Helmets

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:04:14 +0100, Bod
wrote:

But competition BMX-ers wear something similar to M/cycle crash helmets.

No they don't. Weigh them some time.

Guy

I assume you mean they are a lot lighter?

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:02:26 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:04:14 +0100, Bod
wrote:

But competition BMX-ers wear something similar to M/cycle crash helmets.

No they don't. Weigh them some time.

Guy

I assume you mean they are a lot lighter?

That is certainly the case. Most M/C helmets weigh between 1.5 and 2kg
whereas, afaict, full-face BMX ones are around 1kg. They're clearly
closer in concept to a M/C helmet than to a painted foam one, though.

Ace wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:02:26 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:04:14 +0100, Bod
wrote:

But competition BMX-ers wear something similar to M/cycle crash helmets.
No they don't. Weigh them some time.

Guy
I assume you mean they are a lot lighter?

That is certainly the case. Most M/C helmets weigh between 1.5 and 2kg
whereas, afaict, full-face BMX ones are around 1kg. They're clearly
closer in concept to a M/C helmet than to a painted foam one, though.

I see.

On Aug 5, 6:00*am, Toom Tabard wrote:
On 5 Aug, 11:08, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:48:16 +0100, Peter Clinch

wrote:
I wonder, why on earth did he wear that silly helmet?
Probably something to do with driving a very powerful racing car at
around 200 mph, at a first guess.

I believe that competition motorsport helmets would be effective in
mitigating the forces experienced in some (not all) collisions between
motor vehicles and cyclists, in a way that cycle helmets are not. *I
don't much fancy wearing one while cycling, though, and the cost would
be prohibitive anyway.

A motorsports helmet is of course of a robust design. But in
collisions between motor vehicles and cyclist, where the cyclist bangs
his head, a cycle helmet may in many circumstances prevent or mitigate
the degree of head injury, sometime to crucial degree in terms of
future motor and cognitive functioning of the cyclist.

How could it be otherwise?

Toom

Because standard cycle helmets are not designed, constructed or tested
to withstand impacts with a car. Their functional range is limited to
a simple fall from about 6 feet, that's it. If you want to wear a
bicycle helmet that may be of some use in a collision with a motor
vehicle may I suggest a DOT approved DH lid ...
http://www.sixsixone.com/Catalog_661...a-89252ac07f0c

Toom Tabard wrote:

A motorsports helmet is of course of a robust design. But in
collisions between motor vehicles and cyclist, where the cyclist bangs
his head, a cycle helmet may in many circumstances prevent or mitigate
the degree of head injury, sometime to crucial degree in terms of
future motor and cognitive functioning of the cyclist.

How could it be otherwise?

The exact mechanism? I don't know...

.... but I do know that outside of poorly constructed case-control
studies there is a distinct lack of evidence that that's what
happens, however that might happen.

And where anyone's looked at the rates of serious head injury with
rising helmet wearing rates, there's been *no* clear benefit. If
it "couldn't be otherwise" that shouldn't be the case. But it is.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 5 Aug, 13:05, Simon Brooke wrote:
On 5 Aug, 12:00, Toom Tabard wrote:





On 5 Aug, 11:08, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:48:16 +0100, Peter Clinch

wrote:
I wonder, why on earth did he wear that silly helmet?
Probably something to do with driving a very powerful racing car at
around 200 mph, at a first guess.

I believe that competition motorsport helmets would be effective in
mitigating the forces experienced in some (not all) collisions between
motor vehicles and cyclists, in a way that cycle helmets are not. *I
don't much fancy wearing one while cycling, though, and the cost would
be prohibitive anyway.

A motorsports helmet is of course of a robust design. But in
collisions between motor vehicles and cyclist, where the cyclist bangs
his head, a cycle helmet may in many circumstances prevent or mitigate
the degree of head injury.

Have you /any/ evidence of that at all? If so, we'd all be very
pleased to hear it.- Hide quoted text -

You clipped the last line of my message which said

How could it be otherwise?

Perhaps you could explain why it is not the case that

in collisions between motor vehicles and cyclist, where the cyclist
bangs
his head, a cycle helmet may in many circumstances prevent or mitigate
the degree of head injury.

You'll find there are many circumstances where they prevent or
mitigate injury in such accidents - enquire at any ambulance station,
A&E, head trauma unit, etc.

Toom

Happi Monday wrote:
Now that Massa is out of hospital and doing OK......

I wonder, why on earth did he wear that silly helmet?


How about for the same reason the TdF riders do, because the governign
body says he has to?

Or

Because his Safety system clips to it?

'Cos his radio mic and earphones are in it?

'cos his oxygen supply is piped through it?

'Cos his drinks tube is in there?

'Cos otherwise Trolls coudn't ask stupid OT questions?

On 5 Aug, 16:39, Marz wrote:
On Aug 5, 6:00*am, Toom Tabard wrote:





On 5 Aug, 11:08, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:48:16 +0100, Peter Clinch

wrote:
I wonder, why on earth did he wear that silly helmet?
Probably something to do with driving a very powerful racing car at
around 200 mph, at a first guess.

I believe that competition motorsport helmets would be effective in
mitigating the forces experienced in some (not all) collisions between
motor vehicles and cyclists, in a way that cycle helmets are not. *I
don't much fancy wearing one while cycling, though, and the cost would
be prohibitive anyway.

A motorsports helmet is of course of a robust design. But in
collisions between motor vehicles and cyclist, where the cyclist bangs
his head, a cycle helmet may in many circumstances prevent or mitigate
the degree of head injury, sometime to crucial degree in terms of
future motor and cognitive functioning of the cyclist.

How could it be otherwise?

Toom

Because standard cycle helmets are not designed, constructed or tested
to withstand impacts with a car. Their functional range is limited to
a simple fall from about 6 feet, that's it. If you want to wear a
bicycle helmet that may be of some use in a collision with a motor
vehicle may I suggest a DOT approved DH lid ...http://www.sixsixone.com/Catalog_661...ccb-4456-b...- Hide quoted text -


They are tested to withstand a particular impact in designated
circumstances. That does not mean they won't function to that level of
protection in other circumstances of head impact. In many impacts with
a car much of the energy is absorbed in body and limb impact as well
as the head. The helmet will provide protect up to, and to an extent
sometimes well beyond the minimum, and depending on the head velocity
in the particular impact will in many cases avoid or mitigate injury.
The head is particularly important to protect. Bones and soft body
tissue can heal and restore fairly full functionality. There is not
the same recovery level with brain tissue trauma and there can be
permanent and severe loss of cognitive and motor function. A helmet
can make a crucial difference in this respect in many collisions.

Toom

I wasted some time this afternoon writing a post heavy with sarcasm
purporting to express the view that it was a credit to our collective
wit that a parody of a weak trolling post brought about parodic weak
responses to a troll.

Looking back over the thread I decided that the replies really were
parodies and that I was the po-faced one.

I canceled that post, but now I'm beginning to think that I should have
let it stand. I could be wrong.

--
Roger Thorpe

Standing on a golf course, dressed in PVC.....

On 5 Aug, 13:33, Peter Grange wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:13:40 +0200, Ace wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:05:04 -0700 (PDT), Simon Brooke
wrote:

On 5 Aug, 12:00, Toom Tabard wrote:

A motorsports helmet is of course of a robust design. But in
collisions between motor vehicles and cyclist, where the cyclist bangs
his head, a cycle helmet may in many circumstances prevent or mitigate
the degree of head injury.

Have you /any/ evidence of that at all? If so, we'd all be very
pleased to hear it.

"It's obvious."

Out of my window I can see all the way to the end of the road. From
where I sit it's obvious the world is flat, innit.


And for all practical purposes within that range, and for a good bit
beyond, it can be regarded as flat and will function as such. Just as
for for head impact at velocities within the design range of the
helmet, and a good bit beyond, the helmet protection will function as
such. An excellent analogy. Many thanks.

Toom