Long, long, long-long-long rides

I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about bike
setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly over 100
miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with some expected
aches and pains, but no major trauma. For those who have done Lotoja
(or a similar ride/race) I'm curious about the following:

1) Currently, my bar sits about 2" below my saddle - a position that
works just fine over 3-4 hours (with some lower back pain coming into
the picture after that). Would you recommend a more upright position?

2) Is chamois cream really that helpful (given modern seamless
synthetic chamois)?

3) What kind of gearing would you recommend (applies primarily to
those who suffered through the most recent edition, as the course was
changed)?

4) Did you make any other accomodations?

5) If you did make any changes, did you try to implement them early in
the season (for muscle memory purposes), or immediatly before/during
the race?

Thanks in advance,
SYJ

SYJ wrote:
I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about bike
setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly over 100
miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with some expected
aches and pains, but no major trauma. For those who have done Lotoja
(or a similar ride/race) I'm curious about the following:

I haven't done that particular ride, but I have done many rides as long
or longer. So here's my $0.02:

1) Currently, my bar sits about 2" below my saddle - a position that
works just fine over 3-4 hours (with some lower back pain coming into
the picture after that). Would you recommend a more upright position?

Upright may put more weight on you butt, with subsequent complications.
If your position works for 3-4 hours, it should work for longer. Make a
habit of standing every once in a while and stretching out. Try to stay
limber, and don't tense up. The key for me is finding a good fore-aft
saddle position so I can balance without too much weight on my hands,
and not too much on the butt.

2) Is chamois cream really that helpful (given modern seamless
synthetic chamois)?

I have ridden 22+ hour rides in rain, grit and all sorts of
unpleasantness. I use a synthetic pad and no cream or anything. The pad
shouldn't be moving around, so it shouldn't chafe. If it does, try
different and/or smaller/larger shorts.

3) What kind of gearing would you recommend (applies primarily to
those who suffered through the most recent edition, as the course was
changed)?

Never been there!

4) Did you make any other accomodations?

Fuel is a critical ingredient for long rides. You will be expending a
massive amout of energy, so you need to make sure you replenish your
reserves as much as possible underway. Or at least slow their rate of
depletion. 100 miles and 200 miles are very different. Make sure to eat
and drink. Also make sure to keep the pace sane. Every 5 seconds of
anerobic will cost you big time down the road. Stomping up a short
incline to keep the speed up isn't worth it. You may get up that little
bump 2 seconds faster, but it may haunt you later. Think smooth, even
power.

5) If you did make any changes, did you try to implement them early in
the season (for muscle memory purposes), or immediatly before/during
the race?

I would not make any changes whatsoever before a long ride like that.
Everything from food the day before to equipment would be something I
knew I liked and was used to.

Thanks in advance,
SYJ

Have fun!

Joseph

SYJ wrote:
I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about bike
setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly over 100
miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with some expected
aches and pains, but no major trauma. For those who have done Lotoja
(or a similar ride/race) I'm curious about the following:

1) Currently, my bar sits about 2" below my saddle - a position that
works just fine over 3-4 hours (with some lower back pain coming into
the picture after that). Would you recommend a more upright position?

If you have lower back pain after 3-4 hours, then I would surmise your
bar is not set correctly. You should be able to ride for hours and
hours without back pain.


2) Is chamois cream really that helpful (given modern seamless
synthetic chamois)?

3) What kind of gearing would you recommend (applies primarily to
those who suffered through the most recent edition, as the course was
changed)?

Low enough so you can sit and spin up all of the mountains. Don't have
gearing so high you have to stand and struggle up the first mountain.
200 miles is a long way.


4) Did you make any other accomodations?

5) If you did make any changes, did you try to implement them early in
the season (for muscle memory purposes), or immediatly before/during
the race?

As already mentioned by Joseph, food and fluids are very important.
Very, very important. You really need to ride that far to see how your
body will react. The longer I ride the less tolerant and more
sensitive my stomach becomes. You need to decide if regular food or
only the liquid mixes will work for you. I'd suggest participating in
the 200, 300, and 400 km randonneur brevet series in your area to test
the distance involved and your dietary requirements.



Thanks in advance,
SYJ

In article . com,
wrote:

SYJ wrote:
I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about
bike setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly
over 100 miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with
some expected aches and pains, but no major trauma. For those who
have done Lotoja (or a similar ride/race) I'm curious about the
following:

1) Currently, my bar sits about 2" below my saddle - a position
that works just fine over 3-4 hours (with some lower back pain
coming into the picture after that). Would you recommend a more
upright position?

If you have lower back pain after 3-4 hours, then I would surmise
your bar is not set correctly. You should be able to ride for hours
and hours without back pain.

Maybe the bars, maybe saddle position, maybe both. Since Greg Lemond's
book came out there is a tendency to think that pushing the saddle back
is a good thing, but it's not necessarily so. Having your butt farther
back makes you bend more, reversing the lumbar curve and often causing
pain after a few hours. I agree with Russell that one should be able to
ride as long as one wants without low back pain, and that if you are
having low back pain at all there is something that needs to be adjusted
in your position.

Now, IMHO 2" below the saddle isn't very low. Mine is about that, maybe
slightly higher now as I've aged and stopped racing. Once upon a time I
rode with the bars 11 cm (5") below the saddle quite comfortably...

2) Is chamois cream really that helpful (given modern seamless
synthetic chamois)?

Yes. Yes. Yesssss. Unless you have callused cheeks. For most rides I
use Noxzema as it washes out easily. For rides of about 50 miles or
more, I usually use Chamois Butt'r. I haven't tried it yet, but
Lantiseptic barrier creme is getting rave reviews among randonneurs
lately.

3) What kind of gearing would you recommend (applies primarily to
those who suffered through the most recent edition, as the course
was changed)?

Low enough so you can sit and spin up all of the mountains. Don't
have gearing so high you have to stand and struggle up the first
mountain. 200 miles is a long way.


4) Did you make any other accomodations?

5) If you did make any changes, did you try to implement them
early in the season (for muscle memory purposes), or immediatly
before/during the race?

Make your adjustments now and make them incrementally, to give your body
time to adjust. Do not make any significant changes in your position
before the big event.

As already mentioned by Joseph, food and fluids are very important.
Very, very important. You really need to ride that far to see how
your body will react. The longer I ride the less tolerant and more
sensitive my stomach becomes. You need to decide if regular food or
only the liquid mixes will work for you. I'd suggest participating
in the 200, 300, and 400 km randonneur brevet series in your area to
test the distance involved and your dietary requirements.

Good idea, with the benefit of putting the OP in touch with local riders
with lots of experience in riding those distances.

SYJ wrote:
I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about bike
setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly over 100
miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with some expected
aches and pains, but no major trauma.

If the start is crazy, even though they're going 200 mi., I'd wait for
the big slams to leave, or go up the road to a place you can wait and
look for a decent smaller group to jump in with.

My longest day is well short of 200 miles (175 or so); however, if I
were doing this, the first hour or two might be ridden pretty darn
gently, especially if I could find a group (see above g) of
safe-riding, like-minded individuals to share pace and enjoy the ride
with. Bike clubs or as another poster mentioned, other long, organized
rides might be a place to make contacts with the purpose of forming a
Finish Lojota Assault Group. Crap, that's an acronym, isn't it? Didn't
mean to...

Back in the day, at 140 miles or so, I used to need a ham and cheese
sandwich; the pre-gelfood era Gatorade or whatnot (sugar replacements)
available back then just didn't help after awhile. "YMMV" --D-y

SYJ wrote:
I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about bike
setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly over 100
miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with some expected
aches and pains, but no major trauma. For those who have done Lotoja
(or a similar ride/race) I'm curious about the following:

1) Currently, my bar sits about 2" below my saddle - a position that
works just fine over 3-4 hours (with some lower back pain coming into
the picture after that). Would you recommend a more upright position?

If it's more comfortable, yes, but the only way to find out what works
for long hours on the bike is to spend long hours on the bike.


2) Is chamois cream really that helpful (given modern seamless
synthetic chamois)?

Yes. The real purpose of the cream is not to lubricate, but to prevent
moisture (sweat) from softening the skin and allowing it to chafe more
easily. The best creams have waterproofing compounds like Vaseline and
lanolin. You apply them (as frequently as needed) to the skin, not the
shorts.


3) What kind of gearing would you recommend (applies primarily to
those who suffered through the most recent edition, as the course was
changed)?

A triple helps on ultra rides when there's lots of climbing.
particularly if you're not as well trained as you should be or are prone
to cramps. Spinning a higher cadence on climbs doesn't seem to fatigue
the muscles as badly.


4) Did you make any other accomodations?

5) If you did make any changes, did you try to implement them early in
the season (for muscle memory purposes), or immediatly before/during
the race?

As others have said, don't change *anything* before a long ride.
Training for such rides is more than simply preparing your body, it also
teaches you what works for clothing, food, bike setup, etc. Most people
can finish a double without much preparation, but it can be an
unnecessary suffer-fest. Do a few rides in the 120-150 mi range before
doing that 206, then you should be able to finish comfortably.

Thank y'all for the responses, I appreciate all of the insights -
especially the recommendation for the core exercises. As for the lower
back pain, perhaps I'm just getting older, but I wind up with lower
back pain doing nearly anything for over 3-4 hours (the joys of a
sedentary desk jockey) ;-)

I have a number of friends who have done the ride in the past, and
highly recommend it - even those who suffered through last year's
iteration (read the horror stories on the website). If any of y'all
are from the mountain west, I would pass their recommendations on to
you.

SYJ

In article ops6ww7i0txtdc4g@ivarsnotebook,
"Ivar Hesselager" wrote:

With greatly changing temperatures and winds your dressing will be of
great importance. This is imho the field where some of the most
costly mistakes are made. Passing a mountain you can freeze and boil
if your clothes are not right.So if you lack experience it would be
wise to investigate and test the clothes that you want to use on The
Day - as early as possible.

Ivar makes a good point. In my experience, the things that make long
distance rides good or bad are comfort issues. Hands, butt and feet are
three obvious ones.

Less obvious is one's neck and upper back which can become very sore
from craning your neck to see where you are going and can lead to
Shermer neck, numb or weak hands, etc. Higher bars reduce this problem.
I usually wear cycling gloves, although with the bars high enough those
are less necessary. Most events require a helmet, so buy a light one.

Saddles are very personal choices. I prefer Brooks Pros, but many
people find Brooks saddles less than satisfactory while many find them
wonderful. One r.b.t personality referred to them as "ass hatchets," a
phrase sure to stick with one. They are expensive, take some
maintenance and don't care to be ridden in the rain without protection.
Of course, there are many plastic saddles for sale that are as expensive
or more expensive than most Brooks saddles. I always liked the original
Selle San Marco Rolls saddle.

We haven't talked much about feet in this discussion. Shoes that fit
well are an obvious issue. The sole should be stiff enough that you
don't feel like you are standing on walnuts on the pedals. Your feet
may swell during the ride and your shoes should be conveniently
adjustable to accommodate this (I've never hads a problem with this, but
know many people who have at events like Paris-Brest-Paris which is 750
miles in under 90 hours). I find that wool cycling socks, like
SmartWool's, eliminate "hot spots" and contribute greatly to comfort.
The tops of the socks should not be tight as this can contribute to
Achilles tendinitis.

Ivar's point about temperature regulation is a key one. Experiment with
clothing at different temperatures and different conditions, and write
down your findings. You should be able to generate a table of what
clothing works well for you in what conditions pretty easily; you can
then look at the weather you'll be dealing with on the ride and make
good choices. I find that very breathable materials are best. I prefer
wool jerseys or knit synthetic jerseys as these breathe better than
woven synthetic ones. I don't like wool shorts, though, and use regular
cycling shorts. I prefer older Pearl Izumis with pretty thin
chamois(es) as thicker ones kind of bunch up. The current PI pads are
adequate but a little too thick for my tastes.

For long distance rides I use a moderately large saddlebag. In my case,
a Rivendell Banana Bag. It's big enough for tools, tubes, a few snacks
and some clothing (rain jacket lashed onto the outside with a couple of
toe straps). That increases my ability to cope with changing weather
conditions quickly. I usually carry arm and knee warmers on rides that
may go into the evening hours, and a cycling cap for rain or intense
sun. Chapstick with sun screen in it, a small bottle of sun screen, a
small bottle of chamois lube (labeled to tell them apart). I wear
glasses, so I have some clip-on sunglasses and bring along the case for
the clip-ons.

If the ride may go into the evening hours, I bring a set of lights. Two
of my bikes have generator headlights and I would be using one of those
for long distance rides anyway, so my lights are already along for the
ride. For my other bikes I have some clip on headlights and taillights.
These have improved quite a bit in the last few years.

I've pretty much convinced myself to do Lotoja this year
(http://www.lotojaclassic.com/), but I have a few concerns about bike
setup. Thus far, my longest single day ride has been slightly over 100
miles, made with no changes to position. I ended up with some expected
aches and pains, but no major trauma. For those who have done Lotoja
(or a similar ride/race) I'm curious about the following:

1) Currently, my bar sits about 2" below my saddle - a position that
works just fine over 3-4 hours (with some lower back pain coming into
the picture after that). Would you recommend a more upright position?

Drop from saddle to bar scales, meaning that, on a larger bike, a drop of 2"
might not be much at all, while on a smaller bike, it could be pretty
extreme. And that's before you even consider the your-mileage-may-vary
aspect of things. So if you've got a fairly large frame, we can make a
different assumption (that it's not much of a drop) than if you have a
smaller one.

2) Is chamois cream really that helpful (given modern seamless
synthetic chamois)?

Entirely dependent upon the individual. I've never ever had to use it; never
felt like I needed to. But I've got customers who swear by it. My guess is
that they didn't grow up on real leather chamois cycling shorts like I did.
I could probably sit on a bed of nails at this point and not be bothered by
it.

3) What kind of gearing would you recommend (applies primarily to
those who suffered through the most recent edition, as the course was
changed)?

Again, an individual thing, but in general, with modern equipment you can go
very wide without losing anything (except $$$, of course), so why not be
prepared for anything? A triple arrangement could be set up with 52/42/30
and an 11-32 or even 11-34 in back. Rarely could someone find a need for
either higher or lower gears than that on a supported ride.

4) Did you make any other accomodations?

Bring Advil.

5) If you did make any changes, did you try to implement them early in
the season (for muscle memory purposes), or immediately before/during
the race?

I'm a bike shop owner, so my usual thing is to get a brand new bike or
whatever and do its very first ride on a century the next morning. Great for
adrenalin rush, bad for any funny little issues that might come up. Use
common sense. But don't worry too much about muscle memory, in my humble
opinion. If you change your riding style into something that you don't
really enjoy, you're likely to do more damage than good. So much of any
physical effort is mental that your state of mind is the most-important
thing to take care of.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Per Tim McNamara:
Shermer neck

?
--
PeteCresswell