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Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 21st 09, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
someone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,340
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Why do you infer I made such a claim? I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. I was not being specific to model. I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.
Ads
  #12  
Old August 21st 09, 10:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


_ wrote:
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are
a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened
of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


AMuzi wrote:
I doubt they are CrMo and they are certainly not hardened
(having threaded them).


Ben C wrote:
A related question: if a bolt is CrMo presumably that implies it's not
stainless and will therefore rust?


They rust.
Some stainless alloys are more resistant to corrosion than
others. "stainless" (inoxydable in EU) just means it rusts
less quickly. Mild steel rusts roughly the same as CrMo steel.

A brake bolt oughta be oiled anyway so it's not a problem in
real life.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #13  
Old August 21st 09, 10:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On Aug 21, 3:59*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I have a pair of old Shimano N-600 single pivot brakes I want to put
on my repainted MIELE Uno. These brakes are the nutted type and I want
to use recessed nuts on them. Is there any reason I can't just use a
die to cut more thread on the existing bolt and then cut off the bolyt
shorter for the recessed bolts? Does anyone know what die threading
I'd need for these threads?


Use the medium length rear for your allen front then cut the
long bolt and thread it m6 x 1.0 for the allen rear.

Since the rear brake is oriented to present less danger of a
failure, do it that way and use the factory threaded 'rear'
bolt in front.

Or of course alternately get a Shimano short bolt for the rear.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Hi and thanks Andrew.

I'll go and get the M6 x 1.0 die you recommend.

Cheers from Peter
  #14  
Old August 22nd 09, 12:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
_[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,228
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:

On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Why do you infer I made such a claim? I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. I was not being specific to model. I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.


I'd be interested in the source of this claim that *any* brake bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

(with the same caveat in re "experience").
  #15  
Old August 22nd 09, 01:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
someone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,340
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On Aug 22, 12:55*pm, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


*a) "chromoly"; and
*b) hardened


*of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
*clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------


Why do you infer I made such a claim? * I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. *I was not being specific to model. *I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. *Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.


I'd be interested in the source of this claim that *any* brake bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

(with the same caveat in re "experience").


would you prefer a softened pivot bolt?
  #16  
Old August 22nd 09, 08:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
_[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,228
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:

On Aug 22, 12:55*pm, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


*a) "chromoly"; and
*b) hardened


*of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
*clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------


Why do you infer I made such a claim? * I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. *I was not being specific to model. *I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. *Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.


I'd be interested in the source of this claim that *any* brake bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened

(with the same caveat in re "experience").


would you prefer a softened pivot bolt?


Irrelevant.

Still waiting for the source for your claim that brake bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened.
  #17  
Old August 22nd 09, 09:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
someone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,340
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On Aug 22, 8:06*pm, _
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On Aug 22, 12:55*pm, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


*a) "chromoly"; and
*b) hardened


*of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
*clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------


Why do you infer I made such a claim? * I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. *I was not being specific to model. *I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. *Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.


I'd be interested in the source of this claim that *any* brake bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


(with the same caveat in re "experience").


would you prefer a softened pivot bolt?


Irrelevant.

Still waiting for the source for your claim that brake bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened.


Perhaps that wont be too long for you, he's dead. At least one of the
sets of weinmann brakes I had had a hardened and plated, if not
chromoly, cenytre bolt, I couldn't sink a dot punch with a normal
strike. These were likely the 500 with QR or the 405, a pure racing
set. Absolutely spot on brakes (405) as long as the rubber wasn't too
old. I have a feeling that these were considered, along with Carerra
to be at least the equal of Campag's Gran sport and Record models in
terms of performance. To claim that the bolt is in an annealed state
is ridiculous for a quality item. The bolt must have some temper to
suit its purpose.
  #18  
Old August 23rd 09, 12:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
_[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,228
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:09:56 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:

On Aug 22, 8:06*pm, _
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On Aug 22, 12:55*pm, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


*a) "chromoly"; and
*b) hardened


*of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
*clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------


Why do you infer I made such a claim? * I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. *I was not being specific to model. *I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. *Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.


I'd be interested in the source of this claim that *any* brake bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


(with the same caveat in re "experience").


would you prefer a softened pivot bolt?


Irrelevant.

Still waiting for the source for your claim that brake bolts are

a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened.


Perhaps that wont be too long for you, he's dead. At least one of the
sets of weinmann brakes I had had a hardened and plated, if not
chromoly, cenytre bolt, I couldn't sink a dot punch with a normal
strike. These were likely the 500 with QR or the 405, a pure racing
set. Absolutely spot on brakes (405) as long as the rubber wasn't too
old. I have a feeling that these were considered, along with Carerra
to be at least the equal of Campag's Gran sport and Record models in
terms of performance. To claim that the bolt is in an annealed state
is ridiculous for a quality item. The bolt must have some temper to
suit its purpose.


So, we've gone from

a) Shimano bolts are "chromoly" and hardened; to
b) some brake bolts are "chromoly" and hardened; to
c) a guy who's now dead told you something a long time ago about brake
bolts being either "chomoly" or hardened (or both), and you had one once
that you don't know if it was "chomoly" or plated, and you were unable to
make a mark on it with a punch, so you are sure it was hardened.

(That you expected to tell the particular composition of a steel just by
looking at it somehow does not surprise me.)

I just went in the box of bits and took a file to the ends of 16 brake
bolts from ten different manufacturers. Three of those were Weinmann (an
Alpha, a 570 Top, and a Vainquer 999).

Not one of those 16 had a brake bolt that the file did not easily cut.

Now, of course, we (at least those of us with some modicum of technical
knowledge) know that "hard" and "chromloy" are not specific terms; hardness
being a widely varying quality, and "chromoly" ususally referring to any of
a number of steels...

....but your claim, such as it is and absent any further suppport, can
safely be filed with the ones of most cyclists having exceeded 60 miles an
hour, qr skewers never having cut threads, and diesel engines being defined
as having no valves.
  #19  
Old August 23rd 09, 12:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
someone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,340
Default Converting Brake mounting bolt to recessed bolt?

On 23 Aug, 12:44, _
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:09:56 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On Aug 22, 8:06*pm, _
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On Aug 22, 12:55*pm, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
On 21 Aug, 21:24, _
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT), someone wrote:
Cutting two lengths of tube is much easier than cutting and threading
an already hardened chromoly mounting bolt btw.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm dead
clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.


I'd be interested in the source for this claim that:
---------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in the source for this claim that Shimano N600 brake
bolts are


*a) "chromoly"; and
*b) hardened


*of course, if it's of the nature of "my 'experience' says so, and I'm
dead
*clever, I am", that will get the weight it deserves.
-----------------------------------------------------------


Why do you infer I made such a claim? * I was giving my experience of
hardened brake pivot bolt. *I was not being specific to model. *I
suspected it may apply to 600 calipers at least in some markets.
Using a dot punch on the end of the bolt will quickly determine if the
bolt is hardened or not. *Reliance on published data is no guarantee
that the bolt is one or the other.


I'd be interested in the source of this claim that *any* brake bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened


(with the same caveat in re "experience").


would you prefer a softened pivot bolt?


Irrelevant.


Still waiting for the source for your claim that brake bolts are


a) "chromoly"; and
b) hardened.


Perhaps that wont be too long for you, he's dead. *At least one of the
sets of weinmann brakes I had had a *hardened and plated, if not
chromoly, cenytre bolt, I couldn't sink a dot punch with a normal
strike. * These were likely the 500 with QR or the 405, a pure racing
set. *Absolutely spot on brakes (405) as long as the rubber wasn't too
old. *I have a feeling that these were considered, along with Carerra
to be at least the equal of Campag's Gran sport and Record models in
terms of performance. *To claim that the bolt is in an annealed state
is ridiculous for a quality item. *The bolt must have some temper to
suit its purpose.


So, we've gone from

a) Shimano bolts are "chromoly" and hardened; to
b) some brake bolts are "chromoly" and hardened; to
c) a guy who's now dead told you something a long time ago about brake
bolts being either "chomoly" or hardened (or both), and you had one once
that you don't know if it was "chomoly" or plated, and you were unable to
make a mark on it with a punch, so you are sure it was hardened.

(That you expected to tell the particular composition of a steel just by
looking at it somehow does not surprise me.)

I just went in the box of bits and took a file to the ends of 16 brake
bolts from ten different manufacturers. *Three of those were Weinmann (an
Alpha, a 570 Top, and a Vainquer 999).

Not one of those 16 had a brake bolt that the file did not easily cut. *

Now, of course, we (at least those of us with some modicum of technical
knowledge) know that "hard" and "chromloy" are not specific terms; hardness
being a widely varying quality, and "chromoly" ususally referring to any of
a number of steels...

...but your claim, such as it is and absent any further suppport, can
safely be filed with the ones of most cyclists having exceeded 60 miles an
hour, qr skewers never having cut threads, and diesel engines being defined
as having no valves.


with knobs on.
 




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