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#11
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote: On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 7:51:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. That guy is just such a doof it's impossible to take him seriously even when what he's saying is not incorrect. Jan's first language is German, which influences how he writes. He's prone to sounding dogmatic even when he's accommodating other viewpoints. He seems genuinely interested in being correct in his information, although he has tended to iterate his way there. Like Grant Petersen and Jobst, he seems to have a somewhat outsized influence given his niche market share. Like those two, his passion for and belief in what he's doing seem to make a difference. But he's nowhere near as "encycleopedic" as Jobst or Sheldon Brown, and he's a lot more specifically focused than Grant. His magazine is beautifully produced and his tires have been very favorably viewed by all the people I know who have used them. I can't bring myself to spend $70 on a bike tire. I did use his braze-ons and straddle wire hangers for Mafac centerpulls when I had a custom bike built; very well made products. His Rene Herse cranks look beautiful, too. His history of Rene Herse is quite the tome. Apparently he's also got a doctorate in geology. And more to the point, perhaps, is that he has been able to turn his passion into making a living. Many of us never do that. On the flip side I do find his writing style often irritating and I could go a long while without reading the word "optimized" as it relates to bike designs. He does finally seem to be moving a bit past 1950s French constructeur bikes as the ultimate pinnacle of bicycle design. That's good. |
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#12
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:49:50 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers, groan And here we go again... ;-) |
#13
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On 3/14/2017 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) Read _The Bicycle Wheel_ by Jobst Brandt. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On 15/03/17 01:49, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) Burn him! |
#15
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 9:16:58 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:49:50 +0700, John B wrote: On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers, groan And here we go again... ;-) The conversation always reminds me of The Boonie Book. https://www.amazon.com/Boonie-Book-R.../dp/0912656174 We had a copy when I was a kid and I read it over and over and practiced the tricks and maintained my hodaka as instructed. The author, Carl Shipman, who also wrote a series of books about cameras (How to use Canon SLR Cameras, How to use Nikon SLR Cameras, ...) had a very paternalistic writing style and sounded very knowledgeable. He went into discussions of stuff like rake and trail which were very interesting. He also claimed, in his typical paternalistic and reassuring way, that tying and soldering spokes makes a stronger wheel. He also explained, accompanied by a series of drawings, that while a wooden-spoke wagon wheel stands on the bottom spoke, a tangenitally-laced wire-spoke wheel hangs from the top two. |
#16
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Jan Heine on wheel building
r
... He seems genuinely interested in being correct in his information, although he has tended to iterate his way there. LOL Thank you I did in fact laugh out loud at this |
#17
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On 3/14/2017 6:05 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 5:49:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) Are you -sure- you want to say that on this group? Pop yerselves a bowl of popcorn, sit back and watch the show. Mark J. |
#18
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:11:01 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote: On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers, John B. It's a bit asymmetrical. If the rim was very "floppy", then only one spoke at a time on the bottom would be detensioned, but a large number of upper spokes would share the increase. As the rim gets stiffer and stiffer, then the detensioning of the lower spokes gets more uniform and smaller. In the ultimate case of a perfectly stiff rim, then the loss of tension in the lower spikes would be perfectly and symmetrically compensated by an increase in tension of the upper spokes. So you can leave less upward margin in your spoke tension than you have to leave on the downward side. With a large diameter rim and large hub width, the non-drive side can become detention. While the one spoke doesn't have tension on it, it tends to flex the spoke eventually leading to failure. Sheldon Brown suggests the non-drive side be radial so it can't be unloaded. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial |
#19
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:19:01 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote: On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 9:16:58 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:49:50 +0700, John B wrote: On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: https://janheine.wordpress.com Today's blog post is about building strong wheels. He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers, groan And here we go again... ;-) The conversation always reminds me of The Boonie Book. https://www.amazon.com/Boonie-Book-R.../dp/0912656174 We had a copy when I was a kid and I read it over and over and practiced the tricks and maintained my hodaka as instructed. The author, Carl Shipman, who also wrote a series of books about cameras (How to use Canon SLR Cameras, How to use Nikon SLR Cameras, ...) had a very paternalistic writing style and sounded very knowledgeable. He went into discussions of stuff like rake and trail which were very interesting. He also claimed, in his typical paternalistic and reassuring way, that tying and soldering spokes makes a stronger wheel. He also explained, accompanied by a series of drawings, that while a wooden-spoke wagon wheel stands on the bottom spoke, a tangenitally-laced wire-spoke wheel hangs from the top two. With a perfectly rigid rim, that would be closer to correct although not entirely. In a wheel in which the spokes have no tension, it would be even closer to being correct. Unusable, but closer to being correct. |
#20
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Jan Heine on wheel building
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:57:52 -0700, Mark J.
wrote: Pop yerselves a bowl of popcorn, sit back and watch the show. Would have been a much better show a few years back... |
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