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How to clean Shimano derailleurs?



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 2nd 19, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:48:48 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped
My days of tinkering with the car every other weekend have ended, and
I'm glad.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Gives more time to ride a bicycle.

Cheers
Ads
  #32  
Old January 2nd 19, 08:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James

wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them
the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease
came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new
car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.

And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace
an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm"
on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with
three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings
couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you
need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book
and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual
bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F.
they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts
outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't
fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it
will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe
1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it
would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one.
So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it
away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.


That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components
too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or
manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's
cheaper to buy it new.


It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his
threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and
"You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad
spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower
every year.



There are wheels which are quick to repair after
chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken.

There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many
other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track,
bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #33  
Old January 2nd 19, 09:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,153
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 2/1/19 5:24 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.


I have an electric router. It is quite an expensive unit for the home
handyman. I have used it quite a lot to make kitchen cupboard doors and
so on. It died. I initially thought the brushes were worn out, but
from inspection realised that the armature was faulty. I priced a new
router and having the armature rewound, and to my surprise the armature
rewind and two new bearings was about 1/5 the price of a new unit.

--
JS
  #34  
Old January 2nd 19, 11:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James

wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them
the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease
came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new
car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.

And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace
an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm"
on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with
three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings
couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you
need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book
and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual
bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F.
they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts
outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't
fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it
will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe
1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it
would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one.
So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it
away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components
too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or
manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's
cheaper to buy it new.


It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his
threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and
"You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad
spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower
every year.



There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear
with 9 spokes scored and a few broken.

There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues
(uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that
they are just tossed out.


I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my basement right
now. Other family members had their bikes on a low-hanging rear rack
when it was hit hard by freeway road debris, hard enough to actually
bend the rack.

This happened during a vacation where they planned to use the bikes, so
they stopped in a bike shop, where they were told to just buy new
wheels. And that may be correct; but I'm going to first see if I can pop
them straight. Or at least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the
useful bits.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #35  
Old January 3rd 19, 01:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 07:53:08 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/1/19 5:24 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.


I have an electric router. It is quite an expensive unit for the home
handyman. I have used it quite a lot to make kitchen cupboard doors and
so on. It died. I initially thought the brushes were worn out, but
from inspection realised that the armature was faulty. I priced a new
router and having the armature rewound, and to my surprise the armature
rewind and two new bearings was about 1/5 the price of a new unit.


Wages must have been pretty low at the time as removing the old
windings and rewinding a small armature is a fiddly job and would
probably take more than one day.

cheers,

John B.


  #36  
Old January 3rd 19, 01:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 17:57:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James

wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them
the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease
came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new
car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.

And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace
an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm"
on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with
three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings
couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you
need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book
and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual
bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F.
they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts
outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't
fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it
will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe
1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it
would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one.
So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it
away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components
too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or
manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's
cheaper to buy it new.

It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his
threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and
"You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad
spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower
every year.



There are wheels which are quick to repair after chain-behind-low-gear
with 9 spokes scored and a few broken.

There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many other issues
(uneven tension, dents, worn brake track, bearing issues and so on) that
they are just tossed out.


I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my basement right
now. Other family members had their bikes on a low-hanging rear rack
when it was hit hard by freeway road debris, hard enough to actually
bend the rack.

This happened during a vacation where they planned to use the bikes, so
they stopped in a bike shop, where they were told to just buy new
wheels. And that may be correct; but I'm going to first see if I can pop
them straight. Or at least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the
useful bits.


The local bike wholesalers here no longer import or sell wheel parts.
When I enquired they told me that there was no market for wheel parts
now and that everyone bought complete wheels.

cheers,

John B.


  #37  
Old January 3rd 19, 02:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 1/2/2019 4:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James

wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them
the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease
came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new
car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.

And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace
an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm"
on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with
three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings
couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you
need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book
and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual
bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F.
they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts
outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't
fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it
will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe
1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it
would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one.
So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it
away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components
too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or
manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's
cheaper to buy it new.

It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his
threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and
"You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad
spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower
every year.



There are wheels which are quick to repair after
chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken.

There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many
other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track,
bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out.


I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my
basement right now. Other family members had their bikes on
a low-hanging rear rack when it was hit hard by freeway road
debris, hard enough to actually bend the rack.

This happened during a vacation where they planned to use
the bikes, so they stopped in a bike shop, where they were
told to just buy new wheels. And that may be correct; but
I'm going to first see if I can pop them straight. Or at
least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the useful
bits.



Remove rubber, detension them two turns or so and see if
they are basically fit. On the very low end of wheels,
pressing it with both hands across one's knee and then
tension/true can get it close enough to work. (un-taco
procedure only useful outside of paid service)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #38  
Old January 3rd 19, 02:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 1/2/2019 8:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 4:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 2:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/2/2019 9:48 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B.
Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James

wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them
the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease
came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new
car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.

And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace
an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm"
on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with
three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings
couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you
need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book
and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual
bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F.
they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts
outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't
fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it
will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe
1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it
would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one.
So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it
away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components
too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or
manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's
cheaper to buy it new.

It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his
threshold between "Sure, we can replace those spokes" and
"You might as well just buy a new wheel." How many bad
spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower
every year.



There are wheels which are quick to repair after
chain-behind-low-gear with 9 spokes scored and a few broken.

There are other wheels with one broken spoke but so many
other issues (uneven tension, dents, worn brake track,
bearing issues and so on) that they are just tossed out.


I've got two pretty new potato-chipped rear wheels in my
basement right now. Other family members had their bikes on
a low-hanging rear rack when it was hit hard by freeway road
debris, hard enough to actually bend the rack.

This happened during a vacation where they planned to use
the bikes, so they stopped in a bike shop, where they were
told to just buy new wheels. And that may be correct; but
I'm going to first see if I can pop them straight. Or at
least straight-ish. If not, well, I get to keep the useful
bits.



Remove rubber, detension them two turns or so and see if they are
basically fit. On the very low end of wheels, pressing it with both
hands across one's knee and then tension/true can get it close enough to
work. (un-taco procedure only useful outside of paid service)


I've popped a friends wheel back into reasonable shape on a ride. He was
daydreaming and rode off the edge of the pavement and fell when we were
many miles from home. I braced it at 12:00 on a tree, 6:00 on the
ground, and pushed hard on 3:00 and 9:00. It popped back straight enough
for him to ride it home, maybe with the front brake open. (I forget that
detail.)

In that case, I didn't detension anything, but if it makes the job
easier, I can try that first with the ones in my basement.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #39  
Old January 3rd 19, 03:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On Monday, December 31, 2018 at 1:47:01 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
I've got a Shimano FD-4503 and an RD-M771 off my bike at the moment. They
have years of dirt, grease and generalized grime on them. What cleaning
methods are safe for these and what should I avoid? I will take the jockey
wheels off the rear derailleur, but in general, I'm not really keen on
taking things apart any more than that.


I use hot water and soap plus a good scrub brush for cleaning deraillers. I once put one into a tub of degreaser and the degreaser turned the shiny silver aluminium ally into a dull silver-grey colour that could not be removed.

Cheers
 




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