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#31
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped My days of tinkering with the car every other weekend have ended, and I'm glad. -- - Frank Krygowski Gives more time to ride a bicycle. Cheers |
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#32
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James wrote: On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first check is at 10,000 km. And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm. Yes. A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings. I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins. But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the norm. On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. cheers, John B. That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new. It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take? With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year. There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken. There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#33
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On 2/1/19 5:24 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. I have an electric router. It is quite an expensive unit for the home handyman. I have used it quite a lot to make kitchen cupboard doors and so on. It died. I initially thought the brushes were worn out, but from inspection realised that the armature was faulty. I priced a new router and having the armature rewound, and to my surprise the armature rewind and two new bearings was about 1/5 the price of a new unit. -- JS |
#34
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James wrote: On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first check is at 10,000 km. And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm. Yes. A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings. I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins. But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the norm. On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. cheers, John B. That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new. It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take? With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year. There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken. There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out. I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my basement right now. Other family members had their bikes on a low-hanging rear rack when it was hit hard by freeway road debris, hard enough to actually bend the rack. This happened during a vacation where they planned to use the bikes, so they stopped in a bike shop, where they were told to just buy new wheels. And that may be correct; but I'm going to first see if I can pop them straight. Or at least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the useful bits. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#35
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 07:53:08 +1100, James
wrote: On 2/1/19 5:24 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. I have an electric router. It is quite an expensive unit for the home handyman. I have used it quite a lot to make kitchen cupboard doors and so on. It died. I initially thought the brushes were worn out, but from inspection realised that the armature was faulty. I priced a new router and having the armature rewound, and to my surprise the armature rewind and two new bearings was about 1/5 the price of a new unit. Wages must have been pretty low at the time as removing the old windings and rewinding a small armature is a fiddly job and would probably take more than one day. cheers, John B. |
#36
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 17:57:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James wrote: On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first check is at 10,000 km. And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm. Yes. A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings. I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins. But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the norm. On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. cheers, John B. That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new. It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take? With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year. There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken. There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out. I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my basement right now. Other family members had their bikes on a low-hanging rear rack when it was hit hard by freeway road debris, hard enough to actually bend the rack. This happened during a vacation where they planned to use the bikes, so they stopped in a bike shop, where they were told to just buy new wheels. And that may be correct; but I'm going to first see if I can pop them straight. Or at least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the useful bits. The local bike wholesalers here no longer import or sell wheel parts. When I enquired they told me that there was no market for wheel parts now and that everyone bought complete wheels. cheers, John B. |
#37
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On 1/2/2019 4:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James wrote: On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first check is at 10,000 km. And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm. Yes. A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings. I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins. But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the norm. On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. cheers, John B. That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new. It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take? With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year. There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken. There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out. I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my basement right now. Other family members had their bikes on a low-hanging rear rack when it was hit hard by freeway road debris, hard enough to actually bend the rack. This happened during a vacation where they planned to use the bikes, so they stopped in a bike shop, where they were told to just buy new wheels. And that may be correct; but I'm going to first see if I can pop them straight. Or at least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the useful bits. Remove rubber, detension them two turns or so and see if they are basically fit. On the very low end of wheels, pressing it with both hands across one's knee and then tension/true can get it close enough to work. (un-taco procedure only useful outside of paid service) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#38
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On 1/2/2019 8:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 4:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James wrote: On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first check is at 10,000 km. And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm. Yes. A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings. I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins. But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the norm. On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the most economic solution. cheers, John B. That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new. It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take? With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year. There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken. There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out. I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my basement right now. Other family members had their bikes on a low-hanging rear rack when it was hit hard by freeway road debris, hard enough to actually bend the rack. This happened during a vacation where they planned to use the bikes, so they stopped in a bike shop, where they were told to just buy new wheels. And that may be correct; but I'm going to first see if I can pop them straight. Or at least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the useful bits. Remove rubber, detension them two turns or so and see if they are basically fit. On the very low end of wheels, pressing it with both hands across one's knee and then tension/true can get it close enough to work. (un-taco procedure only useful outside of paid service) I've popped a friends wheel back into reasonable shape on a ride. He was daydreaming and rode off the edge of the pavement and fell when we were many miles from home. I braced it at 12:00 on a tree, 6:00 on the ground, and pushed hard on 3:00 and 9:00. It popped back straight enough for him to ride it home, maybe with the front brake open. (I forget that detail.) In that case, I didn't detension anything, but if it makes the job easier, I can try that first with the ones in my basement. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#39
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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?
On Monday, December 31, 2018 at 1:47:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
I've got a Shimano FD-4503 and an RD-M771 off my bike at the moment. They have years of dirt, grease and generalized grime on them. What cleaning methods are safe for these and what should I avoid? I will take the jockey wheels off the rear derailleur, but in general, I'm not really keen on taking things apart any more than that. I use hot water and soap plus a good scrub brush for cleaning deraillers. I once put one into a tub of degreaser and the degreaser turned the shiny silver aluminium ally into a dull silver-grey colour that could not be removed. Cheers |
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