Google tracked his bike ride past a burglarized home. That made him a suspect.

"anonlinuxuser" wrote


o Interesting story about geofence warrants increasingly being used on innocent people
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/bqITN_pClYA

Hopefully, and someday, that will be made illegal.


Yes. On the other hand, the man is using an Android
phone and leaving it turned on, so he already doesn't
care about privacy. To top it off, he was using an app
to count the miles he rode on his bike and Google was
tracking that. So if he had the hassle of being considered
a suspect I'd call that an idiocy tax. It's hard to have
sympathy for such sheer ninny-headedness. I suppose
people tracking their steps inaccurately on their iPhone
are more stupid and wasting even more money, but feeling
a need to record your bicycle riding, and signing up for
spyware to do it, is pretty darn dumb.

A good way to handle this is something I do.

1. Get a burner flipphone for calls/calling. No google/fasebook tracking on it. Set it up as described below.

2. Get a burner smartphone at a department store (Walmart) with/using a monthly charge card. In the states, you will have to go to the burner phone's local store to initiate the phone. I just did this at AT&T. They asked for my name, address, etc, all of which I gave false information. Now your smartphone is untraceable to you and you can run all you foolish, baby phone toys on it. The cops can get all the google/facebook tracking information they want, but will not be able to trace it to your name. You probably shouldn't have your flip phone on while your smartphone is being used because they might correlate the two being linked, always being at the same place. Do not fall for AT&T's attempt to get you to recharge your phone time using a credit card over the phone. Always purchase a new charge card (I use the $35 for 3 months card).

3. Something else I did. I purchased the burner phone at Walmart one year before I began to use it. Walmart takes pictures of everyone now and it is believed that they keep them one year. This is probably a much shorter retention time when purchased at a convenience store.

"anonymous" wrote

| 2. Get a burner smartphone at a department store (Walmart) with/using a
monthly charge card. In the states, you will have to go to the burner
phone's local store to initiate the phone. I just did this at AT&T. They
asked for my name, address, etc, all of which I gave false information. Now
your smartphone is untraceable to you and you can run all you foolish, baby
phone toys on it. The cops can get all the google/facebook tracking
information they want, but will not be able to trace it to your name. You
probably shouldn't have your flip phone on while your smartphone is being
used because they might correlate the two being linked, always being at the
same place. Do not fall for AT&T's attempt to get you to recharge your
phone time using a credit card over the phone. Always purchase a new charge
card (I use the $35 for 3 months card).
|

You can't hide your identity from me. I can tell
by your phone buying habits that you're Jason
Bourne.

I don't get the point of buying an anon phone
and still using a computer phone. If it's on,
you're trackable. As with browsers, you might be
technically anonymous, but if a dozen companies
have a record of your location and activities, it
would be naive to think they're not connecting
the dots.

I find it interesting that you assume everyone
would still need a computer phone, anyway. I have
a Tracphone. $20 every 3 months. I leave it turned
off but have it in case I need to make or receive
a call. The nice thing with leaving it off is that it
rarely needs charging. Maybe once every couple
of months. I actually find that I don't use it much.
I've got about 3,000 minutes saved up. If someone
needs to reach me they can call my landline or send
an email or send a letter. (But I do find that an
increasing number of people find it difficult to grasp
that they won't be able to reach me with an LOL at
any time, day or night. Texting has become a kind
of epidemic.)

| 3. Something else I did. I purchased the burner phone at Walmart one year
before I began to use it. Walmart takes pictures of everyone now and it is
believed that they keep them one year. This is probably a much shorter
retention time when purchased at a convenience store.
|

This is all great if you're robbing banks, but I
don't see the point otherwise. You've apparently
got a computer phone that's tracking you
everywhere, anyway. And that means Apple/Google
and dozens of app makers and their datamining
partners have that information.

To my mind the whole system is a problem. We'd
complain if the phone company recorded our calls
and sold the data, so why should we allow Apple/Google
to do the same. Why are the phones not controlled
by the FCC to prevent eavesdropping? Why isn't
Google heavily fined for allowing it? Why aren't they fined
for tricking people into giving them data? Why aren't app
makers and their partners jailed? We've developed
a culture where TVs and cars spy on you, and that's
become normal. It's nuts.

But it's also not all their fault. The average person
is using GPS, Waze, Uber, Facebook, Instagram, and
so on. Many young people don't see anything as spying.
They think of it as service. Even when Facebook decides
what they'll see on their feed, they comply with it like
a happy infant with a nipple in its mouth. It's bad enough
that people are too lazy to read a map, but so many of
these toys are just idiotic. Things like pedometers and
heart meters? They've already acknowledged the things
are not even accurate. I had a pedometer that I wore on
my belt when I was about 10 years old. Was it accurate?
I don't know. But by the time I reached 11 I could see that
it was silly. Now we have 60-year-olds who congratulate
themselves for taking charge of their fitness because they
ask their iPhone how many steps they've walked.

I find it interesting when I visit my millennial neice.
She's got the works: Several audible notifications for
various incoming communiques that buzz or beep regularly.
Three Echos that interrupt our conversation with inane
comments. She's surprisingly tolerant of the old uncle with
no phone or texting. But she does see it as an issue of being
old. For her there simply isn't any other way to live. To not
be constantly tracked... to not buy back her social
life from Facebook... would be like turning off your frig. It
just makes no sense to her.

On 09/03/2020 04.45, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 23:02:07 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Yes. On the other hand, the man is using an Android
phone and leaving it turned on, so he already doesn't
care about privacy.

Unfortunately, as usual, Mayayana's post is filled with MARKETING BS.
o Intelligent people don't believe only in what MARKETING feeds them.

Mobile device security researches discuss frank factual results
on hacking iOS & Android devices (i.e., not marketing bull****)
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/w3aEX2L4x8U/54qxrmbJCwAJ

*FACTS*!
o Not Marketing bull****.

Despite loud Apple's marketing of the mere _illusion_ of privacy...
o The fact is that privacy on Android is no different than on iOS.

There you go again with your monotheme. He said nothing about Apple, so
don't mix you hatred of Apple in this.

(it does not matter what mobile phone type you use: you can be tracked
in all cases).

What Mayayana said is basically true.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 08:56:01 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

I don't get the point of buying an anon phone
and still using a computer phone.

Mayayana is correct on this point.
o If you're using a smartphone, you're using a computer.

Unless you're a tech whiz (none of us are), you're trackable.

Even if you do manage to steal a burner phone unseen, at night, with no
cameras around, and then you use it to make your nefarious one call, you'd
better tape it to the bottom of a greyhound bus and get out of Dodge if you
don't want to be further tracked using it.

Since none of us are committing high crimes while using the phone, we don't
need that level of protection; where all we need is some intelligence.

It's rather easy to kill google on an unrooted Android phone, it turns out:
https://i.postimg.cc/d0Q1xWvp/killgoogle02.jpg

But there are a _lot_ of steps, unfortunately...
o But each of the steps is logical, sane, sensible, and, get this: easy.

For example, it's _stupid_ to own an Android phone and then upload your
neighbors' SSID information to Google every day. Turn that **** off.

It's also just as rude to upload your contacts to Google every day via sync
every time you use Gmail. Turn that **** off.

It's also just plain stupid to upload your calendar events to Google every
day. Turn that **** off.

I admit you need intelligence to set up a phone to be as private as we can
make it, but the steps, albeit myriad, are simple, e.g., permissions.
https://i.postimg.cc/q7m1Lf6y/permission13.jpg

But even real-time traffic can be obtained, with routing, with privacy!
https://i.postimg.cc/fRbSDSkj/traffic02.jpg

You just have to be intelligent about the Android phone setup steps.

For one, when it asks you to set up an account on the phone, skip that step
altogether; the Android phone has full functionality without the Google
account (unlike an iOS phone which requires the iCloud account for full
functionality).
o Why would anyone NEED to set up the Android OS to a Google Account?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0O0GLU0bFmw/DD095dJ3AQAJ

If you're on the Android/iOS newsgroups, you're aware of the privacy steps:

Just search for "privacy" in these public permanent web-searchable archives
o http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
o http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone
o http://misc.phone.mobile.iphone.narkive.com
o http://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com
--
Intelligent people make their decisions based on facts & not on Marketing.

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:28:45 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

What Mayayana said is basically true.

Hi Carlos,

You have to be intelligent and realize what Mayayana actually said:
"On the other hand, the man is using an Android phone
and leaving it turned on, so he already doesn't care about privacy. "

What on earth do you _think_ Mayayana was implying as the alternative?
o A Windows phone?

It's clear Mayayana fell for the MARKETING bull****...
o People who think iOS is more private fall for MARKETING bull****, Carlos.

Bull****, Carlos.
o I'm allergic to bull**** - particularly parroted MARKETING bull****.

You, and Mayayana, both know when you bull**** - I come down hard on you.
o Just as _you_ should come down hard on me if I ever bull**** you.

Deal?
o If I ever bull**** you, Carlos, I would _expect_ you to hit me hard.

Because I strive for 100% credibility Carlos.
o That means I know the facts - and I look askance at MARKETING bull****.

My peeve is too many morons _believe_ the Apple MARKETING bull****, Carlos.
o It's easily been proved iOS is no more private than Android. Period.

Facts.

I come down hard on FACTS - and on people who spout bull****.
o Most people seem to _believe_ the Apple MARKETING bull****.

And yet, I'm eminently logical, reasonable, and sensible.
o When it comes to ASSESSMENT of the facts, Carlos.

For example, Mayayana claimed the guy was an idiot, which I agreed was
basically true from the standpoint of what he did before he realized using
anything from Google is fraught with privacy holes.

My two-part message to folks is very simple:
a. Setting up (unrooted) Android for privacy merely takes intelligence
b. Believing iOS is (magically?) more private is not supported by facts

But as you're well aware, it's trivial to remove Google from an Android
phone, such that Google does _not_ get your tracking data, and yet, you
still have full functionality of the phone (which is privacy that is
impossible on iOS).

As nospam noted, it's far more difficult to remove your tracking data from
your cellular carrier, although it's trivial also (airplane mode) but then
you lose basic functionality of the phone.

But anyone who claims that iOS is somehow (magically?) more private than
Android is simply proving they fall prey to mere MARKETING bull****.

Let's be adults here and stick to the _facts_...
o Apple MARKETING is bull**** - and easily proven to be bull****, Carlos.

With facts.
--
Adults comprehend the difference between facts & mere MARKETING illusions.

On 3/8/20 9:02 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"anonlinuxuser" wrote

| o Interesting story about geofence warrants increasingly being used on
innocent people
|
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/bqITN_pClYA
|
| Hopefully, and someday, that will be made illegal.
|

Yes. On the other hand, the man is using an Android
phone and leaving it turned on, so he already doesn't
care about privacy. To top it off, he was using an app
to count the miles he rode on his bike and Google was
tracking that. So if he had the hassle of being considered
a suspect I'd call that an idiocy tax. It's hard to have
sympathy for such sheer ninny-headedness. I suppose
people tracking their steps [inaccurately] on their iPhone
are more stupid and wasting even more money, but feeling
a need to record your bicycle riding, and signing up for
spyware to do it, is pretty darn dumb.


I don't own any Google devices or software.
And who's idea was it to fund in the beginning of Google?
One of the three letter agencies. What a better way to spy on the public.
Hook n' Crook.

On 3/9/20 6:04 AM, anonymous wrote:

"anonlinuxuser" wrote


o Interesting story about geofence warrants increasingly being used on innocent people
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/bqITN_pClYA

Hopefully, and someday, that will be made illegal.


Yes. On the other hand, the man is using an Android
phone and leaving it turned on, so he already doesn't
care about privacy. To top it off, he was using an app
to count the miles he rode on his bike and Google was
tracking that. So if he had the hassle of being considered
a suspect I'd call that an idiocy tax. It's hard to have
sympathy for such sheer ninny-headedness. I suppose
people tracking their steps inaccurately on their iPhone
are more stupid and wasting even more money, but feeling
a need to record your bicycle riding, and signing up for
spyware to do it, is pretty darn dumb.

A good way to handle this is something I do.

1. Get a burner flipphone for calls/calling. No google/fasebook tracking on it. Set it up as described below.

2. Get a burner smartphone at a department store (Walmart) with/using a monthly charge card. In the states, you will have to go to the burner phone's local store to initiate the phone. I just did this at AT&T. They asked for my name, address, etc, all of which I gave false information. Now your smartphone is untraceable to you and you can run all you foolish, baby phone toys on it. The cops can get all the google/facebook tracking information they want, but will not be able to trace it to your name. You probably shouldn't have your flip phone on while your smartphone is being used because they might correlate the two being linked, always being at the same place. Do not fall for AT&T's attempt to get you to recharge your phone time using a credit card over the phone. Always purchase a new charge card (I use the $35 for 3 months card).

3. Something else I did. I purchased the burner phone at Walmart one year before I began to use it. Walmart takes pictures of everyone now and it is believed that they keep them one year. This is probably a much shorter retention time when purchased at a convenience store.


I don't own any cell phones of any kind.

"anonlinuxuser" wrote

| And who's idea was it to fund in the beginning of Google?
| One of the three letter agencies. What a better way to spy on the public.
| Hook n' Crook.
|

In the beginning they were great. Two brilliant young
men with a great search engine, paid for by putting
plain text ads along the right. Contextual ads,
not spyware ads. You saw an ad for golf clubs because
you searched for "buy golf clubs", not because your
wife looked at golf clubs in a sporting goods store
last week while her phone talked to a bluetooth sensor,
and while your location data showed you speninding time
on a golf course.

On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 3:07:03 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
In short, a cyclist's phone placed him passing a burgled house several time because it was on his exercise route, his mileage and health app via GPS reported to the cloud that he was there, Google surrendered his data to the police on a so-called geofence warrant, and an innocent was forced to spend thousands of dollars of his parents' retirement savings on a lawyer.

Since the police's chief suspect had a good lawyer, the police eventually had to let him go. Since the police slackly concentrated on the easy option of who they could place nearby via their cellphones and Google, they have not found the culprit, they have not recovered the stolen jewellery, and the case remains "open" which basically means the cops, having sat at their computers for so long, have given up hope of solving the case.

These geofence warrants are an invasion of people's privacy forbidden under the American Constitution, especially given the tendency of American police departments, media and employers to take an arrest record, easily obtained, as indicative of criminal behaviour.

I'm with Apple. This crap is only the thin edge of the wedge. The phone companies should be backed by a law that states their right to give the government zero information. Their customers pay them, among other reasons, not to incriminate them in random police sweeps. If the cops went out and rounded up every young black man they saw, there would be an outcry from civil libertarians. There is no difference when the cops round up every cellphone carrier within a mile of a crime-scene.

Andre Jute
Disgusted, Ruislip

Being in the area is no evidence at all. That same warrant would have shown him doing that many times before if it was his normal exercise route. And if it was just one of many it still is no evidence. Being in the neighborhood is not proof of anything. I wouldn't pay one cent to a lawyer unless I was prepared to then sue the government penniless for false accusations on fake evidence.

On 3/9/2020 3:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 3:07:03 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
In short, a cyclist's phone placed him passing a burgled house several time because it was on his exercise route, his mileage and health app via GPS reported to the cloud that he was there, Google surrendered his data to the police on a so-called geofence warrant, and an innocent was forced to spend thousands of dollars of his parents' retirement savings on a lawyer.

Since the police's chief suspect had a good lawyer, the police eventually had to let him go. Since the police slackly concentrated on the easy option of who they could place nearby via their cellphones and Google, they have not found the culprit, they have not recovered the stolen jewellery, and the case remains "open" which basically means the cops, having sat at their computers for so long, have given up hope of solving the case.

These geofence warrants are an invasion of people's privacy forbidden under the American Constitution, especially given the tendency of American police departments, media and employers to take an arrest record, easily obtained, as indicative of criminal behaviour.

I'm with Apple. This crap is only the thin edge of the wedge. The phone companies should be backed by a law that states their right to give the government zero information. Their customers pay them, among other reasons, not to incriminate them in random police sweeps. If the cops went out and rounded up every young black man they saw, there would be an outcry from civil libertarians. There is no difference when the cops round up every cellphone carrier within a mile of a crime-scene.

Being in the area is no evidence at all. That same warrant would have shown him doing that many times before if it was his normal exercise route. And if it was just one of many it still is no evidence. Being in the neighborhood is not proof of anything. I wouldn't pay one cent to a lawyer unless I was prepared to then sue the government penniless for false accusations on fake evidence.


Out here in he real world, there are one hell of a lot of
police of various agencies. There are millions of
interactions per day, interactions with innocent
mind-my-business citizens, with petty criminals shielding
something else, retards/meth heads/feckless/drunk/violent
and then the occasional psychopathic cop killer.

Police are not that much different from the population
generally. Some are smart, some not so much. Some are
honest. Really. Just not all. Many are lazy, inattentive,
overly emotional, distracted by donuts or whatever.

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/c...ce-powers-copa




--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971