A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

1950's style hybrid electric bicycles



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 4th 17, 02:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Ads
  #2  
Old June 4th 17, 06:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

psycho bike

https://www.google.com/search?site=&...icycle+cruiser

  #3  
Old June 4th 17, 02:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 22:26:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

psycho bike

https://www.google.com/search?site=&...icycle+cruiser

Learn to trim URL's. That should be:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=1950+bicycle+cruiser

Also, those machines are missing all goodies. I don't see much in the
way of hybrid power, sprung suspension, kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and a gas tank. If I'm going
to do the nostalgia thing, I want it all.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #4  
Old June 4th 17, 07:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,276
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On 6/3/2017 8:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.

It's kinda disappointing to go to all that work when he is using a cheap
frame and fork... It would look a lot better if those were done
custom--and that can still be done cheaply just by buying a cheap steel
frame and cutting out the tubes and re-using all the end parts.

Also I probably posted in the past: those monark reproduction forks are
scary. I got mine some years back now, but the bolts in it were made
wrong such that one-half of them would not stay tight. I had to machine
special shouldered bolts to make mine ride-able.
,,,
It's possible they've changed them since I suppose, I have not seen any
recent example IRL. The only more-recent one I've seen close-up photos
of online was just like mine; that guy had used loctite to try to get
the bolts to hold.
  #5  
Old June 4th 17, 10:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On 6/4/2017 2:44 PM, DougC wrote:

... those monark reproduction forks are
scary. I got mine some years back now, but the bolts in it were made
wrong such that one-half of them would not stay tight. I had to machine
special shouldered bolts to make mine ride-able.
,,,
It's possible they've changed them since I suppose, I have not seen any
recent example IRL. The only more-recent one I've seen close-up photos
of online was just like mine; that guy had used loctite to try to get
the bolts to hold.


That's a shame. While I'm not interested in either one, the Monark
design looks more sensible to me than the alternative shown at
http://www.designboom.com/wp-content...oom-header.jpg
with the near-horizontal spring. That one pivots about the fork crown.
Seems to me you'd want the unsprung mass to be moving more vertically as
with the Monark, rather than almost horizontally.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #6  
Old June 4th 17, 10:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 2:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I think your memory is going, Jeff. At 15 you would already have been too smart to fall for this crap. " first [sic] apprenticed as an antique furniture restorer, his bikes resolve technical and aesthetic problems by adapting to continual changes in function and form." That's the designer speaking of himself in what he fondly imagines is the third person. Forget the resulting non sequitur and the uncapitalized sentence and the extra space -- we get enough of that illiterate **** here on RBT from Jeff Daniels -- but instead translate that sentence into English, in which it reads, "Because I'm only a journeyman antique furniture faker, whenever my bikes look like **** or fall apart [as Doug Cimperman points out], instead of fixing the problem, I leave it to bite the credulous buyer in the balls, and build my next monstrosity."

Even if this bike doesn't fall apart, as Doug says, and plants the rider on his face, there's another problem with that suspension. It pivots the lower steering inclination around the bottom of the head tube to compress a horizontal helical spring against the frame. Thus it "suspends" by moving the contact patch of the tire backwards and forwards, constantly changing the wheelbase of the bike and the effective angle determining the steering trail. In short, it is not a suspension device but a self-steering monstrosity, further aggravated by the uncontrolled weight transfer it causes. In addition the rear suspension commits the same self-steering by wheelbase-altering error, uncontrollaby adding or subtracting from the front error depending on the road and how true the bike tracks -- I'm not even smiling at that pun, because this bike will never track true even on a level, smooth road. The whole thing, if anyone ever manages to get it up to speed, say downhill, that bike will switch from dangerous understeer to lethal oversteer and back quite unpredictably, several times a second.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a clown with such a poor grasp of geometry as luca agnelli (his rendition of his name) to "restore" any furniture I may sit on, never mind "design" a bicycle I would (refuse to) ride.

Andre Jute
I ask for no more than competence. Is that really too much?
  #7  
Old June 4th 17, 11:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 5:54:00 PM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 2:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I think your memory is going, Jeff. At 15 you would already have been too smart to fall for this crap. " first [sic] apprenticed as an antique furniture restorer, his bikes resolve technical and aesthetic problems by adapting to continual changes in function and form." That's the designer speaking of himself in what he fondly imagines is the third person. Forget the resulting non sequitur and the uncapitalized sentence and the extra space -- we get enough of that illiterate **** here on RBT from Jeff Daniels -- but instead translate that sentence into English, in which it reads, "Because I'm only a journeyman antique furniture faker, whenever my bikes look like **** or fall apart [as Doug Cimperman points out], instead of fixing the problem, I leave it to bite the credulous buyer in the balls, and build my next monstrosity."

Even if this bike doesn't fall apart, as Doug says, and plants the rider on his face, there's another problem with that suspension. It pivots the lower steering inclination around the bottom of the head tube to compress a horizontal helical spring against the frame. Thus it "suspends" by moving the contact patch of the tire backwards and forwards, constantly changing the wheelbase of the bike and the effective angle determining the steering trail. In short, it is not a suspension device but a self-steering monstrosity, further aggravated by the uncontrolled weight transfer it causes. In addition the rear suspension commits the same self-steering by wheelbase-altering error, uncontrollaby adding or subtracting from the front error depending on the road and how true the bike tracks -- I'm not even smiling at that pun, because this bike will never track true even on a level, smooth road. The whole thing, if anyone ever manages to get it up to speed, say downhill, that bike will switch from dangerous understeer to lethal oversteer and back quite unpredictably, several times a second.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a clown with such a poor grasp of geometry as luca agnelli (his rendition of his name) to "restore" any furniture I may sit on, never mind "design" a bicycle I would (refuse to) ride.

Andre Jute
I ask for no more than competence. Is that really too much?


is possible a counter Italian Design culture exists ?

https://kenneturner.files.wordpress....-ii.jpg?w=1000

  #8  
Old June 5th 17, 12:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,276
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On 6/4/2017 4:53 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 2:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I think your memory is going, Jeff. At 15 you would already have been too smart to fall for this crap. " first [sic] apprenticed as an antique furniture restorer, his bikes resolve technical and aesthetic problems by adapting to continual changes in function and form." That's the designer speaking of himself in what he fondly imagines is the third person. Forget the resulting non sequitur and the uncapitalized sentence and the extra space -- we get enough of that illiterate **** here on RBT from Jeff Daniels -- but instead translate that sentence into English, in which it reads, "Because I'm only a journeyman antique furniture faker, whenever my bikes look like **** or fall apart [as Doug Cimperman points out], instead of fixing the problem, I leave it to bite the credulous buyer in the balls, and build my next monstrosity."

Even if this bike doesn't fall apart, as Doug says, and plants the rider on his face, there's another problem with that suspension. It pivots the lower steering inclination around the bottom of the head tube to compress a horizontal helical spring against the frame. Thus it "suspends" by moving the contact patch of the tire backwards and forwards, constantly changing the wheelbase of the bike and the effective angle determining the steering trail. In short, it is not a suspension device but a self-steering monstrosity, further aggravated by the uncontrolled weight transfer it causes. In addition the rear suspension commits the same self-steering by wheelbase-altering error, uncontrollaby adding or subtracting from the front error depending on the road and how true the bike tracks -- I'm not even smiling at that pun, because this bike will never track true even on a level, smooth road. The whole thing, if anyone ever manages to get it up to speed, say downhill, that bike will switch from dangerous understeer to lethal oversteer and back quite unpredictably, several times a second.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a clown with such a poor grasp of geometry as luca agnelli (his rendition of his name) to "restore" any furniture I may sit on, never mind "design" a bicycle I would (refuse to) ride.

Andre Jute
I ask for no more than competence. Is that really too much?


Chill out, Andy

that fork IS a legitimate vintage design--albeit one that was only used
on kids' novelty bikes the last time around--
http://schwinncruisers.com/bikes/krates/

and I think the fork design goes back further than that,,, like, pre-WW2
but I'm not certain.

The Monark forks (the other style used on OP's link) are a 'real'
vintage design as well-
http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle121

and this design was cribbed from earlier pre-WW1-era motorcycles, though
I'm not sure of the exact brand...
(similar but different spring style)
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/ba...n-zb0z1601zhur

The Monark forks don't look the same as what I bought, so maybe they
have fixed some of the issues I saw--
https://monarkforks.com/

Nowadays they're not really intended to be functional suspension,
really. Low-speed, light-duty kid stuff. The forward-bent springer forks
common on lowrider bicycles sometimes reach rather ridiculous proportions.

  #9  
Old June 5th 17, 01:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 14:53:56 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 2:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.


I think your memory is going, Jeff.


I don't think so. There are many things I would rather forget, but my
bicycle preferences are not included.

At 15 you would already have been too smart to fall for this crap.


At 15, I was an aspiring juvenile delinquent, where my concept of the
ideal bicycle was defined as the model that would make the fastest
getaway.

"Because I'm only a journeyman antique furniture faker, whenever my
bikes look like **** or fall apart [as Doug Cimperman points out],
instead of fixing the problem, I leave it to bite the credulous
buyer in the balls, and build my next monstrosity."


Isn't that the current trend in product design? Customer tested
devices, usually at the customers expense. That's what crowd funding
is really all about. You get a small discount to be the first person
among your tribe to own a genuine defective prototype. I bought a few
of those on Kickstarter which I soon found badly implemented good
ideas. When first to market is what makes the profits, it's tempting
to sell an unfinished design or prototype just to shave off a few days
from the product release date. I suspect the supply of second
childhood 70+ year old bicycle collectors, that are into bicycle
nostalgia, and have the money to pay for an imported semi-custom
machine, is rather limited. Whomever gets there first, will probably
end up with the entire market.

Even if this bike doesn't fall apart, as Doug says, and plants the
rider on his face, there's another problem with that suspension.
It pivots the lower steering inclination around the bottom of the
head tube to compress a horizontal helical spring against the frame.

(...)

Have you ever considered the possibility that these bicycles were not
meant to be ridden? They have the look of a "show" bicycle, which is
meant to demonstrate the discerning taste of the buyer, to those who
have no taste. The photos are from "craft-works exhibition at stone
island showroom in via savona 54" which is apparently a clothing
fashion outlet in a Milan mall, not a bicycle showroom:
http://www.stoneisland.com

Notice that no prices are mentioned, which suggests that they are
outrageously high. The best part of the bicycles shown is the
(probably) powder coated paint job, which is certainly not worth
risking a ding or a paint flake by riding it on the streets.

The whole thing, if anyone ever manages to get it up to speed,
say downhill, that bike will switch from dangerous understeer to
lethal oversteer and back quite unpredictably, several times a second.


Well, when I was 15 years old, I rode around on something with a front
wheel that wobbled badly enough that steering was rather erratic.
However, since I didn't know that this was not normal, I simply
adapted and rider merrily and erratically down the sidewalk. Whomever
buys these bicycles is probably more concerned about how it looks than
how it rides.

Also, since these bicycles were made to be shown, not ridden, in the
unlikely event that someone actually tries to ride one, it will be
very very slowly. That's the only way to insure that the owners
riding companions can get a good look at the machine and are thus able
to contrive admiring comments. Therefore, I wouldn't worry much about
steering and mechanical difficulties.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a clown with such a poor grasp of
geometry as luca agnelli (his rendition of his name) to
"restore" any furniture I may sit on, never mind "design"
a bicycle I would (refuse to) ride.


No problem. If I end up with one, I won't let you ride it.

Personally, I like it, not because of the engineering or design, but
because it conglomerated into one machine, all the worst design
aspects of 1950's bicycles. Bicycle kitsch perhaps?
https://www.google.com/search?q=kitsch&tbm=isch

I ask for no more than competence. Is that really too much?


Careful what you ask for. It may not be what you really need or want.
In this case, anyone who demonstrates competence soon starts a dot com
company, gets involved way over his head, produces ever decreasing
quality products, gets sued by his stockholders, and ends up either
impoverished, or retired in opulent splendor after a government
bailout. Competence is not the road to quality products.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #10  
Old June 5th 17, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default 1950's style hybrid electric bicycles

On 6/4/2017 7:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 14:53:56 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 2:58:38 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
http://www.designboom.com/technology/luca-agnelli-milano-bici-milan-electric-bicycles-04-18-2016/
http://www.agnellimilanobici.com
1950's retro style hybrid electric bicycle for the 70 year old
nostalgia aficionado, who wants a bicycle with power augmentation,
built onto a sprung mountain bike frame. Kickstand, fenders, big
headlight, chrome, white-wall fat tires, and gas tank are included.
It's everything I wanted in a bicycle when I was 15 years old.


I think your memory is going, Jeff.


I don't think so. There are many things I would rather forget, but my
bicycle preferences are not included.

At 15 you would already have been too smart to fall for this crap.


At 15, I was an aspiring juvenile delinquent, where my concept of the
ideal bicycle was defined as the model that would make the fastest
getaway.

"Because I'm only a journeyman antique furniture faker, whenever my
bikes look like **** or fall apart [as Doug Cimperman points out],
instead of fixing the problem, I leave it to bite the credulous
buyer in the balls, and build my next monstrosity."


Isn't that the current trend in product design? Customer tested
devices, usually at the customers expense. That's what crowd funding
is really all about. You get a small discount to be the first person
among your tribe to own a genuine defective prototype. I bought a few
of those on Kickstarter which I soon found badly implemented good
ideas. When first to market is what makes the profits, it's tempting
to sell an unfinished design or prototype just to shave off a few days
from the product release date. I suspect the supply of second
childhood 70+ year old bicycle collectors, that are into bicycle
nostalgia, and have the money to pay for an imported semi-custom
machine, is rather limited. Whomever gets there first, will probably
end up with the entire market.

Even if this bike doesn't fall apart, as Doug says, and plants the
rider on his face, there's another problem with that suspension.
It pivots the lower steering inclination around the bottom of the
head tube to compress a horizontal helical spring against the frame.

(...)

Have you ever considered the possibility that these bicycles were not
meant to be ridden? They have the look of a "show" bicycle, which is
meant to demonstrate the discerning taste of the buyer, to those who
have no taste. The photos are from "craft-works exhibition at stone
island showroom in via savona 54" which is apparently a clothing
fashion outlet in a Milan mall, not a bicycle showroom:
http://www.stoneisland.com

Notice that no prices are mentioned, which suggests that they are
outrageously high. The best part of the bicycles shown is the
(probably) powder coated paint job, which is certainly not worth
risking a ding or a paint flake by riding it on the streets.

The whole thing, if anyone ever manages to get it up to speed,
say downhill, that bike will switch from dangerous understeer to
lethal oversteer and back quite unpredictably, several times a second.


Well, when I was 15 years old, I rode around on something with a front
wheel that wobbled badly enough that steering was rather erratic.
However, since I didn't know that this was not normal, I simply
adapted and rider merrily and erratically down the sidewalk. Whomever
buys these bicycles is probably more concerned about how it looks than
how it rides.

Also, since these bicycles were made to be shown, not ridden, in the
unlikely event that someone actually tries to ride one, it will be
very very slowly. That's the only way to insure that the owners
riding companions can get a good look at the machine and are thus able
to contrive admiring comments. Therefore, I wouldn't worry much about
steering and mechanical difficulties.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a clown with such a poor grasp of
geometry as luca agnelli (his rendition of his name) to
"restore" any furniture I may sit on, never mind "design"
a bicycle I would (refuse to) ride.


No problem. If I end up with one, I won't let you ride it.

Personally, I like it, not because of the engineering or design, but
because it conglomerated into one machine, all the worst design
aspects of 1950's bicycles. Bicycle kitsch perhaps?
https://www.google.com/search?q=kitsch&tbm=isch

I ask for no more than competence. Is that really too much?


Careful what you ask for. It may not be what you really need or want.
In this case, anyone who demonstrates competence soon starts a dot com
company, gets involved way over his head, produces ever decreasing
quality products, gets sued by his stockholders, and ends up either
impoverished, or retired in opulent splendor after a government
bailout. Competence is not the road to quality products.




Gresham smiles from beyond the grave.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
a collection of solar electric hybrid bikes. chewbacca General 0 April 6th 08 05:16 PM
collection of solar electric hybrid bikes. chewbacca Techniques 0 April 6th 08 05:15 PM
Gas Electric Hybrid Bike. Builder claims 130mpg chewbacca Techniques 7 March 25th 08 04:46 AM
Gas Electric Hybrid Bike. Builder claims 130mpg chewbacca General 4 March 23rd 08 07:59 PM
gas electric hybrid bike Cydrome Leader Techniques 2 September 2nd 05 11:37 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.