A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Racing
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 25th 03, 02:14 PM
Sven Mischkies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

Jan needs every second he can get - so wouldn't it be sensible for his
team to try to let flat stages end in mass sprints?

Erik needs every point he can get for the green jersey, even if he says
he doesn't care about it - so wouldn't it be sensible for his team to
try to let flat stages end in mass sprints?

Both teams have nothing to lose anymore. Bianchi anyway, Telekom's
Vinokurov should be save as third, too.

So can anyone here explain why these teams do nothing?


Ciao,
SM
--
The Sunday Times about 'The Two Towers':
'The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of
creatures - orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler...'
Ads
  #2  
Old July 25th 03, 02:26 PM
trg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

True you can make up points and seconds in mass sprints, but you can also
lose them. And if your team does all the work, then you weaken yourself when
it comes time to sprint against your opponents. There's a good chance you
could end up hurting rather than helping your cause.


"Sven Mischkies" a écrit dans le message news:
...
Jan needs every second he can get - so wouldn't it be sensible for his
team to try to let flat stages end in mass sprints?

Erik needs every point he can get for the green jersey, even if he says
he doesn't care about it - so wouldn't it be sensible for his team to
try to let flat stages end in mass sprints?

Both teams have nothing to lose anymore. Bianchi anyway, Telekom's
Vinokurov should be save as third, too.

So can anyone here explain why these teams do nothing?


Ciao,
SM
--
The Sunday Times about 'The Two Towers':
'The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of
creatures - orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler...'



  #3  
Old July 25th 03, 03:27 PM
trg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

Of course they have something to lose- points and seconds. They obviously
feel they'd rather put their money on the TT and last stage, rather then
weaken their teams by controlling the break and have less energy to lead out
their stars in the bunch sprint. Remember, it would be Zabel against a fresh
McGee and Cook, or McEwen and his leadout. Or Ullrich against
Hincapie/Eki/Armstrong.

"Sven Mischkies" a écrit dans le message news:
. ..
trg wrote:

True you can make up points and seconds in mass sprints, but you can

also
lose them. And if your team does all the work, then you weaken yourself

when
it comes time to sprint against your opponents. There's a good chance

you
could end up hurting rather than helping your cause.



Jan has nothing to lose and Erik, too. And both do not need help of
their team in sprints - they need the help only to get there.


Ciao,
SM
--
The Sunday Times about 'The Two Towers':
'The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of
creatures - orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler...'



  #4  
Old July 25th 03, 03:43 PM
trg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

You also have to consider that what is important is the relative differences
between the riders, not their absolute totals. So if Zabel comes across the
line 10th and Cooke 11th, it might be the same gain as if Zabel were 3nd and
Cooke 4th (depending on the actual bonifications given for the various
times). So again, why tire out your team when you can get the same result
without losing energy compared to your opponents?

"Sven Mischkies" a écrit dans le message news:
. ..
trg wrote:

True you can make up points and seconds in mass sprints, but you can

also
lose them. And if your team does all the work, then you weaken yourself

when
it comes time to sprint against your opponents. There's a good chance

you
could end up hurting rather than helping your cause.



Jan has nothing to lose and Erik, too. And both do not need help of
their team in sprints - they need the help only to get there.


Ciao,
SM
--
The Sunday Times about 'The Two Towers':
'The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of
creatures - orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler...'



  #6  
Old July 25th 03, 03:47 PM
JTN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

because they dont have any.....

they do have a couple of guys that are also rans though....maybe if they win
a stage they could get more publicity.....


  #7  
Old July 25th 03, 03:50 PM
Gerrit Stolte
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:47:43 -0600, "JTN"
wrote:

because they dont have any.....

they do have a couple of guys that are also rans though....maybe if they win
a stage they could get more publicity.....


How could Bianchi get more publicity? I mean, they have won more
publicity than they could've dreamed for. Before the TdF, nobody knew
wether Ullrich would be competitive. Now, the sponsors are lining up,
bringing the team and Ullrich in a very good position to start building
a new team.

Gerrit

  #8  
Old July 25th 03, 06:27 PM
Sven Mischkies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

Gerrit Stolte wrote:

After getting two seconds closer to Lance in the first intermediate
sprint, Lance wouldn't have allowed him to take more in the 2nd one.



Do you think they _allowed_ him those two seconds? Why should they do
that? If they were not able to stop them this time maybe he could have
slipped away on other occasions, too?


As
for sprinting for stage victories? The top sprinters would make minced
meat of Ullrich, who would only risk a crash without a chance of gaining
a single second.



I know that it is very unlikely and somewhat risky. But I do not think
that it is unlikelier than winning the ITT by more than 1:04.


Erik needs every point he can get for the green jersey, even if he says
he doesn't care about it - so wouldn't it be sensible for his team to
try to let flat stages end in mass sprints?


Errr. Wether or not they end in mass sprints, Zabel obviously hasn't the
final speed to beat his opponents for the jersey.



Well, he beat Cooke yesterday and today. If he sprinted in all sprints
he could be in green already.


Ciao,
SM
--
The Sunday Times about 'The Two Towers':
'The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of
creatures - orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler...'
  #9  
Old July 25th 03, 07:32 PM
Gerrit Stolte
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:27:19 +0200, (Sven
Mischkies) wrote:

Gerrit Stolte wrote:

After getting two seconds closer to Lance in the first intermediate
sprint, Lance wouldn't have allowed him to take more in the 2nd one.



Do you think they _allowed_ him those two seconds?


He toook them by surprise. Nobody expected him to chase down for those
seconds. This won't happen anymore.

Why should they do
that? If they were not able to stop them this time maybe he could have
slipped away on other occasions, too?


Are you only following the TdF when Ullrich is successful? What you are
talking about is pure speculation. Ullrich couldn't win more, because he
wasn't following the group. Had he done so, there would have been no
breakaway, as USPS would have closed the gap *very* fast.

As
for sprinting for stage victories? The top sprinters would make minced
meat of Ullrich, who would only risk a crash without a chance of gaining
a single second.



I know that it is very unlikely and somewhat risky. But I do not think
that it is unlikelier than winning the ITT by more than 1:04.


Well, he beat Cooke yesterday and today. If he sprinted in all sprints
he could be in green already.


If he sprints in all sprints, Cooke et al. would also do. None of them
has participated in all sprints. As was clear in today's and yesterday's
finish, Zabel doesn't have enough final speed.
  #10  
Old July 25th 03, 07:48 PM
Sven Mischkies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why don't Bianchi and Telekom ride for their stars?

Gerrit Stolte wrote:

Why should they do
that? If they were not able to stop them this time maybe he could have
slipped away on other occasions, too?


Are you only following the TdF when Ullrich is successful? What you are
talking about is pure speculation. Ullrich couldn't win more, because he
wasn't following the group. Had he done so, there would have been no
breakaway, as USPS would have closed the gap *very* fast.



Not slipping away on a break - that's impossible, of course, except
maybe VERY close to the end of a stage (of course USPS would have to be
caught sleeping, but hey - nothing is impossible ), but slipping away
to gain a few sprint points and seconds.


Ciao,
SM
--
The Sunday Times about 'The Two Towers':
'The darkness of this film comes not just from the hideous collection of
creatures - orcs, Uruk-hai, wargs and Liv Tyler...'
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2020 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.