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  #51  
Old May 14th 17, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Shimano Headset

On 5/14/2017 12:17 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 1:07:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-14 09:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:24:49 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped

Hint: A repetitive scraping noise is usually a sign of imminent
wear-out of some part. A derailer hanger coming apart on the 20mi
home isn't so cool because that means hoofing the remaining miles.

As unbelievable as it may sound I tend to invest that extra minute
or two to prevent such things.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you carried a chain-breaker you could shorten your chain when your
derailler hanger comes apart and then ride that 20mi home on the
single gear. Then you wouldn't have to worry about being stalked by
mountain lions.


I can do that without a chain breaker. However, Where I ride with my MTB
single gear won't help much. You'd be stuck all the time. I use almost
the whole gear range on every ride, jumping 4-6 gears all the time
because it has to happen fast.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


You could simply put the chain onto a low gear and ride a bit slower. It'd still beat walking. But then again in your corner of the world nothing easy nor sensible (such as carrying a small multi-tool with a chain breaker on it) works. You'd rather scrounge rocks and rusty nails.

Cheers


In fairness, Joerg noted "single gear" which has only one
chain length (but too those have minimal chain troubles).

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #52  
Old May 14th 17, 09:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Shimano Headset

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 4:06:34 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:17 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 1:07:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-14 09:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:24:49 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped

Hint: A repetitive scraping noise is usually a sign of imminent
wear-out of some part. A derailer hanger coming apart on the 20mi
home isn't so cool because that means hoofing the remaining miles.

As unbelievable as it may sound I tend to invest that extra minute
or two to prevent such things.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you carried a chain-breaker you could shorten your chain when your
derailler hanger comes apart and then ride that 20mi home on the
single gear. Then you wouldn't have to worry about being stalked by
mountain lions.


I can do that without a chain breaker. However, Where I ride with my MTB
single gear won't help much. You'd be stuck all the time. I use almost
the whole gear range on every ride, jumping 4-6 gears all the time
because it has to happen fast.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


You could simply put the chain onto a low gear and ride a bit slower. It'd still beat walking. But then again in your corner of the world nothing easy nor sensible (such as carrying a small multi-tool with a chain breaker on it) works. You'd rather scrounge rocks and rusty nails.

Cheers


In fairness, Joerg noted "single gear" which has only one
chain length (but too those have minimal chain troubles).

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Well then pehaps in addition to a chain breaker perhaps he should c arry a spare chain too. If I thought that there was a very high probability of trashing a chain 20 miles into the wilderness I'd carry a spare chain too.

Cheers
  #53  
Old May 15th 17, 12:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,546
Default Shimano Headset

AMuzi wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:17 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 1:07:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-14 09:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:24:49 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped

Hint: A repetitive scraping noise is usually a sign of imminent
wear-out of some part. A derailer hanger coming apart on the 20mi
home isn't so cool because that means hoofing the remaining miles.

As unbelievable as it may sound I tend to invest that extra minute
or two to prevent such things.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you carried a chain-breaker you could shorten your chain when your
derailler hanger comes apart and then ride that 20mi home on the
single gear. Then you wouldn't have to worry about being stalked by
mountain lions.


I can do that without a chain breaker. However, Where I ride with my MTB
single gear won't help much. You'd be stuck all the time. I use almost
the whole gear range on every ride, jumping 4-6 gears all the time
because it has to happen fast.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


You could simply put the chain onto a low gear and ride a bit slower.
It'd still beat walking. But then again in your corner of the world
nothing easy nor sensible (such as carrying a small multi-tool with a
chain breaker on it) works. You'd rather scrounge rocks and rusty nails.

Cheers


In fairness, Joerg noted "single gear" which has only one
chain length (but too those have minimal chain troubles).


Yeah but I think he's saying riding on a single gear won't help much, not
that he has a single gear normally.

--
duane
  #54  
Old May 15th 17, 01:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Shimano Headset

On 5/14/2017 6:58 PM, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:17 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 1:07:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-14 09:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:24:49 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped

Hint: A repetitive scraping noise is usually a sign of imminent
wear-out of some part. A derailer hanger coming apart on the 20mi
home isn't so cool because that means hoofing the remaining miles.

As unbelievable as it may sound I tend to invest that extra minute
or two to prevent such things.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you carried a chain-breaker you could shorten your chain when your
derailler hanger comes apart and then ride that 20mi home on the
single gear. Then you wouldn't have to worry about being stalked by
mountain lions.


I can do that without a chain breaker. However, Where I ride with my MTB
single gear won't help much. You'd be stuck all the time. I use almost
the whole gear range on every ride, jumping 4-6 gears all the time
because it has to happen fast.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You could simply put the chain onto a low gear and ride a bit slower.
It'd still beat walking. But then again in your corner of the world
nothing easy nor sensible (such as carrying a small multi-tool with a
chain breaker on it) works. You'd rather scrounge rocks and rusty nails.

Cheers


In fairness, Joerg noted "single gear" which has only one
chain length (but too those have minimal chain troubles).


Yeah but I think he's saying riding on a single gear won't help much, not
that he has a single gear normally.


Sorry I think I misunderstood that.

So after a mountain bike chain mishap, either with a chain
tool ride in some not-ideal gear or without one walk home.

Duh.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #55  
Old May 15th 17, 02:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Shimano Headset

On Sun, 14 May 2017 19:24:13 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/14/2017 6:58 PM, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 5/14/2017 12:17 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 1:07:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-14 09:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:24:49 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped

Hint: A repetitive scraping noise is usually a sign of imminent
wear-out of some part. A derailer hanger coming apart on the 20mi
home isn't so cool because that means hoofing the remaining miles.

As unbelievable as it may sound I tend to invest that extra minute
or two to prevent such things.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you carried a chain-breaker you could shorten your chain when your
derailler hanger comes apart and then ride that 20mi home on the
single gear. Then you wouldn't have to worry about being stalked by
mountain lions.


I can do that without a chain breaker. However, Where I ride with my MTB
single gear won't help much. You'd be stuck all the time. I use almost
the whole gear range on every ride, jumping 4-6 gears all the time
because it has to happen fast.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You could simply put the chain onto a low gear and ride a bit slower.
It'd still beat walking. But then again in your corner of the world
nothing easy nor sensible (such as carrying a small multi-tool with a
chain breaker on it) works. You'd rather scrounge rocks and rusty nails.

Cheers


In fairness, Joerg noted "single gear" which has only one
chain length (but too those have minimal chain troubles).


Yeah but I think he's saying riding on a single gear won't help much, not
that he has a single gear normally.


Sorry I think I misunderstood that.

So after a mountain bike chain mishap, either with a chain
tool ride in some not-ideal gear or without one walk home.

Duh.


Back in the day, when life was much simpler, a bicycle came with one
gear that was useful for riding on the level (and down hill, Whoopee!)
and you pushed it up hill.

Proof? See:
http://tinyurl.com/m3rn2b7
Or for the working man, see: http://tinyurl.com/kyohozn
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #56  
Old May 15th 17, 02:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Shimano Headset

On Sun, 14 May 2017 15:00:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2017 07:42:40 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 8:43:29 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2017 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 9:57:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:06:04 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
But then, to one who habitually uses a nail and a rock as a chain tool
the use of proper tools is probably a mystery.


Try to differentiate between an outdoors emergency situation and the
workshop in the garage. It's not that difficult.

-
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Which is hy mose of us carry a small tool repair kit that includes a chain-breaker. That way a broken chain isn't an ememrgency and a repair only takes a few seconds. After all seconds count when you're beig stalked by mountain lions or other hungry critters doesn't it? For someone who either breaks chains a lot or often comes across people with a broken chain (bother very rare where I ride even on the technical trails) it ONLY makes sense to have a chain breaker and spare link(s)and quick-link WITH YOU.

To be honest using a rock and rusty nail to repair a chain in the field sounds like something an armchair bicyclist would think up. Such a repaired chain would most likely fail again after only a short distance. Believe it or not there's good reasons why chain breakers are used to fix a chain.

Cheers

Out of curiosity I weighed and measured the chain tool that I carry in
my bike tool kit. It is 2-1/2 inches in length and 2-1/8 inches in
height. 1/2 inch thick, at its thickest, and weighs 2.6 ounces. It
works with chains up to and including 10 speed chains (I don't own an
11 speed). Frankly, as a broken chain immobilizes the bicycle I can
see no logic in not carrying it.

Since I have never once had a broken chain nor seen one I cannot see any
requirement to carry such a tool. Yesterday I did 55 miles and 2500
feet of climbing with some of it pretty steep ~12%. There were fore of
us there and the dirt encrusted on the bikes showed a certain lack of
careful maintenance. No one had any problems. I have been carrying all
these tools around for the last 6 years and the only one's I've used
are the tire repair tools.

Equally, I have had two crashes severe enough to break bones and in
neither did my head strike the ground. Thus, based on your logic,
there is no reason what so ever to wear a helmet.


There is almost no reason to wear a helmet under any conditions. If a

helmet was just barely able to protect me in a fall literally from 18"
what makes you think that a helmet can do anything other than protect
you from getting scratches on your head in a sideways fall at a dead
stop?

My oldest daughter hit her head on a concrete retaining wall hard
enough to crack the hardshell bike helmet and came away without a
scratch (on her head - she did get a bit of "road rash" elsewhere)-
and most certainly would have suffered a concussion without it. The
foam lining and hard plastic shell absorbed a LOT of impact.


Of course it happens. But equally, I had a run away horse run under an
apple tree and knock me off. In fact I was unconscious for a short
period. No helmet, and no concussion, or at least none that evidenced
any symptoms.

But my post was in response to someone that stated that, he rode 50
miles and didn't need a chain tool, thus chain tools aren't necessary.
I, perhaps somewhat whimsically, pointed out that as I had two severe
crashes without injuring my head that helmets obviously weren't
necessary either.

Alternately, there have been a number of people that fell or jumped
out of airplanes without a parachute and survived. Which may prove
that parachutes aren't necessary either.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #57  
Old May 15th 17, 03:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default Shimano Headset

On Mon, 15 May 2017 08:54:22 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2017 15:00:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2017 07:42:40 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 8:43:29 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2017 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 9:57:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:06:04 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
But then, to one who habitually uses a nail and a rock as a chain tool
the use of proper tools is probably a mystery.


Try to differentiate between an outdoors emergency situation and the
workshop in the garage. It's not that difficult.

-
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Which is hy mose of us carry a small tool repair kit that includes a chain-breaker. That way a broken chain isn't an ememrgency and a repair only takes a few seconds. After all seconds count when you're beig stalked by mountain lions or other hungry critters doesn't it? For someone who either breaks chains a lot or often comes across people with a broken chain (bother very rare where I ride even on the technical trails) it ONLY makes sense to have a chain breaker and spare link(s)and quick-link WITH YOU.

To be honest using a rock and rusty nail to repair a chain in the field sounds like something an armchair bicyclist would think up. Such a repaired chain would most likely fail again after only a short distance. Believe it or not there's good reasons why chain breakers are used to fix a chain.

Cheers

Out of curiosity I weighed and measured the chain tool that I carry in
my bike tool kit. It is 2-1/2 inches in length and 2-1/8 inches in
height. 1/2 inch thick, at its thickest, and weighs 2.6 ounces. It
works with chains up to and including 10 speed chains (I don't own an
11 speed). Frankly, as a broken chain immobilizes the bicycle I can
see no logic in not carrying it.

Since I have never once had a broken chain nor seen one I cannot see any
requirement to carry such a tool. Yesterday I did 55 miles and 2500
feet of climbing with some of it pretty steep ~12%. There were fore of
us there and the dirt encrusted on the bikes showed a certain lack of
careful maintenance. No one had any problems. I have been carrying all
these tools around for the last 6 years and the only one's I've used
are the tire repair tools.

Equally, I have had two crashes severe enough to break bones and in
neither did my head strike the ground. Thus, based on your logic,
there is no reason what so ever to wear a helmet.

There is almost no reason to wear a helmet under any conditions. If a

helmet was just barely able to protect me in a fall literally from 18"
what makes you think that a helmet can do anything other than protect
you from getting scratches on your head in a sideways fall at a dead
stop?

My oldest daughter hit her head on a concrete retaining wall hard
enough to crack the hardshell bike helmet and came away without a
scratch (on her head - she did get a bit of "road rash" elsewhere)-
and most certainly would have suffered a concussion without it. The
foam lining and hard plastic shell absorbed a LOT of impact.


Of course it happens. But equally, I had a run away horse run under an
apple tree and knock me off. In fact I was unconscious for a short
period. No helmet, and no concussion, or at least none that evidenced
any symptoms.


Similar situation but the took me off on hydro pole. Took me right
out of my boots - and my ribs were sore for a month.

But my post was in response to someone that stated that, he rode 50
miles and didn't need a chain tool, thus chain tools aren't necessary.
I, perhaps somewhat whimsically, pointed out that as I had two severe
crashes without injuring my head that helmets obviously weren't
necessary either.

Alternately, there have been a number of people that fell or jumped
out of airplanes without a parachute and survived. Which may prove
that parachutes aren't necessary either.

Any safety equipment that is not overly intrusive is worth using
  #58  
Old May 15th 17, 03:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Shimano Headset

On 5/14/2017 10:33 AM, wrote:


I still don't follow any of this. I rode Mt. Bikes since they were first developed. I've ridden road bikes roughly forever. The chains that I've seen break didn't break - they popped one side of a link loose. And this was because they weren't assembled properly. I see no requirements for a chain breaker. And I haven't been disappointed by not having one.


I recall two broken chains. One was on my mountain bike, probably 15
years ago. Riding in deep woods, I missed a sudden shift to the
smallest chainring. The chain twisted apart, and one pin was lost. I
had no chain tool, but I had a bit of baling wire in the bike bag. I
used a short section of that wire to tie the ends of the chain together.
The repair wouldn't pass through the deraileur, so I ratchet-pedaled
and coasted back home. Fortunately, it wasn't far.

The other broken chain was on my wife's bike, just a few years ago. One
side plate cracked in half, which really surprised me; she's certainly
not hard on equipment. The only evidence was a loud clicking sound once
or twice per chain revolution. Again, it was close to home, and she had
no problem riding it back home; but we were lucky, because we had just
finished a 200+ mile tour. If it had happened on that ride, it might
have been a tough problem. I don't think I had a chain tool along.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #59  
Old May 15th 17, 03:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Shimano Headset

On 5/14/2017 3:00 PM, wrote:

My oldest daughter hit her head on a concrete retaining wall hard
enough to crack the hardshell bike helmet and came away without a
scratch (on her head - she did get a bit of "road rash" elsewhere)-
and most certainly would have suffered a concussion without it. The
foam lining and hard plastic shell absorbed a LOT of impact.


Sorry, but it's pretty clear that a broken or cracked helmet is not
evidence of a prevented concussion. There are probably thousands of
incidents of broken helmets per year; yet bike concussions have _risen_
tremendously since helmets became popular. Check out the article titled
"Senseless" in _Bicycling_ magazine, June 2013.
http://www.bicycling.com/sites/defau...-13-Helmet.pdf

"Here’s the trouble. Stat #3: As more people buckled on helmets, brain
injuries also increased. Between 1997 and 2011 the number of
bike-related concussions suffered annually by American riders increased
by 67 percent, from 9,327 to 15,546, according to the National
Electronic Injury Surveillance System..."

A broken helmet is evidence that helmets are very breakable.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #60  
Old May 15th 17, 03:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Shimano Headset

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sun, 14 May 2017 07:42:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 8:43:29 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2017 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 9:57:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:06:04 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
But then, to one who habitually uses a nail and a rock as a chain tool
the use of proper tools is probably a mystery.


Try to differentiate between an outdoors emergency situation and the
workshop in the garage. It's not that difficult.

-
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Which is hy mose of us carry a small tool repair kit that includes a chain-breaker. That way a broken chain isn't an ememrgency and a repair only takes a few seconds. After all seconds count when you're beig stalked by mountain lions or other hungry critters doesn't it? For someone who either breaks chains a lot or often comes across people with a broken chain (bother very rare where I ride even on the technical trails) it ONLY makes sense to have a chain breaker and spare link(s)and quick-link WITH YOU.

To be honest using a rock and rusty nail to repair a chain in the field sounds like something an armchair bicyclist would think up. Such a repaired chain would most likely fail again after only a short distance. Believe it or not there's good reasons why chain breakers are used to fix a chain.

Cheers

Out of curiosity I weighed and measured the chain tool that I carry in
my bike tool kit. It is 2-1/2 inches in length and 2-1/8 inches in
height. 1/2 inch thick, at its thickest, and weighs 2.6 ounces. It
works with chains up to and including 10 speed chains (I don't own an
11 speed). Frankly, as a broken chain immobilizes the bicycle I can
see no logic in not carrying it.

Since I have never once had a broken chain nor seen one I cannot see any
requirement to carry such a tool. Yesterday I did 55 miles and 2500
feet of climbing with some of it pretty steep ~12%. There were fore of
us there and the dirt encrusted on the bikes showed a certain lack of
careful maintenance. No one had any problems. I have been carrying all
these tools around for the last 6 years and the only one's I've used
are the tire repair tools.

Equally, I have had two crashes severe enough to break bones and in
neither did my head strike the ground. Thus, based on your logic,
there is no reason what so ever to wear a helmet.


There is almost no reason to wear a helmet under any conditions. If a helmet was just barely able to protect me in a fall literally from 18" what makes you think that a helmet can do anything other than protect you from getting scratches on your head in a sideways fall at a dead stop?

My oldest daughter hit her head on a concrete retaining wall hard
enough to crack the hardshell bike helmet and came away without a
scratch (on her head - she did get a bit of "road rash" elsewhere)-
and most certainly would have suffered a concussion without it. The
foam lining and hard plastic shell absorbed a LOT of impact.


I would suggest that you don't understand the nature and causes of concussion. And that you don't understand the mechanics of impact. Where did you get a hardshell bicycle helmet?

I don't know the age or weight of your child or what "retaining wall" means.. Colliding and hitting your head in the forward lunge is NOT the same as falling off of your bike and taking the brunt of the collision with the ground on your head.
 




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