Chainring debate?

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chain...114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chain...114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy
a new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 08:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chainring-debate-oval-
round-114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy a
new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)

No and No, but it was given to me over thirty years ago. It eventually
broke into four pieces.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 04:54:15 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 08:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chainring-debate-oval-
round-114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy a
new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)

No and No, but it was given to me over thirty years ago. It eventually
broke into four pieces.

Years ago, I remember reading about the "new" chain ring and it did
seem rather logical but as the round ring I had worked I never bought
one and I suspect that it is one reason why it never became very
popular.

I just read an article about the "new" rings that stated that the
writers had researched the history and "We found four studies that
revealed improvement, and five that did not".

I find it interesting that "Sir Bradley Wiggins became the first
Briton to win the Tour de France riding oval rings,", but, "Wiggins
reverted to round rings towards the end of his career and continued to
win at the highest level, including the World Championship time
trial."
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 12:18:29 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 04:54:15 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 08:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chainring-debate-oval-
round-114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy
a new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)

No and No, but it was given to me over thirty years ago. It eventually
broke into four pieces.

Years ago, I remember reading about the "new" chain ring and it did seem
rather logical but as the round ring I had worked I never bought one and
I suspect that it is one reason why it never became very popular.

It is a different stroke going from hard to soft to hard to soft. IE,
that takes a bit of getting used to. I also found some hill starts very
difficult. YMMV. As I said,it was a gift as the purchaser didnt lie it
either.

On 3/16/2020 8:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chain...114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy
a new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


The sainted Archibald Sharp, who wrote what is still our
industry's best engineering work in 1899, discussed this
fully, as the oval trend had come and gone once already.
Which hasn't stopped a continuing pattern, much like
perpetual motion machines.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, 17 March 2020 09:42:46 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/16/2020 8:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chain...114608596.html

But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy
a new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


The sainted Archibald Sharp, who wrote what is still our
industry's best engineering work in 1899, discussed this
fully, as the oval trend had come and gone once already.
Which hasn't stopped a continuing pattern, much like
perpetual motion machines.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Sheldon Brown liked Biopace and even used it on several of hid fixed gear machines.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html

Cheers

On 3/17/2020 9:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/16/2020 8:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chain...114608596.html


But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush out and buy
a new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten years ago :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


The sainted Archibald Sharp, who wrote what is still our industry's best
engineering work in 1899, discussed this fully, as the oval trend had
come and gone once already. Which hasn't stopped a continuing pattern,
much like perpetual motion machines.

In a sense, odd-shaped rings have a better argument in their favor than
perpetual motion (which is pure hokum). The forces applied and the
accelerations experienced during pedaling by the human leg and foot are
quite complex. It seems very odd that the best transducer for converting
that to forward motion is a simple round ring.

In developing Biopace, Shimano did serious research measuring and
analyzing those input variables. Their shape was far less a whim than a
simple ellipse. But that doesn't mean a simple ellipse is obviously no
improvement on a simple circle; and it doesn't mean that Biopace has
significant benefit.

But as John says, studies on this are all over the map. My guess is that
humans are so endlessly adaptable, we can easily deal with whatever
minor disadvantages occur. It seems related to the fact that power
output is barely affected by cadence over a fairly wide range.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/17/2020 11:31 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/17/2020 9:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/16/2020 8:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 13:13:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Is this really a "great debate"? Seems like a tiny one
to me:

https://sports.yahoo.com/great-chain...114608596.html


But they are a sort of mini- or micro-trend, I guess.

Brand new! For the 8th time or so, that is.


You... you mean... you mean that you aren't going to rush
out and buy
a new oval chain ring? Unbelievable!

Or will you be using the old one that you bought ten
years ago :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


The sainted Archibald Sharp, who wrote what is still our
industry's best engineering work in 1899, discussed this
fully, as the oval trend had come and gone once already.
Which hasn't stopped a continuing pattern, much like
perpetual motion machines.

In a sense, odd-shaped rings have a better argument in their
favor than perpetual motion (which is pure hokum). The
forces applied and the accelerations experienced during
pedaling by the human leg and foot are quite complex. It
seems very odd that the best transducer for converting that
to forward motion is a simple round ring.

In developing Biopace, Shimano did serious research
measuring and analyzing those input variables. Their shape
was far less a whim than a simple ellipse. But that doesn't
mean a simple ellipse is obviously no improvement on a
simple circle; and it doesn't mean that Biopace has
significant benefit.

But as John says, studies on this are all over the map. My
guess is that humans are so endlessly adaptable, we can
easily deal with whatever minor disadvantages occur. It
seems related to the fact that power output is barely
affected by cadence over a fairly wide range.



+1
See also USOC data that crank length, even unmatched LH/RH
arms, for commonly available lengths, had no effect on power
output. In theory maybe but as you note humans adapt.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971