Dutch v Americaanse pickuptank-wagen

"john B." wrote in message
news
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:28:58 -0800 (PST), James
wrote:

On Feb 13, 6:51 am, Chalo wrote:
DougC wrote:

James wrote:

Some Jeep Wrangler owners actually use theirs outside the city
limits
and off the bitumen.

It's a daring maneuver these days. The manufacturer stopped putting
real
off-road suspensions (solid axles/leaf springs) on them in the
mid-1980's.

If you want a capable off-roading vehicle in the USA, you're basically
looking at vehicles at least three decades old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hu...lt_terrain.jpg

The US Army does a lot of dumb stuff, but using coil sprung four-wheel
independent suspension on their general purpose vehicle seems to have
worked out for them.

The concept has merit, however the execution in civilian 4x4s is not
often as reliable as a solid axle.

Ford Territory AWD (pussy 4wd) has a habit of dropping a wheel, even
without torture!

http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car-forum...px?t=2&tid=726

JS.

And what civilian 4x4 is a serious off road vehicle, as in not doing a
thing to it and entering in the Baja?

SVT Raptor. Duh.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:12:41 -0800 (PST), James
wrote:

On Feb 13, 11:28*am, john B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:28:58 -0800 (PST), James



wrote:
On Feb 13, 6:51 am, Chalo wrote:
DougC wrote:

James wrote:

Some Jeep Wrangler owners actually use theirs outside the city limits
and off the bitumen.

It's a daring maneuver these days. The manufacturer stopped putting real
off-road suspensions (solid axles/leaf springs) on them in the mid-1980's.

If you want a capable off-roading vehicle in the USA, you're basically
looking at vehicles at least three decades old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hu...lt_terrain.jpg

The US Army does a lot of dumb stuff, but using coil sprung four-wheel
independent suspension on their general purpose vehicle seems to have
worked out for them.

The concept has merit, however the execution in civilian 4x4s is not
often as reliable as a solid axle.

Ford Territory AWD (pussy 4wd) has a habit of dropping a wheel, even
without torture!

http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car-forum...px?t=2&tid=726

JS.

And what civilian 4x4 is a serious off road vehicle, as in not doing a
thing to it and entering in the Baja?

A good question. I'd love to see a civilian vehicle class at Baja or
in the Dakar. Drive slower ;-)

JS.

Not having entered in either I do not know for sure but I believe that
in the Baja, at least, you can, or could, enter anything you wanted to
and in the very early days people did enter essentially stock dirt
bikes (don't know about cars). Usually the next year, if you saw them,
they had something that looked very little like what they had entered
the year before.... other then that it still had two wheels :-)

Frankly any car company that tried to market a real race car, of what
ever flavor, would go broke in a hurry. A real, purpose built, race
car is not something you want for hauling the little league around, or
taking your girlfriend to look at the moon.

On 2/13/2011 6:28 AM, john B. slocomb wrote:
[...]
Frankly any car company that tried to market a real race car, of what
ever flavor, would go broke in a hurry. A real, purpose built, race
car is not something you want for hauling the little league around, or
taking your girlfriend to look at the moon.


There have been a few, but targeted at small volume niche markets, and
often purchased by collectors who have no plans to use them as daily
drivers.

Returning to cycling, many riders *do* purchase bicycles intending for
racing, even though they are not racers. In most cases, they would be
better served by something else.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 02/13/2011 08:20 AM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 2/13/2011 6:28 AM, john B. slocomb wrote:
[...]
Frankly any car company that tried to market a real race car, of what
ever flavor, would go broke in a hurry. A real, purpose built, race
car is not something you want for hauling the little league around, or
taking your girlfriend to look at the moon.


There have been a few, but targeted at small volume niche markets, and
often purchased by collectors who have no plans to use them as daily
drivers.

Returning to cycling, many riders *do* purchase bicycles intending for
racing, even though they are not racers. In most cases, they would be
better served by something else.


Depends on what you consider a "real race car." A Miata, say, is
competitive in various SCCA classes and yet is popular among the public
at large. Heck, my mom has one, and she is the epitome of "not a racer."

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Feb 11, 11:04*am, landotter wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeJ-d...&feature=feedf

This is merely jealousy, antidemocratic and anti-capitalist
propaganda. The outrage encouraged by government officials in the
Netherlands prevents Dodge motors to have a fair chance to compete in
the auto market and sell its products. It is also against true
democracy and individualism just like in the good ol' usa where people
can freely express themselves with their vehicles. It is clear that in
Holland people don't have choices. Either you drive a little commie
car, or you are an outcast. Finally, what the hell are all those
bicycles doing on the road? Those chicks got what they deserved and
cause a driver to go into a spin and almost kill himself in an effort
to not hit them.They should have been prosecuted, arrested and they
should have taken a course where they learn that bicycles belong on
the sidewalks.

Allowing bicycles on the road prevents the automakers from selling
their products and creating jobs, therefore destroying the world
economies. It is clear that Holland has chosen to go the way of Maoist
china with bicycles and no cars. Thank god that China has become a
capitalist empire and that they are now millions of cars on the road.

On Feb 13, 9:37*am, " wrote:
On Feb 11, 11:04*am, landotter wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeJ-d...&feature=feedf

This is merely jealousy, antidemocratic and anti-capitalist
propaganda. The outrage encouraged by government officials in the
Netherlands prevents Dodge motors to have a fair chance to compete in
the auto market and sell its products. It is also against true
democracy and individualism just like in the good ol' usa where people
can freely express themselves with their vehicles. It is clear that in
Holland people don't have choices. Either you drive a little commie
car, or you are an outcast. *Finally, what the hell are all those
bicycles doing on the road? Those chicks got what they deserved and
cause a driver to go into a spin and almost kill himself in an effort
to not hit them.They should have been prosecuted, arrested and they
should have taken a course where they learn that bicycles belong on
the sidewalks.

Allowing bicycles on the road prevents the automakers from selling
their products and creating jobs, therefore destroying the world
economies. It is clear that Holland has chosen to go the way of Maoist
china with bicycles and no cars. Thank god that China has become a
capitalist empire and that they are now millions of cars on the road.


Here here, liberty only comes with the loving fists of corporatism.
And speaking of which, Atlas Shrugged coming to theaters soon. I bet
you could stand outside and sell a lot of gold bars!

On 13/02/2011 00:28, john B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:28:58 -0800 (PST), James
wrote:

On Feb 13, 6:51 am, wrote:
DougC wrote:

James wrote:

Some Jeep Wrangler owners actually use theirs outside the city limits
and off the bitumen.

It's a daring maneuver these days. The manufacturer stopped putting real
off-road suspensions (solid axles/leaf springs) on them in the mid-1980's.

If you want a capable off-roading vehicle in the USA, you're basically
looking at vehicles at least three decades old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hu...lt_terrain.jpg

The US Army does a lot of dumb stuff, but using coil sprung four-wheel
independent suspension on their general purpose vehicle seems to have
worked out for them.

The concept has merit, however the execution in civilian 4x4s is not
often as reliable as a solid axle.

Ford Territory AWD (pussy 4wd) has a habit of dropping a wheel, even
without torture!

http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car-forum...px?t=2&tid=726

JS.

And what civilian 4x4 is a serious off road vehicle, as in not doing a
thing to it and entering in the Baja

http://www.bowler-offroad.com

Well, it's civilian :-)

On 2/13/2011 7:32 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 02/13/2011 08:20 AM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 2/13/2011 6:28 AM, john B. slocomb wrote:
[...]
Frankly any car company that tried to market a real race car, of what
ever flavor, would go broke in a hurry. A real, purpose built, race
car is not something you want for hauling the little league around, or
taking your girlfriend to look at the moon.


There have been a few, but targeted at small volume niche markets, and
often purchased by collectors who have no plans to use them as daily
drivers.

Returning to cycling, many riders *do* purchase bicycles intending for
racing, even though they are not racers. In most cases, they would be
better served by something else.


Depends on what you consider a "real race car." A Miata, say, is
competitive in various SCCA classes and yet is popular among the public
at large. Heck, my mom has one, and she is the epitome of "not a racer."

nate


http://www.khulsey.com/stockphotography/ferrari_250_gto_1962.jpeg
http://www.autofiends.com/wp-content/gallery/74-porsche-rs-homage/P5303504.jpg

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 2/13/2011 9:37 AM, wrote:
On Feb 11, 11:04 am, wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeJ-d...&feature=feedf

This is merely jealousy, antidemocratic and anti-capitalist
propaganda. The outrage encouraged by government officials in the
Netherlands prevents Dodge motors to have a fair chance to compete in
the auto market and sell its products. It is also against true
democracy and individualism just like in the good ol' usa where people
can freely express themselves with their vehicles. It is clear that in
Holland people don't have choices. Either you drive a little commie
car, or you are an outcast. Finally, what the hell are all those
bicycles doing on the road? Those chicks got what they deserved and
cause a driver to go into a spin and almost kill himself in an effort
to not hit them.They should have been prosecuted, arrested and they
should have taken a course where they learn that bicycles belong on
the sidewalks.

Allowing bicycles on the road prevents the automakers from selling
their products and creating jobs, therefore destroying the world
economies. It is clear that Holland has chosen to go the way of Maoist
china with bicycles and no cars. Thank god that China has become a
capitalist empire and that they are now millions of cars on the road.

+1x10^100

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 2/13/2011 9:51 AM, Clive George wrote:
On 13/02/2011 00:28, john B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:28:58 -0800 (PST), James
wrote:

On Feb 13, 6:51 am, wrote:
DougC wrote:

James wrote:

Some Jeep Wrangler owners actually use theirs outside the city limits
and off the bitumen.

It's a daring maneuver these days. The manufacturer stopped putting
real
off-road suspensions (solid axles/leaf springs) on them in the
mid-1980's.

If you want a capable off-roading vehicle in the USA, you're basically
looking at vehicles at least three decades old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hu...lt_terrain.jpg

The US Army does a lot of dumb stuff, but using coil sprung four-wheel
independent suspension on their general purpose vehicle seems to have
worked out for them.

The concept has merit, however the execution in civilian 4x4s is not
often as reliable as a solid axle.

Ford Territory AWD (pussy 4wd) has a habit of dropping a wheel, even
without torture!

http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car-forum...px?t=2&tid=726

JS.

And what civilian 4x4 is a serious off road vehicle, as in not doing a
thing to it and entering in the Baja

http://www.bowler-offroad.com

Well, it's civilian :-)

Or
http://www.tatratrucksusa.com/Images/Tatra-815-4x4-Hlavak-170505-01.jpg.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.