Murder Charge for Killing Cyclist

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles"

wrote in part:

The problem is that a large number of people with revoked licenses (most
often for DUIs) continue to drive, and the penalty for getting caught doing
so is apparently not enough to cause them to reconsider.

---snip---

We need to have an extraordinarily effective discouragement to being caught
driving with a suspended license. Better yet would be a way to physically
prevent such people from driving, but how that could be accomplished is
beyond me. But once it's clear there are really serious ramifications to
being caught, we might see some change in behaviour.

You've hit the nail on the head, Mike. Unfortunately, at least in the area I am
most familiar with in this regard, even remotely meaningful sentences for
driving while suspended/revoked are virtually unheard of even though it is an
offense punishable by up to one year in the county jail.
Making maximum penalties stiffer may be good PR but if the standard punishment
is always the minimum PR is all it is. Some say that could be remedied by
legislating mandatory sentences. IME, that by itself won't work either because
when push comes to shove the judges that were imposing the slap on the wrist
sentences- no jail time and a $100 fine- will simply refuse to convict in a
bench trial. Some will say that is impossible but it's not. Ask any trial
lawyer what the most dangerous phrase in a courtroom is and he/she will tell
you, "Judge, you can't do that!"
I can only imagine two things having a real impact. People smarter than me may
have more or better ideas but mine a
1- Immediately confiscate any vehicle that a suspended/revoked driver is
driving when arrested. I don't mean just tow it, I mean confiscate it under an
asset forfeiture law written just like the asset forfeiture laws applied to
narcotics violators in most States that basically boil down to, "We take it.
You want it back. You hire an attorney to try to get your car back 6 months to
a year later when the civil case finally comes up on the court calendar."
2- Organize court watchers similiar to those MADD and others used to get DUI to
be taken seriously by the courts and publish their observations. Judges in the
US are either elected politicians or they are appointed by elected politicians.
Nothing gets a politician's attention faster than unfavorable publicity.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bill Baka wrote:

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:22:46 GMT, Mike Jacoubowsky
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Unfortunately I remember that incident. She was about 19 years old and
killed 4 cyclists while rummaging on the passenger side floor for a CD.
She managed to say "I'm sorry.".
She also got the token slap on the wrist if I remember correctly.
Check the archives at the San Jose Mercury news.
Bill Baka


IIRC she did time in jail, and can't ever have a drivers license again.

Mike

28 Sep 2004 03:16:33 GMT,
,
(Hunrobe) wrote, in part:

I can only imagine two things having a real impact. People smarter than me may
have more or better ideas but mine a
1- Immediately confiscate any vehicle that a suspended/revoked driver is
driving when arrested. I don't mean just tow it, I mean confiscate it under an
asset forfeiture law written just like the asset forfeiture laws applied to
narcotics violators in most States that basically boil down to, "We take it.
You want it back. You hire an attorney to try to get your car back 6 months to
a year later when the civil case finally comes up on the court calendar."
2- Organize court watchers similiar to those MADD and others used to get DUI to
be taken seriously by the courts and publish their observations. Judges in the
US are either elected politicians or they are appointed by elected politicians.
Nothing gets a politician's attention faster than unfavorable publicity.

I'll suggest a bracelet like sex offenders on parole are made to wear.
The most effective way would be for society to develop its conscience
so these recidivists are shunned, scorned and monitored like we do
with a pedophile. Instead the drivers are seen as victims when their
license is suspended. The courts treat them too gently by giving them
partial driving privileges. These meaningless sentences elevate the
status of those criminal killers at the expense of their dead victims.
--
zk

On 28 Sep 2004 03:16:33 GMT, (Hunrobe) wrote:

I can only imagine two things having a real impact. People smarter than me may
have more or better ideas but mine a
1- Immediately confiscate any vehicle that a suspended/revoked driver is
driving when arrested. I don't mean just tow it, I mean confiscate it under an
asset forfeiture law written just like the asset forfeiture laws applied to
narcotics violators in most States that basically boil down to, "We take it.
You want it back. You hire an attorney to try to get your car back 6 months to
a year later when the civil case finally comes up on the court calendar."
2- Organize court watchers similiar to those MADD and others used to get DUI to
be taken seriously by the courts and publish their observations. Judges in the
US are either elected politicians or they are appointed by elected politicians.
Nothing gets a politician's attention faster than unfavorable publicity.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

I like those ideas. Maybe add that the money from eventual sale of
those confiscated vehicles go to the victim(s) if any of anyone hit,
blah, blah.

Might offer some small leeway for a driver on suspended license in a
dire emergency sitch (driving pregnant wife to hospital?) gets some
slack. Dunno.

Good post. Here's hoping. Maybe when/if/as the bicycling culture gains
more foothold?

-B

On 28 Sep 2004 03:16:33 GMT, (Hunrobe) wrote:

1- Immediately confiscate any vehicle that a suspended/revoked driver is
driving when arrested.

2- Organize court watchers similiar to those MADD and others used to get DUI to
be taken seriously by the courts and publish their observations.

aol Good thoughts, Bob /aol

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:05:59 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction
Bicycles" wrote:

Perhaps public service spots on TV and in newspapers, featuring the latest
punishments given for DUI & related crimes? It wouldn't even have to list
names, just the community where they reside, what they did, and what the
sentence was.

A lot of places (like Annapolis, MD) post the judgements in the paper.
What you find is that the judges have their own opinion about how
serious DUI and DWI happen to be. Some enforce the law, others will
not find for the more serious crime when the person is facing real
penalties. And around here we have PBJ - probation before judgement,
which means that most first time offenders have no record if they
don't get caught during the PBJ time.

Until people 1) decide drunk driving is as serious as it is and 2)
follow what really happens in the court system and 3) kick out judges
and prosecuting attorneys that seem to fear that they will be next to
be caught drinking and driving (a reality in Annapolis), then you can
pass all the laws and do what else you will, and it will have no final
impact.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:02:16 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
wrote:

Until people 1) decide drunk driving is as serious as it is and 2)
follow what really happens in the court system and 3) kick out judges
and prosecuting attorneys that seem to fear that they will be next to
be caught drinking and driving (a reality in Annapolis), then you can
pass all the laws and do what else you will, and it will have no final
impact.

In the UK there is a default 12 month ban for drink-driving, and you
have to have some pretty extraordinary reason not to get banned.
Losing your job if you lose your license does not count (although it
does if you kill someone while sober).

You also get banned if you refuse to provide a specimen.

The result is that most people have stopped doing it, but the few who
haven't are more likely to fail to stop after a crash (which of course
can result in the victim dying, if nobody calls for help).

Overall the result has been positive, but as ever there are a few who
are selfish and arrogant and apparently think they are above the law.

One problem we share is that although the penalty for drink driving is
meaningful because it risks death, the penalty for actually causing
death is very often trivial. The average penalty for killing a
cyclist through negligence currently runs at a fine of £120-£200
(around $200-$350) and six points on your license; 12 is a ban under
"totting up", but if you hit the 12-point limit you will probably be
allowed to keep your license if losing it would cause exceptional
hardship. Such as having to walk two miles to school with your kids
(yes that's a real case).

As ever the problem is persuading a court made up of motorists to
convict and punish other motorists for things they have probably done
themselves.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" wrote:

We need to have an extraordinarily effective discouragement to being
caught driving with a suspended license. Better yet would be a way to
physically prevent such people from driving, but how that could be
accomplished is beyond me.

There's already technology to shut off cars if the owner misses a car
payment. Why not extend it to those with suspended licenses?

http://www.mikesejournal.com/archives/000570.html

Scott Mace

Mike McGuire writes:

Bill Baka wrote:

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:22:46 GMT, Mike Jacoubowsky
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Unfortunately I remember that incident. She was about 19 years old and
killed 4 cyclists while rummaging on the passenger side floor for a CD.
She managed to say "I'm sorry.".
She also got the token slap on the wrist if I remember correctly.
Check the archives at the San Jose Mercury news.
Bill Baka


IIRC she did time in jail, and can't ever have a drivers license again.

Mike

You don't RC. She almost did not get charged with anything at all. After
conviction, she got no jail time, fine, or loss of license for even a
single day.

--
John P. Serafin | This message not checked for viruses, etc. If your
jps at pobox com | system can't handle plain text, that's your problem.

There's already technology to shut off cars if the owner misses a car
payment. Why not extend it to those with suspended licenses?

http://www.mikesejournal.com/archives/000570.html

Trouble is, the drunk driver often has access to more than one car.

Maybe we need something that locks the drunk driver into the car?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com