Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

looking over online descriptions and rebuilds for Rohlo hubs, was written FIBER COGS....

now you're the big time Rohlo user, you should know this.


regressing into your ugly imbecile stage isn't necessary.

If you were a writer you would write not fool with RBT.

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:27:58 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 12:46:34 PM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:30:22 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 1:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes
(which you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or
more with wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft
goes up tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub
in the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive
derailleurs, would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan
equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The
not so smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I
recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to
European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is
just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear
version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the
cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an
impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves
who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.


My impression from my last bike ride in Germany in 2014 is that they are
already there. Around 25% percent of the bikes I saw were E-bikes. If
you count only newer ones that number would probably be north of 50%.

I don't know how standardized E-bikes are but that's also an issue. The
more standardized the higher the chances of being stolen. Because, like
many Japanese cars where parts commonality is very high, they are highly
desired at chop shops. Worth more money in parts than as a whole so they
are butchered the minute they arrive. Once parted out the chance of
being discovered is almost zilch.

We already have four "standards" in e-bike and pedelec motor fitments, the first three fitting standard traditional frames:
1. Around a standard front axle.
2. Around a standard rear axle, with a cog or a cluster of cogs.
3. Centrally, mounted through a standard bottom bracket shell, as in the 8FUN motor sold by BMS and everyone else as an aftermarket fitment.
4. Bosch/Panasonic, central, requiring a custom frame, but so many made that effectively this is a already a common, semi-standard frame. The motors, intended for OEM users, are very expensive at retail, so there could be a burgeoning stolen market once replacements become necessary.

There are some other mounting patterns that require brackets to be welded or brazed onto frames, or even custom frames, but none of them has taken off.

Makes you wonder if Bosch and Panasonic had lack of interchangeability in mind as an anti-theft measure, and got overtaken by success.

Andre Jute

For who is the chance that the car gets stolen a requirement when buying a car? Not buying a Rohloff hub because it can get stolen? Ridiculous.

Lou

Seems to me that what Joerg says is that with a Rohloff, because its is valuable, the risk of theft is increased. I don't think so, but his implied point, that with a Rohloff the loss will hurt more because it cost more, is valid.

I take the view that I'm not going to use crap equipment just because the good stuff may be more attractive to thieves. I just take normal care of my gear, including measures to frustrate thieves.

Andre Jute

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:44:42 PM UTC+1, wrote:
looking over online descriptions and rebuilds for Rohlo hubs, was written FIBER COGS....

now you're the big time Rohlo user, you should know this.

I've told you before, sonny, show us so we can see for ourselves where you went wrong. You've proven unreliable and wrongheaded and just plain stupid too often for us to take anything you say on faith. SHOW US THE FIBER COGS OR APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR LIE.

regressing into your ugly imbecile stage isn't necessary.

Like all schoolyard bullies, you like handing it out but you can't take it. The instant someone bats back your nastiness, you start whimpering like a little girl.

If you were a writer you would write not fool with RBT.

Latest fascist craze, Jeff Daniels, RBT resident ****wit, wants to decide how much time I'm permitted to spend on my hobby.

Andre Jute
Riding tall

On 09/04/2015 9:56 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:27:58 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 12:46:34 PM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:30:22 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 1:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes
(which you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or
more with wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft
goes up tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub
in the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive
derailleurs, would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan
equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The
not so smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I
recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to
European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is
just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear
version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the
cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an
impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves
who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.


My impression from my last bike ride in Germany in 2014 is that they are
already there. Around 25% percent of the bikes I saw were E-bikes. If
you count only newer ones that number would probably be north of 50%.

I don't know how standardized E-bikes are but that's also an issue. The
more standardized the higher the chances of being stolen. Because, like
many Japanese cars where parts commonality is very high, they are highly
desired at chop shops. Worth more money in parts than as a whole so they
are butchered the minute they arrive. Once parted out the chance of
being discovered is almost zilch.

We already have four "standards" in e-bike and pedelec motor fitments, the first three fitting standard traditional frames:
1. Around a standard front axle.
2. Around a standard rear axle, with a cog or a cluster of cogs.
3. Centrally, mounted through a standard bottom bracket shell, as in the 8FUN motor sold by BMS and everyone else as an aftermarket fitment.
4. Bosch/Panasonic, central, requiring a custom frame, but so many made that effectively this is a already a common, semi-standard frame. The motors, intended for OEM users, are very expensive at retail, so there could be a burgeoning stolen market once replacements become necessary.

There are some other mounting patterns that require brackets to be welded or brazed onto frames, or even custom frames, but none of them has taken off.

Makes you wonder if Bosch and Panasonic had lack of interchangeability in mind as an anti-theft measure, and got overtaken by success.

Andre Jute

For who is the chance that the car gets stolen a requirement when buying a car? Not buying a Rohloff hub because it can get stolen? Ridiculous.

Lou

Seems to me that what Joerg says is that with a Rohloff, because its is valuable, the risk of theft is increased. I don't think so, but his implied point, that with a Rohloff the loss will hurt more because it cost more, is valid.

I take the view that I'm not going to use crap equipment just because the good stuff may be more attractive to thieves. I just take normal care of my gear, including measures to frustrate thieves.


Some of the college students around here beat their bikes up so that no
one will steal them. It's usually funny because they're mostly low end
bikes to begin with. Someone even tried marketing spray on rust.

On 2015-04-08 3:46 PM, wrote:
J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...


Rohloff hubs are very popular with MTB riders in Europe. A friend
visiting Germany rented a MTB there and to his surprise it came with a
Rohloff hub. Considered almost normal there. In the US, not so, never
seen one on the trails and I see a lot of bikes there.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2015-04-09 9:23 AM, Duane wrote:
On 09/04/2015 9:56 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:27:58 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 12:46:34 PM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:30:22 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 1:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes
(which you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or
more with wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft
goes up tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub
in the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive
derailleurs, would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan
equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The
not so smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I
recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to
European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is
just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear
version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the
cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an
impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves
who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.


My impression from my last bike ride in Germany in 2014 is that
they are
already there. Around 25% percent of the bikes I saw were E-bikes. If
you count only newer ones that number would probably be north of 50%.

I don't know how standardized E-bikes are but that's also an issue.
The
more standardized the higher the chances of being stolen. Because,
like
many Japanese cars where parts commonality is very high, they are
highly
desired at chop shops. Worth more money in parts than as a whole so
they
are butchered the minute they arrive. Once parted out the chance of
being discovered is almost zilch.

We already have four "standards" in e-bike and pedelec motor
fitments, the first three fitting standard traditional frames:
1. Around a standard front axle.
2. Around a standard rear axle, with a cog or a cluster of cogs.
3. Centrally, mounted through a standard bottom bracket shell, as in
the 8FUN motor sold by BMS and everyone else as an aftermarket fitment.
4. Bosch/Panasonic, central, requiring a custom frame, but so many
made that effectively this is a already a common, semi-standard
frame. The motors, intended for OEM users, are very expensive at
retail, so there could be a burgeoning stolen market once
replacements become necessary.

There are some other mounting patterns that require brackets to be
welded or brazed onto frames, or even custom frames, but none of
them has taken off.

Makes you wonder if Bosch and Panasonic had lack of
interchangeability in mind as an anti-theft measure, and got
overtaken by success.

Andre Jute

For who is the chance that the car gets stolen a requirement when
buying a car? Not buying a Rohloff hub because it can get stolen?
Ridiculous.

Lou

Seems to me that what Joerg says is that with a Rohloff, because its
is valuable, the risk of theft is increased. I don't think so, but his
implied point, that with a Rohloff the loss will hurt more because it
cost more, is valid.


Exactamente. To the tune of an extra $1500 loss. That's a lot of money.


I take the view that I'm not going to use crap equipment just because
the good stuff may be more attractive to thieves. I just take normal
care of my gear, including measures to frustrate thieves.


The fact that my SUV creates a low desire among thieves was one of my
points written down on the "pro" side when deciding which one to buy.
It's too rare. Plus a stick-shift so even most joy-rider kids don't want it.


Some of the college students around here beat their bikes up so that no
one will steal them. It's usually funny because they're mostly low end
bikes to begin with. Someone even tried marketing spray on rust.


In a German NG they even have a name for that: "Boruttiert" means
"munged, dirtied, uglified". Because AFAIR it was a guy with the Family
name Borutta who proposed the method.

With my MTB the theft risk is probably modest because it is often so
caked with mud that you can't even decipher the brand. My road bike is
30 years old. Reynolds-531 frame but to normal thieves that bike looks
like it can't be hocked at all, that nobody would want it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2015-04-09 17:03:26 +0000, Joerg said:

On 2015-04-08 3:46 PM, wrote:
J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...


Rohloff hubs are very popular with MTB riders in Europe. A friend
visiting Germany rented a MTB there and to his surprise it came with a
Rohloff hub. Considered almost normal there. In the US, not so, never
seen one on the trails and I see a lot of bikes there.

[...]

The idea is that it is not normal/stupid to ride with an open gearbox
in bad conditions. According to that idea a gearhub is the way to go.
If you want a wide range (MTB) and a good efficiency (sportive riding)
you end up with a Rohloff hub naturally.
Your gearbox of your car is also closed and filled with oil. No?
--

Lou

Lou....we hear baaaad stuff abt tooling around Yurp with expensive equipment.

In Fla, I am warned that casual riding from A to B to Wal to the Superduper on your Ti or CF will find you followed by the bad guys in game format.

A Rohloff is prob worth $10 ! in 23% living in poverty among millionaires

ask Jutee

I had parts stolen from the mail 2x and once from Universal an entire truck from the UPS lot fresh from the Coast.

I believe Jeff has passed....I'm G E N E

the planetary gearbox idea is really cooool but Ima gonnna look further for MTB

sounds sloppy

opposite of what Holtman experienced.

we should give J an electronic box see how long it lasts.

On 4/9/2015 1:38 PM, wrote:
Lou....we hear baaaad stuff abt tooling around Yurp with expensive equipment.

In Fla, I am warned that casual riding from A to B to Wal to the Superduper on your Ti or CF will find you followed by the bad guys in game format.

A Rohloff is prob worth $10 ! in 23% living in poverty among millionaires

ask Jutee

I had parts stolen from the mail 2x and once from Universal an entire truck from the UPS lot fresh from the Coast.



Did you get your Easter Bunny?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2159340

http://ktla.com/2015/04/05/oklahoma-...worth-of-meth/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971