Rear-approaching traffic is a major
concern.

Not so much about not looking - I don't see that often, and it scares
the life of of me. I went out with a mate and he swerved violently as he
turned right, into traffic, causing vehicles behind to stop quickly.
Then, when he was in the centre of the road, he stopped and indicated.
He has impaired hearing and is, well, a bit thick. But even so.

That said, I'm sure he is *aware* of the risk. But he's simply the type
of person who believes the world should move around him. He rarely
cycles or walks, and can't drive - which in large part explains why he's
made it to his 60s.

I 'lifesave' and have a mirror. It's such a huge part of urban cycling.

The cyclist was not riding in a safe position for the circumstances.


Yes agreed.

Training would have helped, hopefully he was not seriously hurt and will
learn from his errors, as will the van driver.


And if we extend this conversation to the cause of the accident, general
awareness needs equal billing. But at the top of this conversation
should be road design. For example:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/may/09/how-80-forgotten-1930s-cycleways-could-transform-uk-cycling

That we understood the principles in the *30s* says a great deal about
our society.


--
Cheers, Rob
  #26  
Old May 20th 17, 09:25 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,082
Default Dashcam footage captures cyclist being 'doored' before carnarrowly avoids running him over

On 20/05/2017 08:19, RJH wrote:
On 19/05/2017 19:23, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 18:49, RJH wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:52, MrCheerful wrote:
On 19/05/2017 16:06, Nick wrote:
On 19/05/2017 12:44, MrCheerful wrote:

The camera car was not making any attempt to overtake afaics.


I'm not sure but it looked to me as if the car was closing on the
cyclist as if it were going to overtake. Given what happened we can
see
why close overtakes are so dangerous.


If cyclists had compulsory roadcraft education before being
allowed on
the road, crashes like this one would be greatly reduced.

Possibly but the danger clearly can from the van and the car. I
feel it
is more their responsibility to avoid accidents than it is the
cyclists.

If everyone used the roads defensively then crashes would reduce, that
has to include cyclists.

People make mistakes all the time, that will always happen, but as can
be seen in this incident, the cyclist would not have crashed if he had
been riding at a sensible distance from the side of the van. The
cyclist positioning had been chosen by the cyclist, better education in
roadcraft would have meant he made a better choice.

I information: the van has a door that may open.
P Position: Further away, would obviate the problem if the door is
opened.

You've not mentioned the car approaching from behind as an 'I' affecting
'P'. We don't know the sound coming from that car - could be they're
holding in second to intimidate the cyclist. maybe an earlier
altercation. Or not.

And as I've tried to explain, a cyclist has to weigh up the risk - say,
the driver tailing them and contact, or the possibility of a door
opening. They then estimate the greater risk.

That road looks like a pile of accidents waiting to happen - narrow,
parked cars, busy. I'd avoid it on a cycle.




If the cyclist was actually frightened by the car behind, then he would
pull over (I would) and let him past.


Yes, me too. I couldn't outrun a car, even in an urban area. Not should
I. The cyclist in question certainly seems capable of pace - which in no
small part contributed IMO. But that's all factored in when getting from
A-B, and estimating risk.

In my last 'doored' experience I stopped in time. Advantage of being
sloth-like ;-)

I doubt the cyclist had the
slightest clue about the car behind him, in my experience of following
cyclists they practically never look over their shoulders.


Obviously I can't speak for all cyclists, but again, to guess, I do
think you're wrong about 'clue'. Rear-approaching traffic is a major
concern.

Not so much about not looking - I don't see that often, and it scares
the life of of me. I went out with a mate and he swerved violently as he
turned right, into traffic, causing vehicles behind to stop quickly.
Then, when he was in the centre of the road, he stopped and indicated.
He has impaired hearing and is, well, a bit thick. But even so.

That said, I'm sure he is *aware* of the risk. But he's simply the type
of person who believes the world should move around him. He rarely
cycles or walks, and can't drive - which in large part explains why he's
made it to his 60s.

I 'lifesave' and have a mirror. It's such a huge part of urban cycling.

The cyclist was not riding in a safe position for the circumstances.


Yes agreed.

Training would have helped, hopefully he was not seriously hurt and will
learn from his errors, as will the van driver.


And if we extend this conversation to the cause of the accident, general
awareness needs equal billing. But at the top of this conversation
should be road design. For example:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/may/09/how-80-forgotten-1930s-cycleways-could-transform-uk-cycling


That we understood the principles in the *30s* says a great deal about
our society.



Ah, a sensible post, nice to see on this group.
 




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