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  #21  
Old September 30th 16, 05:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
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Posts: 372
Default Helmets

On 09-30-2016 02:01, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 21:48:52 -0500, "W. Wesley Groleau"
wrote:

On 09-29-2016 20:55, John B. wrote:
The study shows that the older generation prefers working in
challenging but possibly risky situations while the younger generation
do not like placing themselves in risky situations.


Alternate interpretation: One generation takes too many risks, The next
generation sees the disasters that result and becomes afraid of risk.


What disasters?

You mean the 700-something people that died riding a bicycle? Compared
with the numbers that died while walking? Or died due to falls?

The NHTSA has it that there were 4,735 pedestrian fatalities, some six
and a half times the number of bicycle fatalities. Are people afraid
of walking? Should one wear a helmet while walking?


Enlighten me. You mention a study saying one generation takes more
risks, I propose a hypothetical causality, and you assume I'm trying to
start a fight about whether bicycling is safe?

--
Wes Groleau
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  #22  
Old September 30th 16, 05:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
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Posts: 372
Default Helmets

On 09-30-2016 07:21, Duane wrote:
On 29/09/2016 10:48 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 09-29-2016 20:55, John B. wrote:
The study shows that the older generation prefers working in
challenging but possibly risky situations while the younger generation
do not like placing themselves in risky situations.


Alternate interpretation: One generation takes too many risks, The next
generation sees the disasters that result and becomes afraid of risk.


As the father of a generation Y kid I think that study is bunk. Just
watch the snow boarders some time. Maybe it's saying that the younger
ones prefer not to WORK in a dangerous situation. They certainly don't
seem to mind playing in one.


Be wary of stereotyping the entire generation from your son, from
snowboarders, or from that study.

--
Wes Groleau
  #23  
Old September 30th 16, 05:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 372
Default Helmets

On 09-30-2016 02:51, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 23:03:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/29/2016 9:55 PM, John B. wrote:


Recently the Bangkok Post published the results of a survey made by
Mahadol University's Institute for Population and Social Research
which compares Generation X, those born between 1961 and 1981 with the
Y generation born between 1982 and 2005.

The study shows that the older generation prefers working in
challenging but possibly risky situations while the younger generation
do not like placing themselves in risky situations.

Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave
and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and
fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish.


Somewhat related, although I may have written about this befo

Atlantic Monthly some months ago had a long, thorough cover story on
overprotected children. Among much else, the article mentioned a young
PhD candidate (anthropology or sociology, I forget which) who observed
kids in the 1970s, much the way a biologist would observe a wildlife
species. Among other things, he studied their territories, their
movements during the day, including their wading in creeks, building
"huts" in the woods, roaming the neighborhoods, etc.

He checked back on some of those kids 20 years later, when they were
adults and had kids of their own. Those former free range kids now all
had chain link fences surrounding their back yards, and prohibited their
own kids from doing what they had done when they were young.


I don't believe that there is any question that is true. My 14 year
old granddaughter has to walk about 1/3rd mile from the house to the
bus stop and her father escorts her as "there are so many motorcycles
it is dangerous". I might note that her father walked to school with
no problems :-)


I used to drop my son off on the college campus on my way to work (back
when I had a car). One day, I was late, so instead of risking the
campus traffic, I pulled into a nearby coffee shop.

"You expect me to walk all the way to school?"

"No, I expect you to go across the street to the bus stop and ride
the FREE bus the whole TWO BLOCKS."

:-)

When he used to complain that something was too far (meaning almost half
a kilometer), I just gave him the look that means "You're telling a man
who bicycles fifty kilometers in ninety minutes to get to the train
station that the (grocery store) is too far?"

"If God had intended for us to walk, we wouldn't have been bon with cars."


--
Wes Groleau
  #24  
Old September 30th 16, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
W. Wesley Groleau
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Posts: 372
Default Helmets

On 09-30-2016 10:40, Radey Shouman wrote:
Also, the younger generation doesn't read newspapers much.


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
β€”β€” Thomas Jefferson


--
Wes Groleau
  #25  
Old September 30th 16, 06:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Helmets

On 9/30/2016 11:39 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter

wrote:

On 2016-09-30, John B wrote:

Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older
folks are brave
and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are
timid and
fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern
helmet fetish.

Trolling much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding
is similar to
your you tube example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA

There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on
YouTube.


Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes
don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car.

If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less
consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it
is smart to do so.


Silly me. I thought impact force was related to mass and
velocity.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #26  
Old September 30th 16, 06:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Helmets

On 9/30/2016 11:55 AM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 09-30-2016 10:40, Radey Shouman wrote:
Also, the younger generation doesn't read newspapers much.


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
β€”β€” Thomas Jefferson




Trouble is, Jefferson was so prolific a writer over so long
a time that you could support or damn just about any random
thought with a Jefferson quotation or two.

Jefferson writes from Paris to Edward Carrington, whom
Jefferson sent as a delegate to the Continental Congress
from 1786 to 1788, on the importance of a free press to keep
government in check. He concludes that if he had to choose
between “a government without newspapers or newspapers
without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to
prefer the latter”:

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old September 30th 16, 06:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Helmets

On 2016-09-30 10:34, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:39 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter

wrote:

On 2016-09-30, John B wrote:

Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older
folks are brave
and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are
timid and
fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern
helmet fetish.

Trolling much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding
is similar to
your you tube example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA

There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on
YouTube.


Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes
don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car.

If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less
consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it
is smart to do so.


Silly me. I thought impact force was related to mass and velocity.


It's the deceleration that counts. More than 300 G on the noggin is
regarded as not likely survivable. Styrofoam may not be a glamorous
material because it is used in packaging but it does have good
properties when it comes to transferring impact energy into heat and
deformation. Which is why it is also used in the bumper absorber section
of many modern cars.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #28  
Old September 30th 16, 06:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Helmets

On 9/30/2016 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter
wrote:

On 2016-09-30, John B wrote:

Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older folks are brave
and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are timid and
fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern helmet fetish.

Trolling much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding is similar to
your you tube example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA

There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on YouTube.


Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes don't. You land
on your noggin much easier than in the car.

If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less consequential one with
reasonable means such as a helmet it is smart to do so.


And yet, America's serious and fatal TBI counts for motoring totally
eclipse those for riding bikes. Obviously, the crumple zones, belts and
airbags are not sufficient.

Car helmets have been seriously proposed.
http://www.copenhagenize.com/search/...or%20motorists

(Race car drivers use them, but ordinary drivers don't; yet some
helmeteers say all bicyclists should wear them because bike racers are
forced to. Go figure!)

Similarly, serious or fatal pedestrian TBI numbers are far, far higher
than those for cyclists, whether in absolute count or on a per-mile
basis. If a pedestrian brain injury can be avoided or reduced to a less
consequential one with a helmet, why isn't it smart to do so? Do _you_
wear a helmet while walking?


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old September 30th 16, 07:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Helmets

On 9/30/2016 12:55 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 09-30-2016 10:40, Radey Shouman wrote:
Also, the younger generation doesn't read newspapers much.


The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
β€”β€” Thomas Jefferson


Of course, he was very much in favor of reading books in addition to
reading newspapers.

We just returned from visiting Monticello (again). The man's library
was very impressive - as was so much else.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old September 30th 16, 07:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Helmets

On 9/30/2016 1:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 10:34, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:39 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 09:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/30/2016 11:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-30 02:23, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 02:59:30 -0500, Gregory Sutter

wrote:

On 2016-09-30, John B wrote:

Or, perhaps to put in more graphic terms, the older
folks are brave
and stalwart individuals while the youngsters are
timid and
fainthearted. Which, of course, explains the modern
helmet fetish.

Trolling much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

I am amazed. Are you implying that your bicycle riding
is similar to
your you tube example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebd1z8m-AiA

There are hundreds of those "car crash" compilations on
YouTube.


Cars have cumple zones, belts, airbags and so on. Bikes
don't. You land on your noggin much easier than in the car.

If an injury can be avoided or reduced to a less
consequential one with reasonable means such as a helmet it
is smart to do so.


Silly me. I thought impact force was related to mass and velocity.


It's the deceleration that counts. More than 300 G on the noggin is
regarded as not likely survivable. Styrofoam may not be a glamorous
material because it is used in packaging but it does have good
properties when it comes to transferring impact energy into heat and
deformation. Which is why it is also used in the bumper absorber section
of many modern cars.


Since the original [linear] 300 G research, it's been shown pretty
conclusively that most TBI is a result of rotational acceleration, not
linear acceleration.

Unfortunately, bike helmets do little to attenuate rotational
acceleration. They may even exacerbate it, due to their larger "target"
size and larger moment arm for glancing blows.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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