#21
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Helmets
On 09-30-2016 02:01, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 21:48:52 -0500, "W. Wesley Groleau" wrote: On 09-29-2016 20:55, John B. wrote: The study shows that the older generation prefers working in challenging but possibly risky situations while the younger generation do not like placing themselves in risky situations. Alternate interpretation: One generation takes too many risks, The next generation sees the disasters that result and becomes afraid of risk. What disasters? You mean the 700-something people that died riding a bicycle? Compared with the numbers that died while walking? Or died due to falls? The NHTSA has it that there were 4,735 pedestrian fatalities, some six and a half times the number of bicycle fatalities. Are people afraid of walking? Should one wear a helmet while walking? Enlighten me. You mention a study saying one generation takes more risks, I propose a hypothetical causality, and you assume I'm trying to start a fight about whether bicycling is safe? -- Wes Groleau |
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#22
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Helmets
On 09-30-2016 07:21, Duane wrote:
On 29/09/2016 10:48 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote: On 09-29-2016 20:55, John B. wrote: The study shows that the older generation prefers working in challenging but possibly risky situations while the younger generation do not like placing themselves in risky situations. Alternate interpretation: One generation takes too many risks, The next generation sees the disasters that result and becomes afraid of risk. As the father of a generation Y kid I think that study is bunk. Just watch the snow boarders some time. Maybe it's saying that the younger ones prefer not to WORK in a dangerous situation. They certainly don't seem to mind playing in one. Be wary of stereotyping the entire generation from your son, from snowboarders, or from that study. -- Wes Groleau |
#23
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Helmets
On 09-30-2016 02:51, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 23:03:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/29/2016 9:55 PM, John B. wrote: Recently the Bangkok Post published the results of a survey made by Mahadol University's Institute for Population and Social Research which compares Generation X, those born between 1961 and 1981 with the Y generation born between 1982 and 2005. The study shows that the older generation prefers working in challenging but possibly risky situations while the younger generation do not like placing themselves in risky situations. Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish. Somewhat related, although I may have written about this befo Atlantic Monthly some months ago had a long, thorough cover story on overprotected children. Among much else, the article mentioned a young PhD candidate (anthropology or sociology, I forget which) who observed kids in the 1970s, much the way a biologist would observe a wildlife species. Among other things, he studied their territories, their movements during the day, including their wading in creeks, building "huts" in the woods, roaming the neighborhoods, etc. He checked back on some of those kids 20 years later, when they were adults and had kids of their own. Those former free range kids now all had chain link fences surrounding their back yards, and prohibited their own kids from doing what they had done when they were young. I don't believe that there is any question that is true. My 14 year old granddaughter has to walk about 1/3rd mile from the house to the bus stop and her father escorts her as "there are so many motorcycles it is dangerous". I might note that her father walked to school with no problems :-) I used to drop my son off on the college campus on my way to work (back when I had a car). One day, I was late, so instead of risking the campus traffic, I pulled into a nearby coffee shop. "You expect me to walk all the way to school?" "No, I expect you to go across the street to the bus stop and ride the FREE bus the whole TWO BLOCKS." :-) When he used to complain that something was too far (meaning almost half a kilometer), I just gave him the look that means "You're telling a man who bicycles fifty kilometers in ninety minutes to get to the train station that the (grocery store) is too far?" "If God had intended for us to walk, we wouldn't have been bon with cars." -- Wes Groleau |
#24
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Helmets
On 09-30-2016 10:40, Radey Shouman wrote:
Also, the younger generation doesn't read newspapers much. The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. ββ Thomas Jefferson -- Wes Groleau |
#25
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Helmets
On 9/30/2016 11:39 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote: On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter wrote: On 2016-09-30, John B wrote: Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish. Trolling much? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding is similar to your you tube example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on YouTube. Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car. If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it is smart to do so. Silly me. I thought impact force was related to mass and velocity. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#26
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Helmets
On 9/30/2016 11:55 AM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 09-30-2016 10:40, Radey Shouman wrote: Also, the younger generation doesn't read newspapers much. The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. ββ Thomas Jefferson Trouble is, Jefferson was so prolific a writer over so long a time that you could support or damn just about any random thought with a Jefferson quotation or two. Jefferson writes from Paris to Edward Carrington, whom Jefferson sent as a delegate to the Continental Congress from 1786 to 1788, on the importance of a free press to keep government in check. He concludes that if he had to choose between a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter: -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#27
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Helmets
On 2016-09-30 10:34, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:39 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote: On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter wrote: On 2016-09-30, John B wrote: Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish. Trolling much? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding is similar to your you tube example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on YouTube. Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car. If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it is smart to do so. Silly me. I thought impact force was related to mass and velocity. It's the deceleration that counts. More than 300 G on the noggin is regarded as not likely survivable. Styrofoam may not be a glamorous material because it is used in packaging but it does have good properties when it comes to transferring impact energy into heat and deformation. Which is why it is also used in the bumper absorber section of many modern cars. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#28
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Helmets
On 9/30/2016 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote: On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter wrote: On 2016-09-30, John B wrote: Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish. Trolling much? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding is similar to your you tube example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on YouTube. Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car. If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it is smart to do so. And yet, America's serious and fatal TBI counts for motoring totally eclipse those for riding bikes. Obviously, the crumple zones, belts and airbags are not sufficient. Car helmets have been seriously proposed. http://www.copenhagenize.com/search/...or%20motorists (Race car drivers use them, but ordinary drivers don't; yet some helmeteers say all bicyclists should wear them because bike racers are forced to. Go figure!) Similarly, serious or fatal pedestrian TBI numbers are far, far higher than those for cyclists, whether in absolute count or on a per-mile basis. If a pedestrian brain injury can be avoided or reduced to a less consequential one with a helmet, why isn't it smart to do so? Do _you_ wear a helmet while walking? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#29
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Helmets
On 9/30/2016 12:55 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 09-30-2016 10:40, Radey Shouman wrote: Also, the younger generation doesn't read newspapers much. The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. ββ Thomas Jefferson Of course, he was very much in favor of reading books in addition to reading newspapers. We just returned from visiting Monticello (again). The man's library was very impressive - as was so much else. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#30
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Helmets
On 9/30/2016 1:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 10:34, AMuzi wrote: On 9/30/2016 11:39 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote: On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter wrote: On 2016-09-30, John B wrote: Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish. Trolling much? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding is similar to your you tube example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on YouTube. Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car. If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it is smart to do so. Silly me. I thought impact force was related to mass and velocity. It's the deceleration that counts. More than 300 G on the noggin is regarded as not likely survivable. Styrofoam may not be a glamorous material because it is used in packaging but it does have good properties when it comes to transferring impact energy into heat and deformation. Which is why it is also used in the bumper absorber section of many modern cars. Since the original [linear] 300 G research, it's been shown pretty conclusively that most TBI is a result of rotational acceleration, not linear acceleration. Unfortunately, bike helmets do little to attenuate rotational acceleration. They may even exacerbate it, due to their larger "target" size and larger moment arm for glancing blows. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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