V-brake binding.

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:24:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:24:15 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance screws. Any
adjustment seems to take a while to have effect, then I have to trim back
the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the cable as I can
get
away with. With more travel before the blocks bite - the more excercise
the
pivots get.

The length of the cable housing also effects the centering, especially
on the front wheel. Usually this can be overcome with the tension
screws but it is worth noting.

The balance screwa seem to have a delayed action effect - I have to over
adjust to stop rubbing one side, then a day or two later its rubbing the
other side.

I have experienced the same thing and I find that adjusting the
tension screws and then squeezing the brake handle a few times seems
to even things out and make the adjustment longer lasting. Another
trick is adjust the brakes for more rim clearance. My "knock around"
bike has enough brake pad clearance so that the brake lever tips are
about 1/4" - 3/8" from the handle bars squeezing what feels like to me
heavy pressure.

For convenience; I've fitted socket cap screws that I can just lean over the
handlebars and adjust. The hex-key has a plastic handle, so only one end
pokes holes in my pocket.

I do find that while there seems to be several adjustments before you
reach a sort of "Thank God, I'm finished" stage but usually not more
than a couple of rides.
--

Cheers,

John B.

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:24:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:24:15 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance screws. Any
adjustment seems to take a while to have effect, then I have to trim
back
the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the cable as I can
get
away with. With more travel before the blocks bite - the more excercise
the
pivots get.

The length of the cable housing also effects the centering, especially
on the front wheel. Usually this can be overcome with the tension
screws but it is worth noting.

The balance screwa seem to have a delayed action effect - I have to over
adjust to stop rubbing one side, then a day or two later its rubbing the
other side.

I have experienced the same thing and I find that adjusting the
tension screws and then squeezing the brake handle a few times seems
to even things out and make the adjustment longer lasting. Another
trick is adjust the brakes for more rim clearance.

That's exactly what I did.

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem. You cannot use oil but much use grease.

On 4/6/2016 1:53 PM, wrote:
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.


I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem. You cannot use oil but much use grease.


A small quibble.
V brakes do not move on the frame/fork stud. The motion is
all internal, between the sleeve and the arm with a spring
situated in between. The whole design ethos began as a
unitized thing with slight assembly labor (drop in place,
tighten bolt).

Most all cantilever brakes do pivot between brake and frame
stud. Those are easily disassembled for clean/lube, V brakes
are not.

Unitized pre-assembly is a compelling feature for V on an
S&S coupler bike, where the RH brake arm with the cable on
it stays with the cable and lever. Remove and re-install
brake arm with no special skills or tools, and without
changing the brake adjustment at all. It's not so friendly
for lubrication as most V models have no simple access to
that internal pivot assembly.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

wrote in message
...
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on
the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem.

Do try to pay attention at the back.

Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried keying the posts with
emery paper so they could hold at least *SOME* grease.

On 4/6/2016 3:41 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message

...

back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have
effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes
are mounted on the studs without any lubrication and that
is the problem.

Do try to pay attention at the back.

Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried
keying the posts with emery paper so they could hold at
least *SOME* grease.

(sigh) anyone who took the trouble to undo the bolt and slip
a linear V brake arm off its frame/fork stud and then
actually looked at the thing knows that the brake mechanism
does not move on the stud.

Cantilevers do, linear V brakes do not.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
...
"Ian Field" considered Wed, 6 Apr
2016 21:41:54 +0100 the perfect time to write:



wrote in message
...
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on
the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem.

Do try to pay attention at the back.

Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried keying the posts
with
emery paper so they could hold at least *SOME* grease.

But that joint isn't meant to move except for disassembly.
The movement is supposed to happen between the inner bush of the brake
arm and the arm itself.
Some models will allow you to pull that bush and lubricate the outside
of it, some don't.

There is no bush in the one's I'm having trouble with.

The arms are cast alloy and look as if they're powder coated - that coating
appears to also be inside the hole for the post.

Something else I also mentioned in a previous post; I took a removable rear
post off a scrap frame and run it in the levers with an electric drill.

There doesn't seem to be any standardisation, so I'm reluctant to try
replacing them with salvaged levers - but I didn't notice any bushes as I
put them into the spares box.

On 07/04/16 21:03, Ian Field wrote:


"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
...
"Ian Field" considered Wed, 6 Apr
2016 21:41:54 +0100 the perfect time to write:



wrote in message
...
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted on
the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem.

Do try to pay attention at the back.

Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried keying the
posts with
emery paper so they could hold at least *SOME* grease.

But that joint isn't meant to move except for disassembly.
The movement is supposed to happen between the inner bush of the brake
arm and the arm itself.
Some models will allow you to pull that bush and lubricate the outside
of it, some don't.

There is no bush in the one's I'm having trouble with.

The arms are cast alloy and look as if they're powder coated - that
coating appears to also be inside the hole for the post.

Something else I also mentioned in a previous post; I took a removable
rear post off a scrap frame and run it in the levers with an electric
drill.

There doesn't seem to be any standardisation, so I'm reluctant to try
replacing them with salvaged levers - but I didn't notice any bushes as
I put them into the spares box.

Your levers are mounted on studs? Do levers have bush mountings these
days? I'd have thought the leverage would make this trivial.

"Tosspot" wrote in message
...
On 07/04/16 21:03, Ian Field wrote:


"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
...
"Ian Field" considered Wed, 6 Apr
2016 21:41:54 +0100 the perfect time to write:



wrote in message
...
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2016 4:24 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
back screws out

pull cable with small vise grips

use shims...poss carboard ....between pad n rim

rim needs be centered n true.

fool with screws for balance.

It seems to need fairly frequent trimming of the balance
screws. Any adjustment seems to take a while to have effect,
then I have to trim back the other way.

The best solution so far is to have as much slack on the
cable as I can get away with. With more travel before the
blocks bite - the more excercise the pivots get.

Erratic return as you describe can be the matter of simple
lubrication. Unclip cable nipple, oil brake wire at both
ends and inside noodle ( a quick no-tools job). Oil spring
ends where they clip on the arm and into any gap near spring
coil covers if extant (some V models do not have any
provision for lubrication whatsoever).

That said, did you first ensure the brake pads are not
catching against rim edge or tire? Much more common
situation with V brakes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I agree with you Andrew. I would suggest that the brakes are mounted
on
the studs without any lubrication and that is the problem.

Do try to pay attention at the back.

Elsewhere on this thread I mentioned that I even tried keying the
posts with
emery paper so they could hold at least *SOME* grease.

But that joint isn't meant to move except for disassembly.
The movement is supposed to happen between the inner bush of the brake
arm and the arm itself.
Some models will allow you to pull that bush and lubricate the outside
of it, some don't.

There is no bush in the one's I'm having trouble with.

The arms are cast alloy and look as if they're powder coated - that
coating appears to also be inside the hole for the post.

Something else I also mentioned in a previous post; I took a removable
rear post off a scrap frame and run it in the levers with an electric
drill.

There doesn't seem to be any standardisation, so I'm reluctant to try
replacing them with salvaged levers - but I didn't notice any bushes as
I put them into the spares box.

Your levers are mounted on studs? Do levers have bush mountings these
days? I'd have thought the leverage would make this trivial.

The coating on the levers in question could also be a no friction product.

The salvage levers that got added to the spares box may or may not have
bushes - I didn't think to look as I chucked them in there.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 2:07:26 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/6/2016 3:41 PM, Ian Field wrote:

(sigh) anyone who took the trouble to undo the bolt and slip
a linear V brake arm off its frame/fork stud and then
actually looked at the thing knows that the brake mechanism
does not move on the stud.

Cantilevers do, linear V brakes do not.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/

l
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Perhaps you can tell me how you can rotate a V-brake on the stud without it moving? The V-brakes I've used and the Cantilevers mounted in exactly the same manner. The degrees of rotation are the same for the same distance of the shoes from the rims. True that the V-brakes usually mount much closer so that they can have higher leverage but the lack of lube on the stud can still cause them to move poorly.

The hand levers seizing up would be obvious. As would the cables. You would usually use the return spring hole appropriate for sufficient return pressure. Where else would you suppose that friction would occur that could cause the problem described?