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Octalink ES25 replacement?



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 14th 17, 03:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 3,345
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:04:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:

Are the modern press in BB bearings an actual improvement?



Most definitely not.


In fact, the word is that they actually get loose in the BB and have to be replace with those screw-in mechanisms such as

https://www.merlincycles.com/praxis-...EaAjrcEALw_wcB
Ads
  #42  
Old August 14th 17, 04:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:04:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:31:09 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.


Quantity discounts or loyal-customer rebates at a local store are ok.
Often people get 10% of at the LBS if they bought their bike there.
However, if an online retailer changes pricing on people depending on
what their zip code is or a bank sets loan rates based on the color of
one's skin that is a slippery slope.

Why? It is almost a normal practice and to my personal experience is
done just about everywhere I've been. In Maine the "summer folks" are
charged more then a "native", in fact this was so common that the term
"summer rate" was commonly used when I lived there. In every Asian
country I've lived in a "white skinned" foreigner was either charged a
higher price or not given as large a discount as a native. It is
probably not politically correct (in the U.S.) to say "white skinned"
although that is a commonly heard description in most Asian countries
:-(


You have probably been away from the US too long. Discrimination based
on race, gender, ethnicity and so on is a punishable offense here.


In Phuket, Thailand the Bar Girls even have a "High Season" rate and a
"Low Season" rate. High Season is of course, when the tourists flock
in.


Setting prices higher or lower is fine as long as that isn't done based
on the looks of who is coming in.


In fact, if we go to an open market, where bargaining is the norm, my
wife will always be quoted a cheaper price then I would. (foreigners
are all rich!)


That is normal. We even had that where I lived in the Netherlands. If
you spoke the language with a local accent (I did) you have an easier
time negotiating a good deal for food items at the open air market.

[...]


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible..
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.

Take it to a good bike shop :-) I have a shop in Bangkok and another
in Phuket where they seem to know what they're doing.... as long as I
know enough to ask the right questions, that is.


I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]

I wonder how popular the Octalink pedals were? I can't remember ever
seeing one on the road, or maybe I didn't look :-) Perhaps they
weren't that common that people talk about them.


AFAICT they were on all the bikes I looked at in early 2014. What do
bikes in the $1k range have in Thailand? Square taper is a good system
but I have only seen that on older bikes here like on my 1982 road bike.
I don't know why they went to Octalink. Maybe it saves half a few
hundred milligrams.


To be honest I don't pay as close attention to new bikes as I might.
Partly, I suppose, because I have three road bikes and a "knock
around" bike, all of which, well with the exception of one road bike
that I built myself, are more then ten years old, one of the road
bikes may be from the 1970's, and I don't lust after something just
because it is new.

But honestly, I can't ever remember seeing either a bike with an
octalink crank or for that matter any octalink parts in shops. Which
of course may only mean that I didn't have my eyes open that day :-)


You can't see it unless you have the clerk pull the spec sheet or take a
crank off.


But as for why they were made, I suspect that like many of the New!
Innovative! Wonderful! things that appear on the market they were
built simply to be New! Innovative! and Wonderful!

Are the modern press in BB bearings an actual improvement?



Most definitely not.


... Or are they
just "same old" but in a new style "that we can announce as an
improvement and charge more money for"?



They are cheap alright but, as unfortunately usual for bike parts, have
a very paltry service life. For the same money my MTB buddy bought a
massive front wheel bearing assembly for his Chevy Express van and they
last hundreds of thousands of miles. Not just 5000.


Because you buy **** and expect it to last forever. Octalink was abandoned a decade ago and sucked when it was current production -- as did ISIS and the small bearing BBs with OS spindles.

Quit whining and buy a 105 compact crank with a $16 external bearing BB. Your bike has no historical value and maintaining a bad standard will just bring you back in one or two years with the same complaints -- and the endless comparisons to the longevity of 25lb car parts.

-- Jay Beattie
  #43  
Old August 14th 17, 04:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 8:29:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:04:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:31:09 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6..99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.

  #44  
Old August 14th 17, 05:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-14 08:51, wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 8:29:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:04:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:


[...]

... Or are they just "same old" but in a new style "that we can
announce as an improvement and charge more money for"?


They are cheap alright but, as unfortunately usual for bike
parts, have a very paltry service life. For the same money my MTB
buddy bought a massive front wheel bearing assembly for his Chevy
Express van and they last hundreds of thousands of miles. Not
just 5000.


Because you buy **** and expect it to last forever. Octalink was
abandoned a decade ago and sucked when it was current production --
as did ISIS and the small bearing BBs with OS spindles.

Quit whining and buy a 105 compact crank with a $16 external
bearing BB. Your bike has no historical value and maintaining a bad
standard will just bring you back in one or two years with the same
complaints -- and the endless comparisons to the longevity of 25lb
car parts.


Well I have to agree with your idea if not your attitude.


When buying a $1k mainstream bicycle I expect things to last. People
with external bearings out here fare no better as their BBs also develop
creaks and bearing play after a few thousand miles.

It's similar with road bikes. A friend only buys high-class hubs costing
north of $200 a pop. They don't last longer than mine.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #46  
Old August 14th 17, 06:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-14 10:17, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2017 12:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-14 08:51, wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 8:29:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Quit whining and buy a 105 compact crank with a $16 external
bearing BB. Your bike has no historical value and maintaining a bad
standard will just bring you back in one or two years with the same
complaints -- and the endless comparisons to the longevity of 25lb
car parts.

Well I have to agree with your idea if not your attitude.


When buying a $1k mainstream bicycle I expect things to last. People
with external bearings out here fare no better as their BBs also
develop creaks and bearing play after a few thousand miles.

It's similar with road bikes. A friend only buys high-class hubs
costing north of $200 a pop. They don't last longer than mine.


You need to move out of that Bermuda-Triangle-hell-hole where everything
breaks, nothing works, everything is dangerous and bicyclists can barely
survive.


If you read more carefully, as suggested often, you'd have noticed that
it isn't broken but simply _worn_ out.


Why, oh why, didn't you stay in the nice safe Netherlands?


Too socialist back in the 80's and thus taxes too high. Besides, regular
bicycle stuff wore out just as bad there as here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #47  
Old August 14th 17, 08:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 9:06:33 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-14 08:51, wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 8:29:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:04:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:


[...]

... Or are they just "same old" but in a new style "that we can
announce as an improvement and charge more money for"?


They are cheap alright but, as unfortunately usual for bike
parts, have a very paltry service life. For the same money my MTB
buddy bought a massive front wheel bearing assembly for his Chevy
Express van and they last hundreds of thousands of miles. Not
just 5000.

Because you buy **** and expect it to last forever. Octalink was
abandoned a decade ago and sucked when it was current production --
as did ISIS and the small bearing BBs with OS spindles.

Quit whining and buy a 105 compact crank with a $16 external
bearing BB. Your bike has no historical value and maintaining a bad
standard will just bring you back in one or two years with the same
complaints -- and the endless comparisons to the longevity of 25lb
car parts.


Well I have to agree with your idea if not your attitude.


When buying a $1k mainstream bicycle I expect things to last. People
with external bearings out here fare no better as their BBs also develop
creaks and bearing play after a few thousand miles.


Your options: (1) buy another BB and continue on with the crank until you mis-install it and ruin the splines or it breaks. Mine broke -- snapped a crank arm. Good riddance. Move on. (2) Buy a reasonably priced compact crank with outboard bearing BB, or (3) complain incessantly that nothing lasts as long as the $25 alternator you bought at Pep Boys.

If an outboard bearing BB goes south, you buy a new $16 Shimano unit -- one of the greatest values in bicycledom. You can also buy an outboard bearing unit with replaceable 24/37 bearings as was mentioned previously when you groused about disposable BBs. My outboard bearing units were quiet when installed with a little PTFE tape and lasted a long time. My last threaded BB bike, however, broke. BUT, I'm getting a free warranty replacement -- but it will have a BB30. That's no big deal because I have the tools, and I can buy cheap 6806 bearings if I want, or I can buy fancy Enduro bearings.


It's similar with road bikes. A friend only buys high-class hubs costing
north of $200 a pop. They don't last longer than mine.


Then your friend is a poor shopper. Tell him to buy some Ultegra hubs. Road hubs should last a long time. The M525 MTB rear disc hub died on my commuter, but I think the hub cost me $25, and it was ridden for years in wet weather.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #48  
Old August 14th 17, 09:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-14 12:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 9:06:33 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-14 08:51, wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 8:29:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 7:04:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:


[...]

... Or are they just "same old" but in a new style "that we
can announce as an improvement and charge more money for"?


They are cheap alright but, as unfortunately usual for bike
parts, have a very paltry service life. For the same money my
MTB buddy bought a massive front wheel bearing assembly for
his Chevy Express van and they last hundreds of thousands of
miles. Not just 5000.

Because you buy **** and expect it to last forever. Octalink
was abandoned a decade ago and sucked when it was current
production -- as did ISIS and the small bearing BBs with OS
spindles.

Quit whining and buy a 105 compact crank with a $16 external
bearing BB. Your bike has no historical value and maintaining a
bad standard will just bring you back in one or two years with
the same complaints -- and the endless comparisons to the
longevity of 25lb car parts.

Well I have to agree with your idea if not your attitude.


When buying a $1k mainstream bicycle I expect things to last.
People with external bearings out here fare no better as their BBs
also develop creaks and bearing play after a few thousand miles.


Your options: (1) buy another BB and continue on with the crank until
you mis-install it and ruin the splines or it breaks. Mine broke --
snapped a crank arm. Good riddance. Move on. (2) Buy a reasonably
priced compact crank with outboard bearing BB, or (3) complain
incessantly that nothing lasts as long as the $25 alternator you
bought at Pep Boys.

If an outboard bearing BB goes south, you buy a new $16 Shimano unit
-- one of the greatest values in bicycledom. You can also buy an
outboard bearing unit with replaceable 24/37 bearings as was
mentioned previously when you groused about disposable BBs. My
outboard bearing units were quiet when installed with a little PTFE
tape and lasted a long time. My last threaded BB bike, however,
broke. BUT, I'm getting a free warranty replacement -- but it will
have a BB30. That's no big deal because I have the tools, and I can
buy cheap 6806 bearings if I want, or I can buy fancy Enduro
bearings.


There is no space down there on the MTB for outboard bearings. Unless
maybe there are fancy cranks for it but that's going to be expensive.
With this thread I was hoping someone could point me to a 1:1
replacement that is better at a reasonably higher cost. Looks like there
isn't so I'll probably just buy several ES25 sets (or maybe ES300 if
they fit) and use them as disposables just like chains and cassettes.

On the road bike the UN-55 I just installed is holding up. Knocking on wood.


It's similar with road bikes. A friend only buys high-class hubs
costing north of $200 a pop. They don't last longer than mine.


Then your friend is a poor shopper. Tell him to buy some Ultegra
hubs. Road hubs should last a long time. The M525 MTB rear disc hub
died on my commuter, but I think the hub cost me $25, and it was
ridden for years in wet weather.


AFAIK he has tried just about anything high-end from Shimano and the hub
he uses now turned out to last the longest. But not forever. I think he
rides more than 10k miles/year and the condition of most roads in
California isn't the greatest. It's usually the rear hub that goes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #49  
Old August 15th 17, 02:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:04:07 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:31:09 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.


Quantity discounts or loyal-customer rebates at a local store are ok.
Often people get 10% of at the LBS if they bought their bike there.
However, if an online retailer changes pricing on people depending on
what their zip code is or a bank sets loan rates based on the color of
one's skin that is a slippery slope.

Why? It is almost a normal practice and to my personal experience is
done just about everywhere I've been. In Maine the "summer folks" are
charged more then a "native", in fact this was so common that the term
"summer rate" was commonly used when I lived there. In every Asian
country I've lived in a "white skinned" foreigner was either charged a
higher price or not given as large a discount as a native. It is
probably not politically correct (in the U.S.) to say "white skinned"
although that is a commonly heard description in most Asian countries
:-(


You have probably been away from the US too long. Discrimination based
on race, gender, ethnicity and so on is a punishable offense here.

Thank the Lord I don't live in the U.S. any more. A place where people
can't say what they think.


In Phuket, Thailand the Bar Girls even have a "High Season" rate and a
"Low Season" rate. High Season is of course, when the tourists flock
in.


Setting prices higher or lower is fine as long as that isn't done based
on the looks of who is coming in.


I can assure you that in just about every Asian country I have lived
in, and that is six of them, you are treated by what you look like. In
fact in some of the countries you are treated not only by how you look
but also by what you sound like.

But why ever not? Do you think that humans aren't clannish? My family
against your family, my village against your village and my nation
against your nation, not to mention my god against your god, seems to
have been the determining factor in human relationships through out
history and is still true today.

Is it really better to be required by law to smile and say, "Yes Sir"
and "No Sir" while all the time thinking "you miserable no good
*whatever*" way down deep inside?

Required by law to be a liar?



In fact, if we go to an open market, where bargaining is the norm, my
wife will always be quoted a cheaper price then I would. (foreigners
are all rich!)


That is normal. We even had that where I lived in the Netherlands. If
you spoke the language with a local accent (I did) you have an easier
time negotiating a good deal for food items at the open air market.

[...]


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible.
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.

Take it to a good bike shop :-) I have a shop in Bangkok and another
in Phuket where they seem to know what they're doing.... as long as I
know enough to ask the right questions, that is.


I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]

I wonder how popular the Octalink pedals were? I can't remember ever
seeing one on the road, or maybe I didn't look :-) Perhaps they
weren't that common that people talk about them.


AFAICT they were on all the bikes I looked at in early 2014. What do
bikes in the $1k range have in Thailand? Square taper is a good system
but I have only seen that on older bikes here like on my 1982 road bike.
I don't know why they went to Octalink. Maybe it saves half a few
hundred milligrams.


To be honest I don't pay as close attention to new bikes as I might.
Partly, I suppose, because I have three road bikes and a "knock
around" bike, all of which, well with the exception of one road bike
that I built myself, are more then ten years old, one of the road
bikes may be from the 1970's, and I don't lust after something just
because it is new.

But honestly, I can't ever remember seeing either a bike with an
octalink crank or for that matter any octalink parts in shops. Which
of course may only mean that I didn't have my eyes open that day :-)


You can't see it unless you have the clerk pull the spec sheet or take a
crank off.


But as for why they were made, I suspect that like many of the New!
Innovative! Wonderful! things that appear on the market they were
built simply to be New! Innovative! and Wonderful!

Are the modern press in BB bearings an actual improvement?



Most definitely not.


However they are much cheaper to manufacture :-)

... Or are they
just "same old" but in a new style "that we can announce as an
improvement and charge more money for"?



They are cheap alright but, as unfortunately usual for bike parts, have
a very paltry service life. For the same money my MTB buddy bought a
massive front wheel bearing assembly for his Chevy Express van and they
last hundreds of thousands of miles. Not just 5000.


That is a non sensible response. A front hub assembly for a Chevy
weighs in the neighborhood of 20 lbs... nearly as much as my entire
bicycle.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #50  
Old August 15th 17, 02:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:09:09 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 17:44, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:33:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 07:13, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)


Not just for OEMs. I bought a 7-speed cassette for my road bike on
Amazon. When my last UG freehub crunched out I bought a 7-speed HG
freehub body, also via Amazon. You can also buy shifters and whatever
else you might need, not just from Shimano:

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Acera.../dp/B003ZM9RX6

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Speed.../dp/B01A5930R0

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Bicycle-.../dp/B000C15HS2

John, my hat goes off. 110km round trip at your age is great. I don't
know any local guy above 80 who'd even as much as think about doing that.


Well, I guess I ought to take center stage :-) But that was 55Km. for
the round trip "out and back".



Still great. My usual rides aren't much longer than that, around 65km.
As you said in the other post keeping at it is the trick. That is how my
great grandpa made it to almost 103 in good health. He walked miles and
miles every day though his last motorcycle ride was at 95.


I think it is the secret to most everything. Just keep going :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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