Spoke Tension Meter That Is Easy On The Hands?

On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 07:14:47 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/21/2016 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 22:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Dennis Davis
wrote:

In article ,
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a very basic WheelSmith tensiometer, but when I do an
entire wheel my hands get sore.

viz: http://tinyurl.com/jyzvl2f

Can anybody suggest something more hand-friendly that doesn't cost
over $200?

See:

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/support/tensiometers/

Roger Musson reckons tensiometers aren't really necessary. But the
Park tool tensiometer is good enough. Available for about 50 quid
in the UK:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/park-tool-spoke-tension-meter/

Don't know how "hand-friendly" the Park tensiometer is likely to be.

I don't have a tensiometer and have never used one when building
wheels. Has worked well for me but, as usual, YMMV.

If I ever got a tensiometer, I suspect I'd use it mainly to check
the spokes were evenly tensioned. Rather than just plucking them
which is what I've done up to now.

The question I have always had is if the wheel is perfectly round and
with any side to side wobble is the question of individual spoke
tension something to be worried about?

Note: Individual meaning one or two spokes.


You're right as far as it goes. For a new rim freshly built,
spoke tension will be relatively uniform but not exactly
identical spoke-to-spoke. In theory, a new wheel should have
equal tension for all spokes on the same side of a hub but
in this real physical world, not so much. (on a surviving
wheel of many urban commutes all bets are off)

The tensiometer tells you if the overall tension is
suitable. That value depends on rim material/model and how
much offset your hub introduces on the right side.

Yes, I agree with you in principal.

I was referring to a wheel when after getting the rim perfectly round
with no wobble side to side and you discover a number of spokes that
are either tighter, or looser, then the rest. What does one do? If you
tighten or loosen them then the wheel will no longer be round or
without "lateral run out".

Or perhaps the question is whether it is better to have a round wheel,
or evenly tightened spokes?
--
cheers,

John B.

Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:

"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...
On 9/22/2016 9:48 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Benderthe.evilrobot:
When I was a kid, someone demonstrated pinging the spokes with a tea
spoon
and listening to the pitch.

That would seem to work for relative tension - but not of actual
tension.

If you can tune a guitar - you can tune a wheel...................

I have to use a little electronic doodad with a LCD readout.

Come to think of it..........................most come with a coupler for
acoustic guitars, so all you need to know is what pitch is the right
tension.

This technique would be dead simple for a radially spokes wheel, but it
gets a little trickier on a three cross wheel build, since you have three
different length segments which resonate at different frequencies as well
as the plucked spoke causing all the other "connected" spokes to ring.

Per AMuzi:
As with any threaded fastener you can get more tension with
less torque on a lubricated thread. We like linseed oil
although just about any oil will do. Oil the threads
sloppily as to wet the nipple-rim interface as well.

Bingo !!!!

Without removing or loosening the nipples, I put a drop of lube on the
outside end of each nipple. Then I went back and did the same on the
inside end of each nipple.

Dunno if it got into the threads or not.... but for sure it lubed the
interface between nipples and rim.

Bottom line: Case Closed.... Now the nipples can be tightened to the
recommended tension with no problems, no broken spokes.

Next thing, I'll ping each spoke to identify any that are obviously
tighter or looser than the rest and adjust accordingly using the
tensionmeter.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:58:56 PM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 21/09/16 21:33, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a very basic WheelSmith tensiometer, but when I do an entire
wheel my hands get sore.

viz: http://tinyurl.com/jyzvl2f

Can anybody suggest something more hand-friendly that doesn't cost over
$200?

I use the Park TM-1 and I don't reckon it's any easier on the hands than
what you have, so I wouldn't be looking down that road.

The Park doesn't have any sharp edges, and unless you have arthritis, it is exceptionally easy to use -- and it's cheap.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 7:29:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/22/2016 8:53 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Frank Krygowski:
I'm curious about exactly how your hands get sore. Is it muscular or
joint fatigue from having to squeeze the thing so often? Or is it pain
from the relatively thin edges digging into your hand?

The last one: point loading by those hard edges on
squeeze-after-squeeze.

Good thought about softening the edges.... I've got some electrician's
mastic somewhere and I'll give that a try.

But I am also suspicious of my current device's accuracy.

Rohloff wants me to put 94 kgs of tension on my spokes, but when I get
up to what the meter says is a little over half of that threads start
squeaking and one spoke has already broken at the threads.


As with any threaded fastener you can get more tension with
less torque on a lubricated thread. We like linseed oil
although just about any oil will do. Oil the threads
sloppily as to wet the nipple-rim interface as well.


I use linseed oil because it acts as a mild threadlock and a lubricant. A straight lubricant doesn't do the trick for me anymore with lightweight rims.. Tensions that are sufficient to keep the wheel straight without a threadlocker are also sufficient to cause cracking at the spoke holes. I bought a Park tensiometer after cracking a couple Velocity Aeroheads 20 years ago that I built to tone and perceived tension (i.e. my finely calibrated hands)..

-- Jay Beattie.

Per (PeteCresswell):
Bottom line: Case Closed....

For the benefit of anybody else who is going here, I started on this
little venture because of 3 things:

- An increase in frequency of broken spokes

- Spokes working loose

- Spoke-related noises from the wheel.


Assuming a linear relationship in the tensiometer's readings, it looks
to me like, before this, the wheel's spokes were at only 1/3 to 1/2 of
the recommended tension.

Now they are all up to 100 N.

Even so my car seems to drive better after I wash it.... I think the
bike rides noticeably better with the properly-tensioned spokes... it
just feels tighter, more precise, and more responsive. It's a pig to
begin with.... but now it is noticeably less of a pig.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 23/09/16 16:10, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 9:58:56 PM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 21/09/16 21:33, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a very basic WheelSmith tensiometer, but when I do an entire
wheel my hands get sore.

viz: http://tinyurl.com/jyzvl2f

Can anybody suggest something more hand-friendly that doesn't cost over
$200?

I use the Park TM-1 and I don't reckon it's any easier on the hands than
what you have, so I wouldn't be looking down that road.

The Park doesn't have any sharp edges, and unless you have arthritis, it is exceptionally easy to use -- and it's cheap.

It's cheap, I'll grant you that.

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 7:48:45 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Benderthe.evilrobot:
When I was a kid, someone demonstrated pinging the spokes with a tea spoon
and listening to the pitch.

That would seem to work for relative tension - but not of actual
tension.

Rohloff suggests that spokes be tensioned to about 1000N (with tire
inflated):
https://www.rohloff.de/en/technology...ity/index.html

My problem is getting spokes to that number.


--
Pete Cresswell

C has a Rollo right ? with what Ga spoke ?

C does engineering ?

the path to the number has boundaries. If those boundaries are exceeded with non uniform rim, approach, mistakes, over torqued areas due to inexperience ...

my experience covers the ground but not the nomenclature....

Using the truss bridge analogy twist all day but a coupla errors n the bridge trusses in the end product are not equally torqued tho the bridge looks straight...but if you demand all trusses go to 1000Nx then ?

pop pop

I get to 75% n ride on .....but re-torque next week.

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:19:19 PM UTC-6, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 7:48:45 AM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Benderthe.evilrobot:
When I was a kid, someone demonstrated pinging the spokes with a tea spoon
and listening to the pitch.

That would seem to work for relative tension - but not of actual
tension.

Rohloff suggests that spokes be tensioned to about 1000N (with tire
inflated):
https://www.rohloff.de/en/technology...ity/index.html

My problem is getting spokes to that number.


--
Pete Cresswell

C has a Rollo right ? with what Ga spoke ?

C does engineering ?

the path to the number has boundaries. If those boundaries are exceeded with non uniform rim, approach, mistakes, over torqued areas due to inexperience ...

my experience covers the ground but not the nomenclature....

Using the truss bridge analogy twist all day but a coupla errors n the bridge trusses in the end product are not equally torqued tho the bridge looks straight...but if you demand all trusses go to 1000Nx then ?

pop pop

I get to 75% n ride on .....but re-torque next week.

never used a gauge ..imagine gauge experience may allow for a backing off from a point where more torque feels destructive at sections where torque is not even with the math truss n retorquing from there in oursuit of perfection...but haven't read advice on staging the tune

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 12:33:58 PM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a very basic WheelSmith tensiometer, but when I do an entire
wheel my hands get sore.

viz: http://tinyurl.com/jyzvl2f

Can anybody suggest something more hand-friendly that doesn't cost over
$200?
--
Pete Cresswell

Pete, you insert all of the spokes and take them up near the point at which they get tight. Then you tighten ONE with your tensiometer. You then use your spoke tool to "ring" the spokes and tighten them all up to the said "ring".

You can use the tensiometer off and on just to give you an idea of what is going on. Tensiometers are usually used by automatic spoking machines since they don't have a sense of feel.

After you have all of the tensions about equal according to the "ring" you can make ONLY minor adjustments to straighten the wheel. With a good rim from start to finish you shouldn't need to spend more than about a half hour using this method.

You have to be careful that you cross the spokes correctly or they "click" under use and drive you crazy.