Ebikes on performance rides?

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

Never done one but there is a group that does. They call them "ultra
marathons". It seems to take in the neighborhood of 30 hours for most
to run 100 miles, but the record is 11:19:18. Set on a track, I
believe.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

Given that an e-bike is a bicycle with a motor wouldn't a bicycle with
a different sort of motor. an internal combustion motor for example,
be equally welcome :-?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 10/29/2019 6:12 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

Given that an e-bike is a bicycle with a motor wouldn't a bicycle with
a different sort of motor. an internal combustion motor for example,
be equally welcome :-?
--
cheers,

John B.


Sure if it self-identifies as a bicycle.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 3:01:29 PM UTC, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

That puts me of the Joe Palooka comic strip, where Joe always ran
accompanied by Knobby Walsh on a bicycle.

I've never done a ten-foot run, let alone a hundred miles -- I don't
know how to run.

I figured it out fifty or sixty years ago when my niece had toddled
into the road and we saw a notorious speeder coming in a cloud of
dust. But I had no idea how I'd done it.

Nowadays, I don't even nursewalk.

(In the twenties, nurses were forbidden to run lest the sight give a
patient a heart attack. They learned to walk very, very fast without
looking panicked, and I learned from Mom.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

I once heard someone described as "an idiot who runs in police stations". Apparently there is no faster way to become a gun statistic.

AJ

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 18:21:01 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/29/2019 6:12 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

Given that an e-bike is a bicycle with a motor wouldn't a bicycle with
a different sort of motor. an internal combustion motor for example,
be equally welcome :-?
--
cheers,

John B.


Sure if it self-identifies as a bicycle.

Do you remember the "Whizzer"? Still in business although I think that
they no longer build either the bikes or motors.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 10/29/2019 3:55 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:33:11 PM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Let's try for a bicycling related post.

I little controversy has popped up in our bike club. How do you treat a
guy on an ebike?'

I'm not talking about the slower social rides. We have some long-term
members who, through age or health problems, may someday soon need an
ebike to cruise with friends, doing 12 or 13 mph for 25 miles just for
the scenery and sociability. I don't think anyone's going to begrudge
them a little e-help, so to speak.

But one guy has been showing up for "A" rides and other suffer-fests on
a performance oriented ebike. He's riding with guys that train seriously
all year, doing "Hill Repeats" rides, interval training and roller or
trainer work all winter. Word is those real "A" riders aren't very
accepting.

I have my views on the matter, which I expressed to another club member
last night. But I'm curious what's happening in other areas, what the
attitudes are there, and what this group's readers think.


I’d say if it’s the social groups etc then fine we have a chap who does
such, but with the balls out racers? That seems to be missing the point of
that sort of riding which is racecraft and such.

It would be a bit mute since in the uk the cut off is 15mph rather than
20mph so a E-Bike would struggle with some of the faster groups, any how.

Roger Merriman

Since I made the original post in this thread, I got into a discussion with
some other cyclists in another state. (I'm traveling.) They complained about
ebike riders blasting by at over 25 mph on rail-trails.

Even 18 mph (the U.S. limit for power assist with type 1 & 2 ebikes) seems
excessive to me. If you're weak enough to need power assist, you should be
content with Britain's 15 mph or even less. I'd say, pick a ride where that
speed works for the group, don't pick a performance ride.

Regarding performance rides: An analogy may be distance running, another sport
where the mindset is training, testing oneself, & extending ones limits. We
have an avid runner* in the family who runs with groups of friends. But I think
those runners would think it weird if someone joined their daily training runs
using roller blades, a bicycle, an electric bike etc.

(* Anybody here ever do a 100 mile run?)

- Frank Krygowski

Never done one but there is a group that does. They call them "ultra
marathons". It seems to take in the neighborhood of 30 hours for most
to run 100 miles, but the record is 11:19:18. Set on a track, I
believe.

The Western States 100 has been a thing for over 40 years.
https://www.wser.org/

The course is an unpaved (I think, check the site) trail, the time limit
is 30 hours. The 2019 winner's time was 14:09:28.

I'm in Joy's camp, I don't know how to run, so this is unimaginable to
me, but I've met plenty of non-cyclists who can't imagine a triple
century - as in "how is that humanly possible?" Besides, hominids are
evolved specifically to run long distances.

Mark J.

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 5:02:38 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 12:33:32 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 2:47:34 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 7:53:35 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Well if our oldest member who has a hard time keeping up with us even at modest speeds shows up with an electric assisted bike we would welcome it. We like to have hime around.

Lou

A decently humane attitude, Lou. Congratulations to you and your group.

The problem with the local "performance riders" is that they ride to the garage on the edge of town and sit on the chairs outside watching cars go by. They're a bunch of fashion victims with zero conversation except how much their latest components cost. I wouldn't let them ride with us before I electrified one of my bikes, and I won't let them ride with us after I electrified one of my bikes. One has to draw the line somewhere.

The local "performance riders" around here don't ride to a garage on the edge of town and sit around and watch the cars go by. In fact, I've been on a lot of performance rides (without quotes) and never once sat around a garage. Is that an Irish thing?

Don't be so defensive, Jay. I wasn't accusing you of diddling the teenage paralegal. I was talking about cafe racers about 6K miles from Portland. But surely you have cafe racers, too, in such a trendy place as Portland.

Posing in lycra is one way of excluding those in the out-group. Which brings me to the wretched Krygowski, who started this thread. If Franki-boy were permitted to be in charge of any cycling group, he'd progressively -- heh-heh -- exclude everyone until only he, Franki-boy, was left, crowing on a toxic dungheap.

Andre Jute
I knew Otto Skorzeny

My rides are usually 40-75 miles, usually with a single stop, but sometimes without, usually with at least 2,000 ft of climbing. Around here the "performance riders" put in 20-25 miles with an average speed 4 mph faster than me until they get a heart attack, because they are unaware that the human body only has so many heartbeats. Then most of them quit riding.

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 7:13:51 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:54:51 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

We can often be found at a pub with a Guinness after the ride though.

From a bottle?

Andre Jute
I've been thrown out of better clubs than this -- Groucho Marx

Our local pub has Guinness on tap and the appropriate heart attack food - Fish and Chips, Shepard's Pie and the like. Also 18 TVs around the walls with anything that even pretends to be a sport on. I go there on a warm night and sit outside away from all of the stupid noise. This last time a couple of loud mouthed young men were siting at the next table over. It took everything I had to keep from telling them that they sounded like Franks and his Gang of Four - stupid.

On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 09:36:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 7:13:51 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 1:54:51 AM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

We can often be found at a pub with a Guinness after the ride though.

From a bottle?

Andre Jute
I've been thrown out of better clubs than this -- Groucho Marx

Our local pub has Guinness on tap and the appropriate heart attack food - Fish and Chips, Shepard's Pie and the like. Also 18 TVs around the walls with anything that even pretends to be a sport on. I go there on a warm night and sit outside away from all of the stupid noise. This last time a couple of loud mouthed young men were siting at the next table over. It took everything I had to keep from telling them that they sounded like Franks and his Gang of Four - stupid.

Gee, with all the threats of physical attack you have made on this
site I'm amazed that you just didn't just toss them out into the
street. Imagine, disturbing the mighty Tom.

Or are your threats here simply the rants and raving of a senile old
man who believes himself safe from retaliation because he's hiding out
in some California slum?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 4:30:31 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 5:02:38 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 21, 2019 at 12:33:32 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 2:47:34 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 7:53:35 AM UTC+1, wrote:

Well if our oldest member who has a hard time keeping up with us even at modest speeds shows up with an electric assisted bike we would welcome it. We like to have hime around.

Lou

A decently humane attitude, Lou. Congratulations to you and your group.

The problem with the local "performance riders" is that they ride to the garage on the edge of town and sit on the chairs outside watching cars go by. They're a bunch of fashion victims with zero conversation except how much their latest components cost. I wouldn't let them ride with us before I electrified one of my bikes, and I won't let them ride with us after I electrified one of my bikes. One has to draw the line somewhere.

The local "performance riders" around here don't ride to a garage on the edge of town and sit around and watch the cars go by. In fact, I've been on a lot of performance rides (without quotes) and never once sat around a garage. Is that an Irish thing?

Don't be so defensive, Jay. I wasn't accusing you of diddling the teenage paralegal. I was talking about cafe racers about 6K miles from Portland. But surely you have cafe racers, too, in such a trendy place as Portland.

Posing in lycra is one way of excluding those in the out-group. Which brings me to the wretched Krygowski, who started this thread. If Franki-boy were permitted to be in charge of any cycling group, he'd progressively -- heh-heh -- exclude everyone until only he, Franki-boy, was left, crowing on a toxic dungheap.

Andre Jute
I knew Otto Skorzeny

My rides are usually 40-75 miles, usually with a single stop, but sometimes without, usually with at least 2,000 ft of climbing. Around here the "performance riders" put in 20-25 miles with an average speed 4 mph faster than me until they get a heart attack, because they are unaware that the human body only has so many heartbeats. Then most of them quit riding.

I came to cycling late in life and was unable to learn cadence control, so I controlled my output, and still do, by my heart rate. It is an eminently satisfactory method of regulating one's exercise. My Polar H78 belt works with my iPhone to give an audio report every kilometre, so my attention isn't even distracted from the road or conversation with riding chums to check my heart rate. You can set the reporting cycle to whatever distance or time you want, but I've been doing it so long, it's become natural for me to know my heart rate without even glancing at the display, just like a longtime cyclist knows his pedalling cadence to within close margins after decades of cycling.

Andre Jute
There's always a way to do the job right