Slightly [OT] but I like this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.

As a driver I would much rather see measures that don't knacker your
suspension if you are driving within the limit. Some speed cushions in
30mph zones can only be negotiated at 20mph (unless you drive a large
4x4 or a company car, haha) and chicanes just increase congestion and
pollution.

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.

As a driver I would much rather see measures that don't knacker your
suspension if you are driving within the limit. Some speed cushions in
30mph zones can only be negotiated at 20mph (unless you drive a large
4x4 or a company car, haha) and chicanes just increase congestion and
pollution

I don't think it's OT, since calm traffic concerns all of us. But as a
cyclist, and driver when need be, I don't like speed humps and I would not
want to see speed cameras in the residential streets where I live either. I
find them an eyesore, visual blight, and certainly unnecessary in my local
streets, where speeding was not a significant problem, and to extent that a
small minority did it, they still manage to do it, and still will if a
camera was put in instead. I'd prefer the camera to speed humps, but I'd
prefer nothing at all even more. And I say that much more as a cyclist and
resident - with children, than as a driver.

Rich

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

Some speed cushions in
30mph zones can only be negotiated at 20mph (unless you drive a large
4x4 or a company car, haha) and chicanes just increase congestion and
pollution.

The trouble with chicanes is that whether in your car or on your bike you
become part of the hardware that is meant to psyche other road users into
slowing down and if they don't?
--
Regards,
Pete

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

Some speed cushions in
30mph zones can only be negotiated at 20mph (unless you drive a large
4x4 or a company car, haha) and chicanes just increase congestion and
pollution.

The trouble with chicanes is that whether in your car or on your bike you
become part of the hardware that is meant to psyche other road users into
slowing down and if they don't?
--
Regards,
Pete

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.

A set of these (I think that's what they are. Soft bumps that sit in the
middle of the lane.) between Edinburgh and Musselborough exists on my
regular commute. I've only once had someone try to overtake me at any point
on the route and they changed their mind before it became an issue. The gaps
at the sides mean that I can travel at a constant speed, while the cars are
forced to slow down at each bump.

Quote from the article:
Brian Coleman, deputy leader of the London Assembly Conservatives, says the
speed camera plans will mean residents "getting clobbered all the time by
fines".

That's real special. The plan was to a) Set a 20mph limit. b) Enforce it. Mr
Coleman doesn't appear to understand these simple facts.

Jon


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.624 / Virus Database: 401 - Release Date: 15/03/2004

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.

A set of these (I think that's what they are. Soft bumps that sit in the
middle of the lane.) between Edinburgh and Musselborough exists on my
regular commute. I've only once had someone try to overtake me at any point
on the route and they changed their mind before it became an issue. The gaps
at the sides mean that I can travel at a constant speed, while the cars are
forced to slow down at each bump.

Quote from the article:
Brian Coleman, deputy leader of the London Assembly Conservatives, says the
speed camera plans will mean residents "getting clobbered all the time by
fines".

That's real special. The plan was to a) Set a 20mph limit. b) Enforce it. Mr
Coleman doesn't appear to understand these simple facts.

Jon


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.624 / Virus Database: 401 - Release Date: 15/03/2004

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.

As a driver I would much rather see measures that don't knacker your
suspension if you are driving within the limit. Some speed cushions in
30mph zones can only be negotiated at 20mph (unless you drive a large
4x4 or a company car, haha) and chicanes just increase congestion and
pollution.

We in Hull are installing our 120th 20 mph zone and that's why we are now
the third cycling city in the UK - people here love them and want more and
more. Whole estates are now virtually traffic free and kids are now playing
in the streets like they did 30 years ago. It's great! I never thought I'd
say it but having an anti-car council is the best thing that's happened
here.

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

"Zog The Undeniable" wrote in message
news:4080e0c0.0@entanet...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3628631.stm

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.

As a driver I would much rather see measures that don't knacker your
suspension if you are driving within the limit. Some speed cushions in
30mph zones can only be negotiated at 20mph (unless you drive a large
4x4 or a company car, haha) and chicanes just increase congestion and
pollution.

We in Hull are installing our 120th 20 mph zone and that's why we are now
the third cycling city in the UK - people here love them and want more and
more. Whole estates are now virtually traffic free and kids are now playing
in the streets like they did 30 years ago. It's great! I never thought I'd
say it but having an anti-car council is the best thing that's happened
here.

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Zog The Undeniable wrote in news:4080e0c0.0@entanet:

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.


There's a road in Liverpool with the full-width speed ramps, except for a
gap at either end for the cycle lanes to pass through. So of course,
traffic zooming along goes into the cycle lane so only their driver's side
wheels have to cross the ramp, so they don't have to slow down as much.
They do this even when there's cyclists using the lane (it's the main cycle
route to the university) and I've seen many side-swipes. I stopped using
that road long ago.

Zog The Undeniable wrote in news:4080e0c0.0@entanet:

I don't think physical "traffic calming" is good for drivers or
cyclists. Speed cushions are particularly horrible as they encourage
drivers not to give you any clearance when overtaking, for fear of
hitting the blasted things head-on.


There's a road in Liverpool with the full-width speed ramps, except for a
gap at either end for the cycle lanes to pass through. So of course,
traffic zooming along goes into the cycle lane so only their driver's side
wheels have to cross the ramp, so they don't have to slow down as much.
They do this even when there's cyclists using the lane (it's the main cycle
route to the university) and I've seen many side-swipes. I stopped using
that road long ago.